Tableeghi Jumat: the indirect cause of extremism and terrorism

[Badlun]

I dont agree with the perception that tableeghyan are actual terrorists. They are harmless people as described by another ghamkhore brother. But there is another aspect to the jamat. They are attracting those people who do not want to work and live off the others earnings. They leave their childern and wives to fend for themselves with the wrong thinking that Allah will feed them. That Allah is going to mend their house if it ever needed repaires etc. This is wrong. Man is here to work and earn for himself and his family. In modern era childern need a lot of care and guidance for attaining education. They need to study at home when they return from school. Normally male childern cant be controlled by their mothers. They need fathers presence. We see in our villages that childern of those people who are away from home for economic or any other reason, tableegh etc, dont do well in studies and in lives.
Their concept of free rizq for every one is totally wrong and away from the teachings of Islam. A bird feed her siblings when they are hatched. They are trained in flying and searching food and catching prey. They are left when their parents are sure that they can fend for themselves. How can we say that a human child will be fed by Allah without earning for himself.
The sad part is that this phenomenan only exists in Pakhtoon society. I weep when I see pakhtoons roaming in Punjab with bedding on their backs, away from their childern and their jobs. We need to stand in their way and educate them that even the Holy Prophit PBUH did not leave his job for tableegh, what to talk of Sahaba and others. Please take care of your childer. Educate them to shoulder their responsibilities like a sparro does rather more than that as we are ashraful makhlooqat.

I totally agree with what you say except I will reiterate that this fatalism of tableeghyan produce terrorists and extremists. This is a new proposition and I think if knowledgable and sensitive people like you ponder over this connection of Tableeghis with extremism and terrorism you will reach to the conclusion that there is a connection between tableegh and extremism and terrorism.

Look around your village and you may definitely find a family which was memebr of tableegh and influenced by tableegh but now are memebrs of taliban or any other extremist group. The fact is that once Tableegh makes you religiously charged then the only way remains to fully express your emotion is extremism and terrorism.

[Badlun]

For discussion on Sufism, Osho and Sufism please join here

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/sufism-non-muslim-sufism-secular-sufism-35781/#post665107

[Badlun]

Some interesting excerpts which shows connection of Tableeghi Jumaat(TJ) and extremism/terrorism

The Tableeghi Terror Jamaat « AA@Counter Terrorism, Imperialism, Extremism and Bigotry

The Tableeghi Jamaat (TJ) or the Party of Preachers, a non-militant organization of practicing Muslims that claims to have never indulged in any militant or political activities as a matter of principle, is an Islamic missionary and revival movement founded in British India, as a response to Christian evangelists working among poor and poorly educated Muslims in British India. However, in recent years, concerns have risen about how much the organization has been infiltrated by jehadi elements belonging to banned militant and sectarian organizations which might be involved in using the TJ platform as a cover to promote their extremist agenda.

TJ’s Pakistan branch has now for quite some time been found to be involved in making clandestine efforts to aid jehadi elements and to promote their agenda. And the ISI connection of the Pakistan branch of Tableeghi Jamaat is already an open secret now. The 2007 three day annual congregation of the so-called party of preachers was attended by at least four former heads of the all powerful Inter Services Intelligence including Lt. Gen. (retd) Hameed Gul, Lt. Gen. (retd) Javed Nasir, Lt. Gen. (retd) Naseem Rana and Lt Gen Mahmood Ahmed.

Reputed to be the richest religious organization in Pakistan, it recruits hundreds of students in other countries and brings them to Pakistan at its own expense for studies in the religious seminaries. Growing out of the Deobandi school of Islam, the Tableeghi Jamaat stresses traditional Islamic practices linked to worship, dress and behavior as a path to personal improvement. Thus, it easily attracts troubled, impressionable young men and instills them with extreme religious conviction. While the Tableeghi Jamaat is nonviolent, the zealotry of its recruits might be proving easy for violent jehadi organizations to manipulate. Its missionary work, moreover, demands the TJ members to travel throughout the world, including between Pakistan and Western countries. Therefore, there is every possibility of some militant groups using it as a cover to travel.

