Pakistan: Haqqani Militant Network Has Ties With Government, Ambassador

[KingKhan]

So much for the Erghans "we don't hate Pakistani's, only the government"

Keep on exposing your fake selves.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Fool Boy,

if you as an Awghan/Afghan/Pashtun stick to a British imposed entity that promotes radical ideas via radical groups, being a cancer-like and identitywise fake creation, then don´t be surprised that people will be fed up with you after almost 70 years.

And for your information, I am not your brother nor is anyone who sticks to "Pakistan" my brother.

US Forces can´t manage a full-scale invasion of a 170 million nation.
To do that, they would need a army of atleast 7 Million soldiers.

We "Awghans" are happy about the civil-war in your country and it started some years ago. You people are just to stupid and indoctrinated by your "Zaid Hamid"-like media to grasp it.
Will be fun when everything is over in a couple of months and all your illusions disappear like a wet-dream...... a Pornistani dream of a voluptous military power.

"Chickens coming home to roost!"

Everything we see today is British, French or *interest Farangi here* entity, why draw favorites, just because they were so nice as to rubber stamp it with "Afghan". All of Asia today is more or less a fake creation.

Obviously the hypocrisy of Pakistan is there, but we fail to acknowledge our own hypocrisies.

This is why Afghanistan has failed and so has Pakistan, we're defining ourselves and the "other" by things manufactured and fabricated by people who have tried to colonize us for the better part of 3 centuries.

[MostafaM]

^You may read the book "Tareekh-e Herat" (History of Herat) by the Iranian historian Safi, who mentions "Afghanistan" as the settlement area of Afghans.
That book was written in 1347.

I was talking about fake nations and nation states.

You missed the point.

[Haris]

Staff Message:

'Pornistan', 'Awghan', 'Erghan'? Such is the calibre of political discussion here? Leave it out, you're surely better than that. Also, if someone makes a stupid & completely off-topic post, do not reply with further stupid off-topic posts. You know who you are.

[ScimitarXEdge]

^You may read the book "Tareekh-e Herat" (History of Herat) by the Iranian historian Safi, who mentions "Afghanistan" as the settlement area of Afghans.
That book was written in 1347.

I was talking about fake nations and nation states.

You missed the point.

yeah and Afghanistan is also mentioned in Baburnama ...what's your point? It was never a nation until Abdur Rahman Khan

Let's not play rhetorical games with terminology. The Nation-State of Afghanistan is as fake as Pakistan, equally British created if not more so.

You actually proved my later point; they slapped the name Afghan on it and you're deluded with patriotic fervor.

This is why I interjected your argument is lopsided , you're just playing into the British scheme more so.

[KingKhan]

I failed to see what I have done wrong? I am only exposing the hypocrisy of some Afghans. Who have nothing better to do, and blame Pakistan for all their problems. When you tell them to calm down, they say "we love the people, and only hate their government". All in the meantime they pray for a war in Pakistan, which will only affect the people.


As for the countries with borders?

Scimitar is right, borders are fake British/European creation. Their is no such thing as a "Country", only land.

[MostafaM]

yeah and Afghanistan is also mentioned in Baburnama ...what's your point? It was never a nation until Abdur Rahman Khan

Let's not play rhetorical games with terminology. The Nation-State of Afghanistan is as fake as Pakistan, equally British created if not more so.

You actually proved my later point; they slapped the name Afghan on it and you're deluded with patriotic fervor.

This is why I interjected your argument is lopsided , you're just playing into the British scheme more so.

Well, what is a nation?
Culture, language and common history are the main points to describe a nation and by that standard Afghans/Pashtuns are a nation.

I do not consider the Afghan nation state as fake because it collects all the people who have been under Afghan/Pashtun influence with a distinct culture and self-conception. I do not think you can deny this fact with your known "google"-argumentation techniques.

Although the idea of "nation states" are concept derived from European history, the idea of an "Afghan nation state" is not fake at all.
The people existed prior to the existence of that state, their identity existed and their history existed, too.
You can come forward and show me that the word "Pakistan" existed prior to 1945 and I will take my words back. You can try to prove that Pakistan as a nation state is build upon one culture, history and people with a destinct identity.
We know what rag rug Pakistan is.

The British didn´t use the term Afghanistan or invented it if it was mentioned almost 450 years prior to their involvement on the Indian subcontinent.

And this debate has nothing to do with patriotic feelings but with the right of people to unite with their kind IF they want it.
National, tribal and regional ideas have always and will always prevail over internationalistic ideas like world communism, neo-nazism and political islam etc.

The British didn´t invent the idea of tribe or nation.
This is a natural concept.

[MostafaM]

....Their is no such thing as a "Country", only land.

Land is inhabitated by people.

