Pakistan: Haqqani Militant Network Has Ties With Government, Ambassador

[khushal]

so Scimitar uses one form of debate with someone else and uses another with you, and makes totally contradicting arguments/statements simply to be a contrarian. Arguing for the sake of arguing.

When it comes to Afghanistan, he has never been there, he has no idea what he is talking about but foolishly believes he is an expert.

[Bengal_Tiger]

so Scimitar uses one form of debate with someone else and uses another with you, and makes totally contradicting arguments/statements simply to be a contrarian. Arguing for the sake of arguing.

He like Toramana and other trolls like to misrepresent people deliberately and like Luffy is here for entertainment purposes. He tried to get me involved in his cyber-squabble with another poster just to start a flame, which I realized and torpedoed. I have no time for any of these three trolls and ignore them.

[Michin Khel]

He like Toramana and other trolls like to misrepresent people deliberately and like Luffy is here for entertainment purposes. He tried to get me involved in his cyber-squabble with another poster just to start a flame, which I realized and torpedoed. I have no time for any of these three trolls and ignore them.

You must have super dooper ignore list.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You are wrong and in contradiction:
This is what you said.


You seem to change things around whenever you feel like it. Support is not giving up autonomy, giving up autonomy can only be accomplished if the society can successfully detribalize. The only hint of this taking place is in KP. That is why KP Pashtuns are the only ones that are pro-nation.

Its not because the tribes have conflict with each other that makes Afghanistan a non real nation in the modern sense. It is because the tribes consider themselves as mini states themselves. There is internal conflict within every nation, some more than others. It is the responsibility of the federal or central government to ensure peace with in its inhabitants.
Whenever there is conflict within the United States, most of this conflict resides from state rights over federal law. Speaking from the political point of view, the US civil war was about state rights over federal law. Does the federal government have the right to tell states what to do. The same thing in Afghanistan, does the central government have the right to tell the tribes what to do. Finding this balance is key and it has been found in the past so you cant really say Afghanistan was never a nation, its like saying the US is not a nation.

Seeing oneself as "sovereign" doesn't make someone sovereign, careful reading is important

I know you're bad at logic; what else is new? But you must understand the precise phrasings and semantics to understand the message.

and Yes support means abandoning sovereignty, in so much as Taking their authority is concerned. A Government is there to rule over people, regulate over their affairs. Hence support for a Government which represents the country you identify with is precisely that, submitting to their authority. Detribalization has nothing to do with whether they are in submission to Government authority. Native Americans submit to the American Government and are not detribalized. Tribes in Afghanistan are not ministates, if they were, they wouldn't have been so easily broken down relocated by Abdur Rahman Khan.

The context proves their submission

In America Federal Law supersedes State Law, for example if a state were to make Lynching Blacks a state mandate, it can be overturned by the federal courts and remanded

So you can try and mindlessly cherry pick quotes if you want; but if you don't read in context you'll always make a fool out of yourself. Hence why I'm always spitting my water out in laughter when you mindlessly use terms like "Red Herring" or "conspiracy theory" outside their correct usage. Like a kid who just learns something new that he saw/heard a grown up say.

Now that last paragraph was a side note; and advise that you should read things carefully before responding.

[ScimitarXEdge]

When it comes to Afghanistan, he has never been there, he has no idea what he is talking about but foolishly believes he is an expert.

It's not that I haven't been there that's the issue; you blindly and ignorantly try and defend the Taliban, and hence you merely try and create a revisionist portrayal of what actually happens and then try and pass that off as the standard narrative.

[ScimitarXEdge]

so Scimitar uses one form of debate with someone else and uses another with you, and makes totally contradicting arguments/statements simply to be a contrarian. Arguing for the sake of arguing.

Not at all , it is the same argument; in different contexts....Khushal just mindlessly cherry picks quotes without careful reading.

And worst off he does so because he gets humiliated in other debates so he tries to take something I use in a CERTAIN context in one debate and tries to use that to defend an argument that he lost somewhere else. For example he brought up HAMAS again a debate we had months ago to try and defend the Taliban.