According to western media reports based on the findings of their agencies, the Tableeghi Jamaat advocates an extreme interpretation of the Deobandi Islam, just like the Taliban and that many militant groups have infiltrated the Jamaat to gain a cover for obtaining visas and traveling abroad. Because of its being a relatively relaxed organisation, it is not difficult for militant organisations to infiltrate the TJ. Therefore, the western agencies believe it has radicalized to the point where it has emerged as a driving force of Islamic extremism and a major recruiting agency for the jehadi causes world wide. Following the 9/11 attacks, the Jamaat has increasingly attracted the interest of the US intelligence agencies which even describe it as the mother of all the major Pakistan-based jehadi organisations active not only in Central Asian Republics, Chechnya and Dagestan, but also in other parts of the world.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

For discussion on Sufism, Osho and Sufism please join here

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...81/#post665107

the discussion will continue both here and there.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The reason why Sufism and Tablighi Jama'at and Sufism cannot be separated is because Tablighi Jama'at are essentially promoting Sufi practices and represent the guidance of Sufi Shaikhs who motivate the movement. the Movement is rooted in a Sufi revivalism

In fact Wahhabis/Ahl Al Hadith are probably the most outspoken critics of Tablighi Jama'at on account of their affiliation with Sufism. Which rebuffs the claims that Tablighis represent extremism.

Tablighi Jamaat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahl-al-Hadith accuse Tablighi Jamaat of preaching many fabricated hadith and unbelievable stories of Sufi shaykhs narrated in their handbook Fazail e Aamaal. Among Ahl- al-hadith scholars notable critics are Professor Shaykh Ainul Bari of Kolkata Alia Madrasah, Grand Mufti Shaykh bin Baaz of Saudi Arabia and Shaykh Al Munajjid of Saudi Arabia.

[faye]

Tablighi Jamaat - Way of the Tabeen,Sahaba Ajmaeen,Sunnah and Quran. - YouTube

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The reason why Sufism and Tablighi Jama'at and Sufism cannot be separated is because Tablighi Jama'at are essentially promoting Sufi practices and represent the guidance of Sufi Shaikhs who motivate the movement. the Movement is rooted in a Sufi revivalism

In fact Wahhabis/Ahl Al Hadith are probably the most outspoken critics of Tablighi Jama'at on account of their affiliation with Sufism. Which rebuffs the claims that Tablighis represent extremism.

Tablighi Jamaat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is true and he is looking at it in a very unscientific way. Most Salafis condemn and have issues with Tablighis in the main because of their lack of advocacy for a violent response to what is seen as violence inflicted. His idiotic argument (most of them are idiotic still as they were before) is that he knows some extremists who were members of tablighi jamaat and then morphed into Talibs etc. The long war journal:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/multim...gh-Profile.pdf

Indicates Mangal Bagh was an ANP member at some point and numerous captured fighters were Westerners or converts. I am sure I could find 5 or six people's examples to cite who were similar, doing a simple google search. Does that automatically make said organization in line with Salafi wahaabism??? That would be absurd. :

http://www.rferl.org/content/pakista.../24800738.html

One of them ^ was so "western" he loved Boris Vallejo and tattood his art on his body.

Nor does he consider the confounder that the said extremists may already have been on the road to extremism and the tabligh members were just steps along the way where the said parties had little idea that they were involving themselves in a movement that they thought would bring them closer to their initial goal (but didnt). That is, the extremist was always an extremist irrespective of affiliations

Or the other possibility that there are infiltrators. The ANA of Afghanistan also has Taliban members that have come out to play in recent years.
This guy gave up the game a little bit ago where he said that he has some sort of Papa conflict with his dad. His dad makes his sister and mom dress conservatively and he obviously is in some juvenile rebellion phase.

At the end of the day his daddy conflict led him right into the lap of the pervert salmonella bio warfare using Osho who worked with his crazy biatch of a girl to try and kill many innocent people. Some Sufi that was.

[faye]

extremist oshoites, lol.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

extremist oshoites, lol.

Lol, you should read the sort of stuff Osho was proven to have done in Oregan. He and his mistress tried to poison the population with poop water.

[faye]

haha..i just read about it before that comment i made. i didn't know about that.
i always just thought rajneesh/osho is a fake, who initially stole ideas from krishnamurti, no guguism, to becoming a guru, after realising the benefits of controlling needy, naive, rich westerners.

