Tableeghi Jumat: the indirect cause of extremism and terrorism

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Friend/EmKhan .....surprisingly you actually bring up a good poiint.

In the 1980's the CIA helped create the Taliban Ideology in Afghanistan by books designed and manufactured by a Thinktank in The University of Nebraska to motivate Taliban type of movement in Afghanistan. in a way to motivate and support terrorist activity

I wonder what Badlun has to say in response to that?

[Badlun]

what you call terrorists/extremists, appears to be people who are following the teachings of the qu'ran, to the letter. or think they are.
in their minds they are fighting against infidels who are a danger to their religion and lifestyle. to do this, is from the teachings in the qu'ran and the role model of muhammad, the prophet, if i understand correctly.
so basically, you are against the teachings from the qu'ran, badlun.
calling people 'extremists' just because they are following the teachings from the qu'ran, seems hypocritical, for a so called muslim.

badlun, why don't you call the israelis or the americans 'extremists' who carry on about 'having god on their side' when attacking countries where the people do not have the equivalent in firepower, for their defense?

why don't you call muslims who adhere strictly to what they believe are their religious teachings, 'firm believers in islam' or a title that fits.

If Taliban are the ones who follow Quran in letter and spirit then we have to decide whether really Quran is followed by them in letter and spirit , if yes then either we all become Taliban to become the real followers of Quran or if we do not want to become Taliban then we have to reject Quran! Choice is yours.

Arabs should remember the days when they started their march from Mecca and Madina and occupied the then known world and now now they criticize USA or Israel. This is all balance of power and realism. At least US id not physically occupying foreign lands and Israel is the only model democracy in Middle East.

[Badlun]

Scimitar did a fine job showing the other arguments were fallacious. You are doing that thing again where you assume repitition of opinion makes it fact.

You have no business in forcibly suppressing these folks or anyone else for that matter when your hero is a known initiator of germ warfare to inflict havoc and terror on an innocent population.

The only try Scimitar did was to establish contacts of Tableeghis with Sufis.

[Badlun]

Badlun's problem is that his eyes and mind stop working when it comes to american and other so called advanced and educated states' terrorism. when their universities harbour terrorists and weapons of mass terror. remember he will never comment on this.

Please tell me where in US they harbour terrorists and weapons of mass terror?

[Badlun]

Friend/EmKhan .....surprisingly you actually bring up a good poiint.

In the 1980's the CIA helped create the Taliban Ideology in Afghanistan by books designed and manufactured by a Thinktank in The University of Nebraska to motivate Taliban type of movement in Afghanistan. in a way to motivate and support terrorist activity

I wonder what Badlun has to say in response to that?

This was for preparing Mujahedeen as a force against the former USSR not exactly Taliban. Yes Taliban is the product of that process. West made a Frankenstein monster but now they are killing this monster. We should support them if they recognize their faults of the past which was a necessary evil at the time to strengthen Mujahideen against a stronger enemy.

The end losers are we as we played in their hands. They will do whatever suit them at a given period of time but why we inflict injuries on ourselves by having groups like Taliban and Tableeghis.

[Friend]

Please tell me where in US they harbour terrorists and weapons of mass terror?

Well this is a well known fact. They have bombed japan with the eeapons of mass destrucyion. they have been killing iraqis for the last 10 years and the same in Afghanistan. and they invade where ever they want.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This was for preparing Mujahedeen as a force against the former USSR not exactly Taliban. Yes Taliban is the product of that process. West made a Frankenstein monster but now they are killing this monster. We should support them if they recognize their faults of the past which was a necessary evil at the time to strengthen Mujahideen against a stronger enemy.

The end losers are we as we played in their hands. They will do whatever suit them at a given period of time but why we inflict injuries on ourselves by having groups like Taliban and Tableeghis.

The Taliban used the same books which the University of Nebraska created in their Madaris. Why does the west have to fight a "necessary evil" at our expense in the first place? They should have fought their own wars instead of using us. We inflict injury on ourselves; for the benefit of Western Imperialists; why should we keep doing that if that? if they betrayed us before, then they will betray us again. It seems that supporting them is for people who are their slaves and want them to create another Frankenstein; why should we always be their pawns and then why do we always have to take the blame when they made the frankenstein for us?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Please tell me where in US they harbour terrorists and weapons of mass terror?

America is the only country to use Nuclear Weapons

[faye]

If Taliban are the ones who follow Quran in letter and spirit then we have to decide whether really Quran is followed by them in letter and spirit , if yes then either we all become Taliban to become the real followers of Quran or if we do not want to become Taliban then we have to reject Quran! Choice is yours.

Arabs should remember the days when they started their march from Mecca and Madina and occupied the then known world and now now they criticize USA or Israel. This is all balance of power and realism. At least US id not physically occupying foreign lands and Israel is the only model democracy in Middle East.

well, do the taliban and tableeghi jumat, follow the qu'ran to the letter or not? you are the muslim, so how do the people you classify as extremists, differ from the teachings of the qu'ran, in their belief that they are at war against the enemy of islam?


today is today, and the west claims to be developed, advanced, civilized and fair, as opposed to barbaric and backward.

your blind adulation for hypocrites like america, israel and western interventionists, appears to show that you are lacking an overall education or analytic capability, about the activities of these countries.

how is it democratic or not 'extremist', to be forcing democracy by bombing with uranium enhanced weapons, slaughtering masses of civilians, spilling toxic waste in afghanistan and iraq, taking control and manipulating and pressuring other countries to do what they will them to do?
surely advanced civilizations should be able to find more constructive and compassionate ways to work with the people of other lands.

lol..you think israels treatment of the palestinians is a role model for democracy?

