Tableeghi Jumat: the indirect cause of extremism and terrorism

[faye]

2. Thats why I mention America. Israel is the only democracy in Middle East and far better than other Arab dictatorships. Israel is killing their opponents Palestinians but Syria is killing its own people.

3. I am intelligent on the level of the president of Afghanistan, the members of the parliament of Afghanistan , provincial governors and non Pashtun Northern Alliance as all of us agree on the NATO and US in Afghanistan. Yes I am not intelligent on the level of Taliban.

i read, that occupied people, legally, have the right to resist. so palestinians also, are fighting against their opponents. but you appear to think they have no rights and should just 'suck up' their imprisonment and persecution, by israel, whilst israelis continue to steal their land.
from my understanding, in international law, it is illegal to continue to steal the palestinian land.


as a sufi, you must then have compassion and understanding of those like the taliban, and 'extremists', who you appear to be inferring have a lower level of intelligence.
the level of intelligence i am referring to, is acknowledgement of both sides of the coin. the negative as well as the positive. this, to me, is true education and full usage of ones intelligence.

[Badlun]

If I am not wrong Afghanistan was one of those countries that didn't harm any arround?! It was Afghanistan first to recognize the Soviet union, it was Afghanistan that US and SU used as the battlefield of their own ideas. How much problems the Talibs may have created, they are uncomparable to what does the NATO. Only because the NATO generals have been to university and know different languages, can speek sweet speeches, have women in governments that dress how they want... they are not more human, quiet opposite. At least a simple Talib does a bad deed in ignorANCE, A nato soilder does it with full knowledge feeling superior. Still no Talib came to Europe to resolve the problem of prostitution, girl traficking, minor abuse among politicians, legalization of marijuana....isn't legal prostitution against women right to be safe? still it exists in europe, still there are night clubs where the youth may get destroyed. Further wasn't it the west and the su who supported communist regimes, taliban and northern alliance, all one against the other in the same country? how can such governments be seen as friends?

What about israel, excuse me but democarcy isn't a measure of humanity. still palestinians remained humans and still iran is much more human than israel.

Afghans in past did invade other countries including Iran and India. Only one Mahmood Ghaznavi invaded India 17 times. Afghans ruled India for many centuries and killed millions of innocent Indians. S you are not right that Afghansitan did not harm any one.

Recently Taliban gave refuge to Osama and by his becoming stronger in Afghanistan Taliban harmed the whole world. Afghanistan is the biggest producer of drugs especially heroine and thus harming the world.

The evils in the Western society cannot be pardoned. Excess of every thing is bad including alcohol and other menaces. But I am unable to understand the fact that these people drink alcohol, keep girl friends, prostitution is rampant but in spite of all this they are developed and all of us want to live in this society while in our society we may not drink(although people there do drink, take drugs, prostitutes are every where but secretly) but still least developed. Religion is strong but corruption is rampant.

Tableeghi Jumaat is active but murders, other heinous crimes and social evils are norms of the day.Go to the graveyard of any Pashtun village and you may find corpses of many new born babies thrown as born with extra matrimonial relations. Wives and daughters of many Pashtuns working abroad for years and years or on tableeghi missions have illicit relations.

In the west people enjoy a night party but in the morning they are regular, punctual and dutiful in their offices. In our part of the world people go on tableegh and leave their offices unattended. No body is sincere with his nation and country. We need to learn good things from the developed world and shun their evils.

[faye]

you make a lot of claims, that you say are from personal experience, which are difficult to refute but to now be putting the blame on tagleeghi jumaat, for not being the government and police of an area, is ridiculous.
no matter what ideology is in place, human beings are liable to do bad things.

the west became wealthy through colonisation, thereby theft of land and resources.
any developing country that starts to get ahead, are either interfered with politically or parasitic companies/multinationals move in to continue bleeding the poor and continuing to increase the wealthy countries prosperity.
a lot of money is also made from wars.

the golden era of islam was also because they gained wealth from invasions and looting.

you think it is possible to become westernised and for muslims to then not be influenced by the 'evils' of the west? dream on.

[Badlun]

Development, modernity, science, technology, modern education, prosperity if come with some evils is better than a life controlled by Tableeghi Jumaat where all fun, music, dance, festivities, festivals, fine arts, paintings, poetry, sculpture, even radio, tv and print media are prohibited.

[faye]

i like fun and artistic culture too, but obviously, if people choose through their own free will to become tableeghi, then that is what they, as individuals want.
do you never consider that extremes on the planet might balance each other out? that extreme in religion is balancing out the extreme in depravity and overindulgence in materialism.

i thought that sufi means wool cloth and is connected to renunciation of love of the material world. also, an acceptance that all religions can lead to god.

[Badlun]

Yes I believe in free will but do you think we should let drugs addict to use their free will? Do we let killers to go on a rampage of serial murders? Do we let Tableeghis to radicalize society and ban even tvs and internet especially in Pashtunland? As we need awareness campaigns against environmental hazards similarly we need to create awareness against obscurantists like Tableeghis.

I follow sufism explained by Osho and other sufis ,not asceticism as practiced by some sufis who renounce matter and adopts renunciation of world and take refuge in forests in their woolen clothes. We may strike a balance in mundane and spiritual aspects of life.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Neither you nor Osho are credible Sufis; so you're following con-artist whose goal is to exploit others.

Real Sufism is spiritual' Materialism is an absence of Spiritualism; so Osho cannot be a Sufi and nor can you.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Neither you nor Osho are credible Sufis; so you're following con-artist whose goal is to exploit others.