All this indicates is that the guy is a Pakistani of Pashtun heritage who's adopted the Pakistani narrative to define what happens in Afghanistan.

Proof ..he thinks Pashtuns accept the Taliban (central authority) but want tribal autonomy? That's more of a contradiction than anything I have said. At least I specify my context with appropriate phrasings.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Bengal Tiger; you're a radicalized wahhabi idiot; I respected you and tried defending you from Pashtuns on this forum, because let's be honest; MOST Pashtuns view Bengalis as people they conquered at one time. It is horribly bigoted but it is true. and hence why you have people from Toramana to Luffy who keep trying to attack you on ethnic grounds. They see you as an inferior being, even Adamyousufzai made a derogatory remark about the complexion of Bengalis, which is why I don't understand why you're fixated on Pashtuns.

When really it's clear you try so hard and wish so badly to be Pashtun, and hence developed this weird Pashtun fetish. You avoid my questions because you're trying to run a tight rope of trying to hide your two faced support for Pakistani slaves while turning around and claiming you give a damn about Pashtuns or Muslims in general


You're no better than a Paki, in fact wasn't Bangladesh East Pakistan? Toramana is right, you can take Bengalis out of Pakistan, but you can't take Pakistani mentality out of Bengalis.

If you like the Taliban so much ....try them on Bangladeshis ...then tell me how they like it, keep your Taliban garbage in Deoband.

[ScimitarXEdge]

E
This same thing applies in Afghanistan. If the Tribes feel that their rights are being violated by the central authority, then they will naturally rebel. The tribes main concern with the Afghan government is why the Afghan government is allowing foreign forces to invade their homes, why are they not being protected by the government, if the government is not going to protect them then they will have to arm and take the law into their own hands, the Taliban is stepping in to provide the Arms and Assistance.

Talk about contradicting yourself. You don't "rebel" against something you support; you admitted yourself that Pashtuns support their government by and large, now you're saying they're rebelling?

A handful of Pakistani slaves is not proof of a Pashtun rebellion.

[Toramana]

Not at all , it is the same argument; in different contexts....Khushal just mindlessly cherry picks quotes without careful reading.

And worst off he does so because he gets humiliated in other debates so he tries to take something I use in a CERTAIN context in one debate and tries to use that to defend an argument that he lost somewhere else. For example he brought up HAMAS again a debate we had months ago to try and defend the Taliban.

All this indicates is that the guy is a Pakistani of Pashtun heritage who's adopted the Pakistani narrative to define what happens in Afghanistan.

Proof ..he thinks Pashtuns accept the Taliban (central authority) but want tribal autonomy? That's more of a contradiction than anything I have said. At least I specify my context with appropriate phrasings.

This is nonsense. I have full respect for Bengali_Tiger and consider him to be one of Pashtun family. Please, don't spread lies. Luffy may be against Bengali_Tiger becuase being a Punjabi/Siraiki, he is harbouring a natural disliking for Bengalis who Punjabis consider to have betrayed Pakistan/Ranjit Singhistan/Khalistan.

[Soldat_Amir]

This is nonsense. I have full respect for Bengali_Tiger and consider him to be one of Pashtun family. Please, don't spread lies. Luffy may be against Bengali_Tiger becuase being a Punjabi/Siraiki, he is harbouring a natural disliking for Bengalis who Punjabis consider to have betrayed Pakistan/Ranjit Singhistan/Khalistan.

Toramana zma vrora, dasay waka, wa reez lar sha Bengladesh ta, aow pa khpal staro banay weena, chee sumra Talibani/Tablighi awlad dee.

Just recently, a young girl was whipped with sticks by her village with accordance to similar laws that Taliban follow.

Bengali Tiger, supports Jihadi movemetns from the CIA led KLA of Kosovo to Taliban.

Thats dangerous man!

