Pakistan's PM, DG ISI and COAS visit to Afghanistan

[emkhan]

So what you say who could do it and what is purpose behind this ?

[khyaal]

So what you say who could do it and what is purpose behind this ?

I'm not doing anything, I just want tell what is about to happen, which apolitical people just can't sense in advance.

[emkhan]

Lets see what happens

[khyaal]

Lets see what happens

Yeah. But you just want to be part of the spectators?

[emkhan]

hmmm i would like to be a part of the movement in real only if it is genuine Pukhtun movement standing for the ghairat of pukhtuns, for the haya of the pukhtuns, for the identity of the pukhtuns, for the betterment of pukhtuns and this movement's remote control device should not be in the hands of any external power and there should be no smell of secularism come out of it otherwise i am better in Pakistan.
Any movement backed by India, America, Russia or Britain is not acceptable to us.

[khyaal]

hmmm i would like to be a part of the movement in real only if it is genuine Pukhtun movement standing for the ghairat of pukhtuns, for the haya of the pukhtuns, for the identity of the pukhtuns, for the betterment of pukhtuns and this movement's remote control device should not be in the hands of any external power and there should be no smell of secularism come out of it otherwise i am better in Pakistan.
Any movement backed by India, America, Russia or Britain is not acceptable to us.

Well, I don't see any reason as to why it should be sponsored, we have a history of resistence and we have absolute justification to end this hegemony. Punjabi termed Bengalis resistence as sponsored, they are terming Baloch insurgency as sponsored and the have said the same about Khudai Khidmatgaar movement(though they made crucial blunders at vital moments).

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Well, I don't see any reason as to why it should be sponsored, we have a history of resistence and we have absolute justification to end this hegemony. Punjabi termed Bengalis resistence as sponsored, they are terming Baloch insurgency as sponsored and the have said the same about Khudai Khidmatgaar movement(though they made crucial blunders at vital moments).

You appear to be talking about two entirely different issues here if I am correct. Once again you have a few questions to answer before anyone takes you seriously.

1) Does this incarnation of a loya Afghanistan occur under the corrupt, inept, and nonPashtun dominated Karzai government which is basically propped up via NATO power?

2) Where are you facts, statistics, and figures (i.e. the hard data) that shows what you say is correct regarding the will of the people of Pashtunkhwa? I have asked for this now on multiple occasions with you simply answering with slander.

I gave you data showing that Afghanistan's Pashtuns ready to pair up with their brethren and even break off the northern provinces:

"The poll also showed majority support in Southern Afghanistan for secession and the creation of an independent Pashtunistan (potentially including some of Pakistan’s tribal regions), and that 40 percent of the population believed NATO was occupying Afghanistan as part of a goal to destroy Islam."

-survey by the International Council on Security and Development

Now you must provide data that is meaningful regarding the wishes of the Pashtuns from KP regarding

A) Joining Karzai's Afghanistan or B) a Pashtunistan

3) The danger in believing your fantasy is bloodshed and lack of autonomy. A Karzai led and ANA executed incursion into Pashtunkhwa is bound to lead to equally great stupidity despite the support it would recieve from a vocal minority comprised of you and Toramana.

If the answer is no to Karzai, and yes to a government ruled by folks like Graveyard with his mentality who actually understand the Pashtuns, then I am sure FATA and other regions will be much more reasonable about reuniting.

Otherwise, you offer the KP pashtuns the chance to trade the hegemony of one jackass (Zardari) for another jackass (Karzai). Both have proved incompetent and unable to defend their country with their life.

Regarding Pakistans instability and self instigated downward spiral, I agree with you on this.

[khyaal]

You appear to be talking about two entirely different issues here if I am correct. Once again you have a few questions to answer before anyone takes you seriously.

1) Does this incarnation of a loya Afghanistan occur under the corrupt, inept, and nonPashtun dominated Karzai government which is basically propped up via NATO power?

2) Where are you facts, statistics, and figures (i.e. the hard data) that shows what you say is correct regarding the will of the people of Pashtunkhwa? I have asked for this now on multiple occasions with you simply answering with slander.

I gave you data showing that Afghanistan's Pashtuns ready to pair up with their brethren and even break off the northern provinces:

"The poll also showed majority support in Southern Afghanistan for secession and the creation of an independent Pashtunistan (potentially including some of Pakistan’s tribal regions), and that 40 percent of the population believed NATO was occupying Afghanistan as part of a goal to destroy Islam."

-survey by the International Council on Security and Development

Now you must provide data that is meaningful regarding the wishes of the Pashtuns from KP regarding

A) Joining Karzai's Afghanistan or B) a Pashtunistan

3) The danger in believing your fantasy is bloodshed and lack of autonomy. A Karzai led and ANA executed incursion into Pashtunkhwa is bound to lead to equally great stupidity despite the support it would recieve from a vocal minority comprised of you and Toramana.