Real Sufism is spiritual' Materialism is an absence of Spiritualism; so Osho cannot be a Sufi and nor can you.

Osho was caught up in a confirmed scandal on the West Coast where his Waco style group was caught red handed trying to poison the towns people. His lover Sheela and he were charged with trying to poison the townspeople to influence local voting patterns. They were utilizing salmonella as biowarfare. And who confirmed this? Well, the Americans. So our local Osho ("Badlun") has to make up his mind regarding this logical conundrum of sorts. After all, either the American justice system is flawed and did to Osho what the Romans and Sanhedrin did to Christ indicating they have issues or Osho is a freak. Its the Lady or the Tiger.

[faye]

Yes I believe in free will but do you think we should let drugs addict to use their free will? Do we let killers to go on a rampage of serial murders? Do we let Tableeghis to radicalize society and ban even tvs and internet especially in Pashtunland? As we need awareness campaigns against environmental hazards similarly we need to create awareness against obscurantists like Tableeghis.

there are christian groups that also ban tv's etc. if some tableeghs are becoming taliban, it is not necessarily the tableeghs fault. you have to look at all the situation surrounding where this is happening.
are they becoming taliban or sucide bombers in other parts of the world?

your view about tableeghis can now be known internationally, as this thread comes up when googling for info on tableeghi jumat.

i agree that education is necessary and a good thing but pakistanis also have a bit of a name for accessing an outstanding amount of porn on the internet, including weirdo porn, according to google stats.
so, perhaps you need to be protesting for a ban on these porn sites too.

[Badlun]

there are christian groups that also ban tv's etc. if some tableeghs are becoming taliban, it is not necessarily the tableeghs fault. you have to look at all the situation surrounding where this is happening.
are they becoming taliban or sucide bombers in other parts of the world?

your view about tableeghis can now be known internationally, as this thread comes up when googling for info on tableeghi jumat.

i agree that education is necessary and a good thing but pakistanis also have a bit of a name for accessing an outstanding amount of porn on the internet, including weirdo porn, according to google stats.
so, perhaps you need to be protesting for a ban on these porn sites too.

Any body who is against creativity and art should be condemned. Tableeeghi jumaat is my target because my focus is on extremism and terrorism especially in Pashtun areas. Tabeeghi Jumaat is very strong in Pashtunland. As earlier said, many people consider Tableeghis to be an innocent group of preachers, but they are the worst enemy of modernism, democracy, modern education, science, secularism and
promote extremism, puritanism, fatalism and work against creativity and art.

Look here, how an artist became a Mullah by joining Tableeghi Jumaat.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1122625/jjs-path-from-pop-pioneer-to-tableeghi-jamaat

[jankhan]

Badlun wror, He Junaid is still an artist more active, more improved, more happy and satisfied than before. he is more creative and his network is more widened. If you listen to his interviews he always complained about one thing that he never found peace before coming to practice islamic teachings and studying. After studying and practising he found what he was looking for.
Then what is your problem ?

[Smarty]

[MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION] you are very bigoted. There must be some check on tablighi activities or they must be asked to improve and reform their organization. But you cant generalize about them.
If you ask me, i am more concerned about their centre being in lahore, raiwind and there leaders, top mullahs being punjabis, our islam shouldnt be controlled from punjab. There are chances that tablighi jamaat might have backing from punjabi establishment who want pashtuns to be pacifists and gandhis

[asad71]

1.Islam has survived 1,500 years,and Ma'asha Allah, prospers because, among other reasons, it is not an exclusive creed. Islam tolerates various sects, sub-sects, religious schools, etc provided the Kaleema / fundamentals of the faith are followed.

2. The other factor to be noted is the context/premises. Islam, globally and at various periods in history and in various societies, has faced multifarious hurdles and experiences. I suppose there are built-in mechanisms in our faith to muster ourselves adequately to confront/overcome these.

[Badlun]

Badlun wror, He Junaid is still an artist more active, more improved, more happy and satisfied than before. he is more creative and his network is more widened. If you listen to his interviews he always complained about one thing that he never found peace before coming to practice islamic teachings and studying. After studying and practising he found what he was looking for.
Then what is your problem ?

My dear brother

How Junaid can become more active as Artist when art, music, dance etc are haram in Islam(ism). He is now only dress designer nothing else. Few times he recites Naats but gone are the days of his creativity, art, music, songs, concerts , musical gatherings TV shows.

He may be personally happy as a drug addict or a drunkard is also happy but Tableegh deprived millions of people of his art, music, songs and concerts. Now he is talking of hell fires and no more that joy can be felt when he used to sing. Now he is a bearded Mullah and designer nothing else. Islamism kills are your potential capacities as an artist.

[jankhan]

My dear brother

How Junaid can become more active as Artist when art, music, dance etc are haram in Islam(ism). He is now only dress designer nothing else. Few times he recites Naats but gone are the days of his creativity, art, music, songs, concerts , musical gatherings TV shows.

He may be personally happy as a drug addict or a drunkard is also happy but Tableegh deprived millions of people of his art, music, songs and concerts. Now he is talking of hell fires and no more that joy can be felt when he used to sing. Now he is a bearded Mullah and designer nothing else. Islamism kills are your potential capacities as an artist.

Brother, Art does not only mean to sing or have concerts or tv shows. dress designing is also an art, he is still in tv shows but in different form. Your definition of art is different than what it actually is. Badlun wror, come out of your extreme views of this world and the people. you will live a happy life. jeo aur jeeney do.