[ScimitarXEdge]

This is nonsense. I have full respect for Bengali_Tiger and consider him to be one of Pashtun family. Please, don't spread lies. Luffy may be against Bengali_Tiger becuase being a Punjabi/Siraiki, he is harbouring a natural disliking for Bengalis who Punjabis consider to have betrayed Pakistan/Ranjit Singhistan/Khalistan.

The guy is a worse Taliban apologist than even UnknownPrince

and don't back peddle now Toramana, when you say "South Asian MUslims" we known you include Bengalis in that lot.

And you're just as Punjabi/Siraiki as Luffy, your pass port says Pakistan on it, remember?

I personally have no tiff about Bengalis; but don't pretend you don't. Pakistani influence is rife with Bengalis as Bengal Wahhabi seems to convey

[Toramana]

The guy is a worse Taliban apologist than even UnknownPrince

and don't back peddle now Toramana, when you say "South Asian MUslims" we known you include Bengalis in that lot.

And you're just as Punjabi/Siraiki as Luffy, your pass port says Pakistan on it, remember?

I personally have no tiff about Bengalis; but don't pretend you don't. Pakistani influence is rife with Bengalis as Bengal Wahhabi seems to convey

kha guzar dai rabandai oko kana---yara kho dair razil yai---I don't use the word in that sense---

[khushal]

Talk about contradicting yourself. You don't "rebel" against something you support; you admitted yourself that Pashtuns support their government by and large, now you're saying they're rebelling?

A handful of Pakistani slaves is not proof of a Pashtun rebellion.

you dont need 150,000+ NATO troops to handle a handful of Pakistani slaves. The Pashtun rebellion is real.
I never said pashtuns support the government, I was saying that your poll which is what says that the overwhelming afghan people support the Afghan Government does not prove the tribes actually give up their autonomy. the tribes supported Zahir shah but they were still autonomous.

[Toramana]

you dont need 150,000+ NATO troops to handle a handful of Pakistani slaves. The Pashtun rebellion is real.
I never said pashtuns support the government, I was saying that your poll which is what says that the overwhelming afghan people support the Afghan Government does not prove the tribes actually give up their autonomy. the tribes supported Zahir shah but they were still autonomous.

Khushala, are you still in Hizb-i-Islami---Where is your leader Hikmatyar hiding?

[khushal]

And worst off he does so because he gets humiliated in other debates so he tries to take something I use in a CERTAIN context in one debate and tries to use that to defend an argument that he lost somewhere else. For example he brought up HAMAS again a debate we had months ago to try and defend the Taliban.

You lost the HAMAS debate and the debate about the Taliban commander that was allegedly stoned to death by villagers. You could nt prove any of your points. I was using your logic with HAMAS to make you realize how illogical you are and you yourself was arguing against your own logic.

All this indicates is that the guy is a Pakistani of Pashtun heritage who's adopted the Pakistani narrative to define what happens in Afghanistan.

I am a Zazai from the tribal belt. All I'm doing is explaining the reasoning behind the violence in the tribal belt. The Pakistani narrative is much different from what I am saying.

Proof ..he thinks Pashtuns accept the Taliban (central authority) but want tribal autonomy? That's more of a contradiction than anything I have said. At least I specify my context with appropriate phrasings.

Quote me where I said the Pashtuns accept the Taliban. I have claimed the Pashtuns tribes reject central authority whether it is the Afghan Government out of Kabul or the Taliban. The difference is that the Taliban much like Zahir Shah understands this aspect of the society and the Afghan government has not learned any lesson from history.
Read about the American revolution and how at that time state rights was at the core of debate and conflict much like tribal rights in Afghanistan are at the core of conflict today.

You on the other hand have adopted the Tajiks narrative by saying the resistance is a Pakistani slave and has nothing to do with the structure of society or the people that are resisting should not be given a voice. If the Pakistani were so good at enslaving people, they would have wrestled Kashmir from India long ago and FATA would not be FATA but part of KP proper and part of the Pakistani nation.