[Badlun]

The reason why Sufism and Tablighi Jama'at and Sufism cannot be separated is because Tablighi Jama'at are essentially promoting Sufi practices and represent the guidance of Sufi Shaikhs who motivate the movement. the Movement is rooted in a Sufi revivalism

In fact Wahhabis/Ahl Al Hadith are probably the most outspoken critics of Tablighi Jama'at on account of their affiliation with Sufism. Which rebuffs the claims that Tablighis represent extremism.

Tablighi Jamaat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have mentioned above that some tableeghis especially the educated lot are influenced by the Deobandi school of Sufism and I have seen the book Shariat wa tareeqat of Ashraf Ali Thanvi with them but as a policy Tableeghi Jummat is not officially attached to any school of Sufism. They do consider Zikar as one of the 6 points but this is general zikar not a Sufi wazifa or some special words given by a Sufi Sheikh as practiced amongst Sufis.

Saudi Arabia do not allow them to preach in larger groups because of security reasons but one can see tableeghis in Saudi, other Arab/salafi countries and also I have met many Hanbali/Ahle Hadith Arabs and non Arab Ahle Hadith in Raiwand and other congregations of TJ. It is not the policy of Ahle Hadith to vocally oppose Tableeghis as they oppose Brelvis. Yes Tableeghis are opposed for their so called peaceful struggle but the essence of this thread is that they indirectly promoting extremism by making the society ultra conservative and obscurantist.

[Badlun]

This is true and he is looking at it in a very unscientific way. Most Salafis condemn and have issues with Tablighis in the main because of their lack of advocacy for a violent response to what is seen as violence inflicted. His idiotic argument (most of them are idiotic still as they were before) is that he knows some extremists who were members of tablighi jamaat and then morphed into Talibs etc. The long war journal:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/multim...gh-Profile.pdf

Indicates Mangal Bagh was an ANP member at some point and numerous captured fighters were Westerners or converts. I am sure I could find 5 or six people's examples to cite who were similar, doing a simple google search. Does that automatically make said organization in line with Salafi wahaabism??? That would be absurd. :

http://www.rferl.org/content/pakista.../24800738.html

One of them ^ was so "western" he loved Boris Vallejo and tattood his art on his body.

Nor does he consider the confounder that the said extremists may already have been on the road to extremism and the tabligh members were just steps along the way where the said parties had little idea that they were involving themselves in a movement that they thought would bring them closer to their initial goal (but didnt). That is, the extremist was always an extremist irrespective of affiliations

Or the other possibility that there are infiltrators. The ANA of Afghanistan also has Taliban members that have come out to play in recent years.

Joining of some Ex Tableeghis with Taliban is only one argument that I posed in my first post of this thread along with several other arguments which show why Tableeghis indirectly promote extremism and terrorism.

[faye]

what you call terrorists/extremists, appears to be people who are following the teachings of the qu'ran, to the letter. or think they are.
in their minds they are fighting against infidels who are a danger to their religion and lifestyle. to do this, is from the teachings in the qu'ran and the role model of muhammad, the prophet, if i understand correctly.
so basically, you are against the teachings from the qu'ran, badlun.
calling people 'extremists' just because they are following the teachings from the qu'ran, seems hypocritical, for a so called muslim.

badlun, why don't you call the israelis or the americans 'extremists' who carry on about 'having god on their side' when attacking countries where the people do not have the equivalent in firepower, for their defense?

why don't you call muslims who adhere strictly to what they believe are their religious teachings, 'firm believers in islam' or a title that fits.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Joining of some Ex Tableeghis with Taliban is only one argument that I posed in my first post of this thread along with several other arguments which show why Tableeghis indirectly promote extremism and terrorism.

Scimitar did a fine job showing the other arguments were fallacious. You are doing that thing again where you assume repitition of opinion makes it fact.

You have no business in forcibly suppressing these folks or anyone else for that matter when your hero is a known initiator of germ warfare to inflict havoc and terror on an innocent population.

[Friend]

Badlun's problem is that his eyes and mind stop working when it comes to american and other so called advanced and educated states' terrorism. when their universities harbour terrorists and weapons of mass terror. remember he will never comment on this.