People are allowed to unite with those who they identify with.

If you oppose the idea of countries, reject a colonial creation like Pakistan.

There is something like a "Pakistani nationality" but a "Pakistani nation" doesn´t exist.

On the other hand, an Afghan nation aswell as an Afghan nationality exist.

Let people come together who have been dragged apart.

Or face the consequences in the long run.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Well, what is a nation?
Culture, language and common history are the main points to describe a nation and by that standard Afghans/Pashtuns are a nation.

I do not consider the Afghan nation state as fake because it collects all the people who have been under Afghan/Pashtun influence with a distinct culture and self-conception. I do not think you can deny this fact with your known "google"-argumentation techniques.[

Although the idea of "nation states" are concept derived from European history, the idea of an "Afghan nation state" is not fake at all.
The people existed prior to the existence of that state, their identity existed and their history existed, too.
You can come forward and show me that the word "Pakistan" existed prior to 1945 and I will take my words back. You can try to prove that Pakistan as a nation state is build upon one culture, history and people with a destinct identity.
We know what rag rug Pakistan is.

The British didn´t use the term Afghanistan or invented it if it was mentioned almost 450 years prior to their involvement on the Indian subcontinent.

And this debate has nothing to do with patriotic feelings but with the right of people to unite with their kind IF they want it.
National, tribal and regional ideas have always and will always prevail over internationalistic ideas like world communism, neo-nazism and political islam etc.

The British didn´t invent the idea of tribe or nation.
This is a natural concept.

What Afghan/Pashtun influence, the overwhelming majority of the country speak a dialect of Persian. Most of the culture of Afghanistan is either Persian, Turkish or Arabic in origin. You can try to sell me on the 60% Pashtun babble, but no credible academic sources confirm such. Most academic source point otherwise. There's no distinct culture or self perception, there never was. That's why in history we saw tribes such as (but not limited to) Mangals, Shinwaris and Ghilzais in various forms of unrest against the "state" or what is known as "Afghanistan" and often between each other. Ethnic conflicts have always existed within Afghanistan. You live by a mythology repeated and regurgitated to manufacture a Natiion; the same way Pakistan or any other country between Israel to Bangladesh does.

Afghanistan was carved out of the Abdali Empire (which was in fact referred to as Khurasaan); of which even Modern Day Pakistan and Eastern Iran was once apart of. 1945; 1885, it's all the same to me. It's all British made; the problem I have here is you're trying fight a lie (Pakistan's identity) based on another lie (Afghanistan's identity). I don't make arbitrary demarcations. I look at it from a simple yes or no; were the British involved in the existence of both nations? Yes. The British didn't invent the term Afghanistan, they invent the Country that would eventually use that name


I don't need to prove it anything about Pakistan, since that's not what I'm here to validate Pakistan; what I am here is to prove the thing you're fighting for is as fake as the thing you're fighting against. You're being played for an identity that isn't even real.

There's absolutely NOTHING natural about Afghanistan, even when you factor in Pashtuns; tribes are autonomous collectives centered around patriarch; by definition a Nation would be in conflict with tribes. You're being used in the IMperial design more and more

[Khyber Pass]

I was watching Geo news with family and they said that the U.S has "threatened" Pakistan, I don't know if I said the right word but I can barley understand Urdu. Anyway I think Pakistan is going to turn into the next Iraq, the threats have begun.

[Khyber Pass]

There found it:

he group's links to Pakistan have been a sour point in Pakistan – United States relations. In September 2011 the Obama administration warned Pakistan that it must do more to cut ties with the Haqqani network and help eliminate its leaders, adding that "the United States will act unilaterally if Pakistan does not comply."

[MostafaM]

What Afghan/Pashtun influence, the overwhelming majority of the country speak a dialect of Persian. Most of the culture of Afghanistan is either Persian, Turkish or Arabic in origin. You can try to sell me on the 60% Pashtun babble, but no credible academic sources confirm such. Most academic source point otherwise. There's no distinct culture or self perception, there never was. That's why in history we saw tribes such as (but not limited to) Mangals, Shinwaris and Ghilzais in various forms of unrest against the "state" or what is known as "Afghanistan" and often between each other. Ethnic conflicts have always existed within Afghanistan. You live by a mythology repeated and regurgitated to manufacture a Natiion; the same way Pakistan or any other country between Israel to Bangladesh does.

Afghanistan was carved out of the Abdali Empire (which was in fact referred to as Khurasaan); of which even Modern Day Pakistan and Eastern Iran was once apart of. 1945; 1885, it's all the same to me. It's all British made; the problem I have here is you're trying fight a lie (Pakistan's identity) based on another lie (Afghanistan's identity). I don't make arbitrary demarcations. I look at it from a simple yes or no; were the British involved in the existence of both nations? Yes. The British didn't invent the term Afghanistan, they invent the Country that would eventually use that name


I don't need to prove it anything about Pakistan, since that's not what I'm here to validate Pakistan; what I am here is to prove the thing you're fighting for is as fake as the thing you're fighting against. You're being played for an identity that isn't even real.

