What do Pakistani Pashtuns mean when they say Lar aw bar yaw Pakhtun

[Toramana]

It doesn't change the fact that many Pashtuns struggled for this entity and the majority of Pashtuns accept it as their home. Why ignore that?

Instead of leading the Afghans on in their idiocy with dreams of re-unification you should tell them about what the majority of Pashtuns think and also tell them you are a traitor to your own people in the process.

It may be more or less disappointing for you but the idiocy of Pashtun/Afghan unification makes "a bit" more sense than the collossal stupidity called Pakistan arbitrarily cobbled up from unwilling ethnic groups so to serve West's imperial designs. ( And the stupidity increases manifold when Pakis who happen to be mostly if not entirely Central Punjabis presents the universally problematic/stigmatized country as God's divine will to survive for eternity).

At least Pashtun/Afghan unification has legitimacy of (common) culture, language, history, values, territory, and myth of shared ancestry apart from religion and overwhelmingly common sectarian affiliation. Not just that, the unity manifests in terms of tribal affinity as well e.g., you find Momands, Shinwaris, Wazirs, Mahsuds, Safis, Gurbaz, Ghiljis, Mashwanis etc. living on both sides of the Durand divide.

Now tell me what a Yousafzai like me has to do with a Dravido-Indic like you? Doesn't it makes more sense for me to deal with and put up a common home/stance with whom I share everything including religion or you with whom I share nothing except religion that I share a lot of other people around the globe? I can see the merit and ethical grounds of/for common human endeavor and destiny which for me is very desirable but isn't it more logical that those who share more come together first and gain political space to develop their culture/lot as they want---Broader unification based on an equitable social contract can follow of course?

What sense does Pakistan make by the way----economic, geographical, cultural, historical, security-related, any sense related with regional and international stability (on the contrary Pakistan has proved it to be one odd, extremely problematic, violence and extremism-ridden country that has put regional-global stability at perils), etc? The only sense it makes is to the supra-chauvinists Dravido-Indians of Central Punjab like hvZSultan that are fantasizing a Dravido-Punjabi empire achieved through the extermination of the historical identities of dominated nations like Baluchis, Sindhis, Pashtuns, etc.

My Darivido-Indic friend, no one cares about Paki nationalism that you brandish here except the supra-chauvinistic Dravido-Punjabis of Central Punjab like you. Ask a Baluchi, ask a random Sindhi, a Gilgit Baltistani, even ask anyone of the Urdu-speaking Mahajars who once were super-patriot Pakis no one gives damn about Paki nationalism ---everyone wants out right cessation or at least a diluted con-federal Pakistan where local autonomy out-weights powers of the center. The Paki nationalism is the obsession of the supra-chauvinist mindsets of the Dravido-Punjabis of the Central Punjab who dream a Punjab-centered Pakeezstan. One of the many reasons is the Paki Army, which is almost exclusively Punjabi and devours major chunk of national resources. Besides, through decades of unconstitutional rule, it has helped developed a patronage system that diverts resources to Punjab and benefit Punjabis. So the Paki nationalism disguises chauvinism of the Central Punjab

[Arooj Khan]

lady?are you sure?

for the rest of your comment
to be honest i dont care if you like me or not,its obvious you and the rest of those who push the devision agenda dont like me.

you are right i shouldnt have used word dala but that was ment for those who want to bring the culture from the cutural city of pakistan Lahore to pukhtunkhwa.

Division agenda???? woww i wonder how daringly you talk about the word . you mean division among pashtun ??ryt !! but do you think we pashtuns of KPK really wish to join afghanistan whose people treat us as impure and punjabized pashtun right from now even we own our own land ,our own houses, our own country . And what the rest are doing when they beat the drums of division of PAKSITAN ??? .To force pashtuns of kpk to leave pakistan and write their names in the list of great traitors of the nation .

[KGODB]

they want to make pukhtunkhwa part of pakistan so they use urdu and there is no place for Pashto because that is against "pak"istan.

Youre the one that wants unity with them, I have seen the danger in this

[Arooj Khan]

this is not Muhajirforums.com, take your urdu elsewhere

Ohhh i see you haven't learnt a lesson yet ....you again ??? Here i'm free to speak any language the point is that you are unable to get my words and that boils your blood against urdu ryt??? don't worry i will use it again and again until you get used to it or it push you to leave the forum . muhajir forums???? talking about muhajirs from your afghanistan ??? haha btw tumhari khush fehmi ki dad deni chahiye ye kam to Admin Bro ka tha, tum q uchal rahy hu ??? behter he k apny hudood mei rahou werna mujhy theek kerna ata hei tum jaison ko .Now enjoy my urdu

take care

[KGODB]

What makes you think Afghans will lose their ghairat and adopt that "choda pandra" type of Pashto from Peshawar?