[faye]

America is the only country to use Nuclear Weapons

i read that israel and england also use them.

[Badlun]

well, do the taliban and tableeghi jumat, follow the qu'ran to the letter or not? you are the muslim, so how do the people you classify as extremists, differ from the teachings of the qu'ran, in their belief that they are at war against the enemy of islam?


today is today, and the west claims to be developed, advanced, civilized and fair, as opposed to barbaric and backward.

your blind adulation for hypocrites like america, israel and western interventionists, appears to show that you are lacking an overall education or analytic capability, about the activities of these countries.

how is it democratic or not 'extremist', to be forcing democracy by bombing with uranium enhanced weapons, slaughtering masses of civilians, spilling toxic waste in afghanistan and iraq, taking control and manipulating and pressuring other countries to do what they will them to do?
surely advanced civilizations should be able to find more constructive and compassionate ways to work with the people of other lands.

lol..you think israels treatment of the palestinians is a role model for democracy?

This is the issue that Taliban and Tableeghi Jumaat both claim to follow Quran but both have different modus operandi. Both are not true as how these two totally different in their approaches can claim to follow Quran in letter and spirit. It means both are misusing or abusing Quran.

The injunctions of warfare in Quran have a context. You cannot apply Quranic verses like cut the infidels into pieces wherever you find them everywhere. If Taliban represent a aprt of Pashtun population, there are millions others who do not support Taliban and they are also Pashtuns and Muslims. Or only those who follow Taliban are the only true Muslims?

I see Pashtuns dieng for going to America. I want their own country to be like America and this is only possible if we learn from America and apply in our system the ways they have adopted for reaching the climax of development and prosperity. US being the only super power should be a role model for Pashtuns who are proud of their gallantry but practically have no power at all.

[faye]

now you are adhering to injunctions from the qu'ran. interesting.
so which injunctions are the 'extremists' not adhering to? this is what i am wanting you to explain to me, since you are the muslim who is making the negative claims against millions of other muslims.
chopping up infidels doesn't sound good to me or you but to those muslims who feel that they are being invaded and the muslim faith is under threat, it may do.
as a pacifist and a westerner, i do not like the idea that america and it's cohorts, are droneing other humans and polluting others with uranium munitions. many americans do not
like the behaviour of their own government and military, so why do you appear to find those actions acceptable?


if you have a love of afghanistan and pashtuns, you would desire for them to be much better than israel and america, since hegemony, hypocrisy and abuse around the world is not an attractive nor peace inducing action. they are only inspiring more resistance and hatred. this is apparently known by everyone but yourself.

america has some good points but it's bad points are outweighing those. thinking people in the western countries, do not imagine that our systems are perfect and cannot be improved upon.

why are you, accepting of such imperfection? you are badmouthing millions of muslims but adulating america and it's hegemony. i don't get you.

badlun, you very often fail to answer pointed questions.
some of your early posts led me to think you are intelligent but since you seem to be so ignorant and in denial, about great big negatives, of those you admire, i assume that you want to give people only half of an education and try to brainwash, with propaganda.

[Badlun]

I will try to reply to the point
1. I believe in Quran and only in those hadith which are not contradictory to Quran and are related to faith, worship and morality. I do not believe in hadith which stops women to be head of a state, forbid music or allow child marriages etc. I believe in all injunctions of Quran but with context and reinterpretation in the light of modern day developments. I cant literally believe in the verses of Quran where it tells to chop people into pieces. Yes there are moral instructions but these are for a army under a state not for individuals or groups like Taliban.

2. If any one among Pashtuns is given a choice where to immigrate then majority will choose US even not Saudi Arabia and forget about countries where we have so called Islamic system like Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Mali, Iran etc. Thats why I mention America. Israel is the only democracy in Middle East and far better than other Arab dictatorships. Israel is killing their opponents Palestinians but Syria is killing its own people.

3. I am intelligent on the level of the president of Afghanistan, the members of the parliament of Afghanistan , provincial governors and non Pashtun Northern Alliance as all of us agree on the NATO and US in Afghanistan. Yes I am not intelligent on the level of Taliban.

[Tjanaparh]

If I am not wrong Afghanistan was one of those countries that didn't harm any arround?! It was Afghanistan first to recognize the Soviet union, it was Afghanistan that US and SU used as the battlefield of their own ideas. How much problems the Talibs may have created, they are uncomparable to what does the NATO. Only because the NATO generals have been to university and know different languages, can speek sweet speeches, have women in governments that dress how they want... they are not more human, quiet opposite. At least a simple Talib does a bad deed in ignorANCE, A nato soilder does it with full knowledge feeling superior. Still no Talib came to Europe to resolve the problem of prostitution, girl traficking, minor abuse among politicians, legalization of marijuana....isn't legal prostitution against women right to be safe? still it exists in europe, still there are night clubs where the youth may get destroyed. Further wasn't it the west and the su who supported communist regimes, taliban and northern alliance, all one against the other in the same country? how can such governments be seen as friends?

What about israel, excuse me but democarcy isn't a measure of humanity. still palestinians remained humans and still iran is much more human than israel.

[faye]

didn't persians and afghans invade india?