There's absolutely NOTHING natural about Afghanistan, even when you factor in Pashtuns; tribes are autonomous collectives centered around patriarch; by definition a Nation would be in conflict with tribes. You're being used in the IMperial design more and more

At one point in a discussion you have to start to make sense:

1. as far as the logic is concerend, the overwhelming majority of Afghanistan speaks Awghani/Afghani/Pashto. You can come up with the CIA-Factbook but we know how credible your sources are.

2. I don´t think that the distinct tribal way of life, with a jirga system, where decision making is based on the will of all and not of the majority like in any other tribal/shura system around the world, has anything to do with the "cultures" you mentioned, specially Arabs who came with the Islamisation of central asia.

3. I know that you lack a proper identity and never got in touch with Pashtuns in real life, but a distinct self-perception is for example "Pakhtunwali" or "Pakhto kawel"......doing Pakhto with a fellow Pakhtun.
You cannot deny something that has been a subject of research for decades now.

4. The uprisings of whole tribes, collective tribal bonds ( tor gund, speen gund etc.) proves my point, not yours. The King has always been someone who was accepted by the tribes and not the other way around like in Persian, Turkish or Arab culture.

5. Ethnic conflicts have always been present in every heterogene sociaty across the globe. Pashtun/Afghan dominance on others is more than obvious. Hazaras call themselves "Afghan" today, have been assimiliated into Afghan/Pashtun culture etc.

6. The Durrani Empire never refered to itself as Khurassan. Khurassan was one part of all the "-stans" that Ahmad Shah himself and his successors claimed to have conquered.

Zaman Shah´s letter to the Ottoman Empire is historical document in Turkish archives where he vents about how he was blinded and imprisoned by his own brother and calls himself the conquerer of "Herat Zameen, Kabulistan, Zabulistan, Khurassan" etc.


(Source: Afghanistan. Natur, Geschichte und Kultur, Staat, Gesellschaft und Wirtschaft, (Reihe Ländermonographien des Instituts für Auslandsbeziehungen, Bd. 3). Herausgeber: Willy Kraus im Auftrag der "Arbeitsgemeinschaft Afghanistan". Mit 82 Fotos und 11 Karten)

You shouldn´t come up with arguements that have no historical meaning just to make a point.

7. The identity of Afghans/Pashtuns is clear. The identity of something called Pakistan is not.
Modern day Afghanistan´s border have been drawn by outside powers, no question about that. But the Durrani Empire and it´s successor states united Afghans/Pashtuns as it´s core people under one banner. If that state is called Afghanistan, Pashtunistan or Rohila, I really don´t care about terminology, I care about the fact that Pashtuns/Afghans always reach out to each other wherever they are, there is a bond between them and I guess, you have never come into the taste of this.

8. The tribal structures and the decentralized nature of Pashtun identity have always been a two-sided blade. A nation can be subjugated by decapitating it´s head or leadership. A nation with a million heads can´t be subjugated and that´s what the Pashtun/Afghan nation is showing for atleast 1200 years now.
The definition of a nation is not a centralistic entity (what you try to sell us) but a distinct identity that separates them from the people surrounding them.
Everyone who would say that Afghans/Pashtuns are the same as Usbeks to the north, Iranians to the west, Chines to the east and Pakistanis to the south, must be high on crack or just dillusional.

[MostafaM]

PS: By promoting Political Islam or the concept of "Ummah", you try to impose a foreign internationalistic ideology on Afghans by promoting the imperialistic approach of Islamic state theory.
But this concept was rejected some decades after the Arab armies had arrived and conquered modern day Afghanistan and Central Asia.

[checkmate]

Sharia is Allah's(swt) law.

There is no negotiation or debate about this at all. Anyone who is opposed to Sharia, is openly declaring war against the Islamic faith.

It is not necessary to use code words such as "Ummah," Political Islam," and "Islamic State theory." Best to just state you are opposed to Sharia instead of dancing

around the issue.

Despite the fact that majority within Afghanistan and the rest of the Muslim world support Sharia law, there is no requirement whatsoever for majority rule anyways

for the implementation of Sharia in Muslim lands.

[checkmate]

Afghanistan, while not in fact termed that at the time, was founded as an Islamic Emirate by Ahmad Shah Baba who was also the Amir Al-Mumineen at the time. This means his words had value to the whole Islamic world.

nothing else

Capiche