Afghans in Kabul lose their Pashto, despite being 3 hours drive away from their ancestral villages, what makes you think theyll survive a Desi onslaught

And its not just linguistic assimiliation, its a cultural and social one too. And itll be a celebration for Desis, incorporating our history and culture to theirs

Nothing makes me more sick or concerned

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Afghans in Kabul lose their Pashto, despite being 3 hours drive away from their ancestral villages, what makes you think theyll survive a Desi onslaught

And its not just linguistic assimiliation, its a cultural and social one too. And itll be a celebration for Desis, incorporating our history and culture to theirs

Nothing makes me more sick or concerned

Kabul is a Tajik-dominated city, so the main langauge is obviously Dari.
There are Pashtuns who speak Dari as their first langauge in Kabul, but the same example can be given of Hazaras in Kandahar or Tajiks in Paktia who speak only Pashto. Many Pashtuns that have arrived recently from other places make up a significant portion of Kabul's population and they speak mostly Pashto, so your example is only one-sided.

Are you talking about a "Desi onlaught" if Pashtuns from Pashtunkhwa came to Afghanistan? I see no such thing happening.
When they come to Afg., they will have to re-adapt their langauge and culture to that of their heartland. I don't see the typical Peshawari market langauge working in Paktika or Khost.

In order to gain jobs, they would also have to re-learn formal Pashto and the alphabet, so its all good.

[Toramana]

aitor to your own people in the process.

Then you can watch the Afghans trample you under the hooves of ancient horses like a horde of barbarians on the way to raid Indics (whatever that is)
Afghans will never show loyalty to a man who couldn't be loyal to his own people. If you can't be loyal to Pakistan please be loyal to lar Pashtuns

Be a bit creative in your reasoning style. The moronic Hera Mandi style (typical argumentation style of Dravido-Punjabis like you) argumentation cannot strengthen your stance. How come my loyalty to pan-Pashtun/Afghan (pan-Pashtun means Pashtun every where including KPK, Southen PK, FATA, etc. ) cause makes me a traitor. Of course the mental disease/chicanery called Darvido-Punjabi chauvinism disguised as Paki nationalism that Baluchis, Sindhis, Siraikis, Gilgit Baltis, and all sensible Pashtuns abhor and want nothing to do with can force you label me as such.

.

[Arooj Khan]

arooj khan
mujhey urdu/hindi teek taree see aatheey hai.
mujse urdu/hindi me baath kar ,acha lageyga.

me urdu me leek beey sakta who,terey rehbar haviz ko os ke madari zaban urdu beey naheey aathey.Agar woo chhey tho mai osey urdu seekalunga.

HAHAHA kia urdu boli he sun ker dil khush ker dia lol .Mujhy poora yaqeen he k sary indian ,bangali or mervari esy perh kar moun chupaty piry gen .
Havi rehbar???? theek kaha ..... usy urdu sikhni hu ge tu wo sikh bhi le ga or tumhey achi terha se sikha bhi de ga . Theek hai aj se hum urdu mei baat kery gey che ta khshal way

[pashtun_rise]

Pashtun_rise. Please do stay here. You don't know how badly these people had been bullying us.

They have improved a great deal trust me... otherwise their response to being showed the mirror would be so filled with abuse that there was no discussion to be had.

Its like the Pakistani Pashtuns here are in rout. I want to rally them. Everyone of us who leaves makes the task much harder for people like me.

Others have also told me... just ignore the foul mouthed Afghans yaar. But the question is why ignore them? Why not show them that there is another side to what they are spewing?

Pashtun_rise please stay. I am totally alone here. Arooj don't post much and you are the only one posting beside me. The rest have all escaped. Also I will give you a link to another forum sometime later. There is a guy known as son of mountains. His history is like mine though he is purer Pashtun than me and his history is more confirmed than mine. You can ask him what they did to literally hundreds of Pakistani Pashtuns.

I tried to convince him to come back but they bullied him so badly he will never come back. The problem is this is weakening our opinions. We are already under-represented even though we all know we are the majority in Pakistan. It's harder to explain this to the Afghan when there are people like Toramana here leading both lar and bar Pashtuns to suicide.

A Pashtun forum cannot be one where the views of the Pakistani Pashtun aren't present at all. It leaves a bad impression and allows the brainwashing of many others.

I ll stay...for how long Allah knows better.Tell me other websites where i can post my links...one is pk.defence right? I want to spread the mess of links.

[Toramana]

Most of us live and die in 60 years. I assume you are younger than it. It is enough time to develop loyalty to land. This is a bull**** argument that Pakistan is a young country so since I have a thousand year history I can't live in it. India has 400+ cultures. Many other nations are examples of how several peoples can live harmoniously in one nation but this is impossible to understand for a racist for whom the root of all problems are Punjab.

My Dravido-Punjabi fascist friend, there are many countries where historical nations live together harmoniously but not like your Pako-Punjabistan with the *******ized political system---which in the past 64 years has moved farther away from being a country where communities could live harmoniously prospering and respecting each others' cultures. If it were any such country, Bangal wouldn't have separated and Baluch and other nationalities wouldn't be putting up stiff resistance to Punjabi oppression/chauvinism.

Don't even compare the phony state with Britian, US, India, etc. Even with a democratic system and all the economic prosperity and human rights not to mention full space/rights to indigenous cultures, countries like Britian could not totally neutralize Irish or Scotish nationalism. Scotland is fast on its way to gain full freedom from Britian. Its indigenous identity could not be eliminated by English domination and manipulation.

If the Dravido-Punjabi elite of the Central Punjab thinks it would be able to devour indigenous nations like Baluchis, Sindhis, etc. it is their misunderstanding. What one can see is, down the road 30-50 years, your family is going to become "fused" with the family of a Sardar Ji in Amritsar of eastern Punjab. That is the writing the wall. Try to see it.


Think a bit before opening that foul Indic mouth. Sixty four years form a little fraction of the thousands of years of history in the conscious memories of Pashtuns.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

First of all, everyone needs to relax with the personal insults and bad language.
Second, Haviz if taking a mole and making a mountain out of it is a argumentative technique and is substituted for properly putting a point forward then congrats you are the expert. Naming a few personalities as some sort of proof for loyalty is not sufficient. Most of who you named were not national heroes. Karnal Sher Khan, fair enough. Abdur rab nishtar was part of the British political system, and then switched when they left (very common place among the Muslim league, but then again that party was filled with such docile negroes). Compare this to the likes of Faqir ipi, Umrah Khan, Bacha Khan, Khan Samad khan, etc. You can see the difference. The first were a group of personalities, the latter were pashtun heroes.
Thirdly, loving a people is not enough to dictate their future for them, or re write their history just to suit your patriotism. I love Italian, and Japanese culture, but I won't go there and tell them how to run their lives or politics. That is stupidity.
Fourthly, while as of now unification is a long road ahead...it will take awhile, especially when people like khostai or arooj khan are around (not their fault, their circumstances set up their politics), there is a rational and fundamental basis for this. Pashtuns/Afghans are a nation, pakistan is not. Bringing in Tajiks and Hazaras in to weaken this is pointless. Our nationhood is not going to be dictated by others, maybe our relationship to them will be, but not nationhood. Plus, many smaller ethnic groups live side by side larger ones. So what?

Historical revisionism does not justify your patriotism for a pseudo state that owes its existence to Britain. That bunk works in pak defense forum, but not anywhere else.

[Toramana]

You are a fool who knows nothing about my background. There is a possibility that some of my ancestors came right from Afghanistan. Please don't open your mouth before knowing anything.

Yes, every Dravido-Punjabi that I have met has told me so(typical Desi mentality with identity crisis). Stop it now. It makes look you awkward and un-dignified. Be proud of what you in reality are (may be a Gujjar, a Chohan, an Arrain, or even a Ranganr of Cholistan). That doesn't make a difference for me as long as you behave like a noble man, are upright, don't resort to chicanery, and have pride in your identity.

How much possibility by the way? That is mean, utterly ignoble, and debased man. "Possibility" means NOTHING. "Possibility" cannot give authentication to your Pashtun claims.

[Pukhtoon007]

he is not pashtun he says he is not pashtun and he doesnt believe he is pashtun nor does he accept it. .....lol srsly why are we still giving him any notice

[Toramana]

You gave me some examples of Pashtun leaders... (Again I have to repeat for a retard-traitor to lar Pashtuns like you) but the problem with people like you is that you count history up till a point which is why you are by all means not accepting Pashtun figures after 1893. These are no doubt our leaders, our heroes and our champions which makes Pashtun history so rich.

BUT our heroes and personalities are also Mohd Aslam Khan Khattak, Inayatullah Khan, Abdur Rab Nishtar, Saeed Allahdad Shah, Khan Bahadur Syed Ameer Hassan Khan, Khan Bahadur Khawaja Yousuf Shah, Jehangir Khan, Mohammad Younis, Shahid Afridi, lalak jan, karnal sher khan...

Most of the above you've mentioned were collaborators with British masters later co-opted by Punjabis as colonial heir to the British Raj. They have no role whatsoever in the freedom struggle of Pashtuns e.g., Ali Quli Khan father of Aslam Khan Khattak was a peon in a school later elevated to a bureaucratic position by British for his services to the colonial establishment ---In fact, almost the entire Muslim League leadership were British lackeys with no evidence of a single day of sacrifice for freedom from Britian.

[Arooj Khan]

Arooj, you have the wool over your eyes and blinded by irrationality; Anyone who sits and reads Havi's posts can identify the logical inconsistencies in his position.

If he represents Pakistani nationals, how can that encourage love? do crooks, cheats and frauds earn love from their lecherousness tactics?

I wonder how you question somebody's patriotism and call it irrationality ??!! some of you think that we are misguided by pak std while others claim that its haviz agenda (thats ofcourse not wrong he is a pakistani and doing the right thing to defend his nation)to divided pashtuns . How can you justify yourself for bulling pashtuns of kpk by interfering in the matters of kpk . I personally respect afghan's and wish them a good luck .But their interference in my country is intolerable all i want from you is to live and let live . You may abuse or dishonour the government or politicians of pakistan whats the use of degrading the nation or people ??? we pakistaniz are not crooks and cheats whatever we do ,do it on everybody's face we are not indians to back stab !!