If the answer is no to Karzai, and yes to a government ruled by folks like Graveyard with his mentality who actually understand the Pashtuns, then I am sure FATA and other regions will be much more reasonable about reuniting.

Otherwise, you offer the KP pashtuns the chance to trade the hegemony of one jackass (Zardari) for another jackass (Karzai). Both have proved incompetent and unable to defend their country with their life.

Regarding Pakistans instability and self instigated downward spiral, I agree with you on this.

Look, the alleged son of Ahamad Shah Baba perhaps you have got some personal scoares to settle with Karzai Saib. And another thing is that just like you don't know anything about Afghanistan same is the case with your knowledge about Paksitan. In Pakistan Punjabi Army establishment holds the real power, army only is the de facto ruler and not any Zardari or Gilani.

Another thing is that the change in Pakistan has never been brought by any vote or polls.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Look, the alleged son of Ahamad Shah Baba perhaps you have got some personal scoores to settle with Karzai Saib. And another thing is that just like you don't know anything about Afghanistan same is the case with your knowledge about Paksitan. In Pakistan Punjabi Army establishment holds the real power, army only is the de facto ruler and not any Zardari or Gilani.

Another thing is that the change in Pakistan has never been brought by any vote or polls. Your simply a punjabi apologist here in the guise of Pashtuns, lol born at the border of Qandahar,

I see your lack of evidence troubles you. lol. As I noted, if Panjabi is the insult you use for someone that prefers evidence based approaches, then so be it. It simply means "smarter than Khyaal" to the rest of us.

Otherwise, put up or shut up. You basically admit exactly what i said, which is that you have no evidence, yet you lament, in one of the other threads, the fact that Pashto is not at all utilized on billboards or signs in the former NWFP at all. Osho observed this same phenomena. In the setting of all this, neither you or Toramana nor Achekzai Bibi is leading an insurgency in the manner of Bugti. Yet you expect us to believe that the villages are clammoring for Karzai to swoop in and save them from the heavy hand of the Paki Army that they dance for on their independence day celebrations?

So if you cannot provide data, then go back home and feast on the dhaal that you and your fellow Pakistanis (and do remember you are a card carrying pakistani despite the fact that you level that charge at others... it is you, not I that has the Pakistani passport and ID card) shall feast on for a few more years.

[khyaal]

I see your lack of evidence troubles you. lol. As I noted, if Panjabi is the insult you use for someone that prefers evidence based approaches, then so be it. It simply means "smarter than Khyaal" to the rest of us.

Look! We both understand the motives of each other otherwise there was no need for the alleged son of Ahmad Shah Baba to give moral support to confused pakis and thus help them keep their false conviction of an islamic democratic republic of Pakistan (a complete lie) intact.

Otherwise, put up or shut up. You basically admit exactly what i said, which is that you have no evidence, yet you lament, in one of the other threads, the fact that Pashto is not at all utilized on billboards or signs in the former NWFP at all. Osho observed this same phenomena. In the setting of all this, neither you or Toramana nor Achekzai Bibi is leading an insurgency in the manner of Bugti. Yet you expect us to believe that the villages are clammoring for Karzai to swoop in and save them from the heavy hand of the Paki Army that they dance for on their independence day celebrations?

Actually these things have been answered million times before, thus repeating the same thing again and again only exposes your true intentions. Intentions can easily be judged by the pattern of writing through which one can sense what the writer actually wishes to convey. By demonizing every afghan leadership you can't stop people for struggling against the Punjabi imperialists. Now it simply won't work.

So if you cannot provide data, then go back home and feast on the dhaal that you and your fellow Pakistanis (and do remember you are a card carrying pakistani despite the fact that you level that charge at others... it is you, not I that has the Pakistani passport and ID card) shall feast on for a few more years.

Pakistan has never been a democratic country which could honour the will of the pashtun (or any other nation) population by providing them that opportunity in a democratic manner. Did they recognize data and figures in the case of Bengal. 1971 general elections was the only and last time Pakistan(punjab) committed a blunder to allow a somewhat free data to be avaialbel. Pakistan won't repeat that blunder again.

So to collect real data, you have to provide Pashtuns the opportunity of speaking what they wish to speak, a coersion free atmosphere. So all such data you provide unless the above condition is met will be false and fallacious.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Look! We both understand the motives of each other otherwise there was no need for the alleged son of Ahmad Shah Baba to give moral support to confused pakis and thus help them keep their false conviction of an islamic democratic republic of Pakistan (a complete lie) intact.



Actually these things have been answered million times before, thus repeating the same thing again and again only exposes your true intentions. Intentions can easily be judged by the pattern of writing through which one can sense what the writer actually wishes to convey. By demonizing every afghan leadership you can't stop people for struggling against the Punjabi imperialists. Now it simply won't work.



Pakistan has never been a democratic country which could honour the will of the pashtun population by providing them that opportunity in democratic manner. Did they recognize data and figures in the case of Bengal. 1971 general elections was the only and last time Pakistan(punjab) committed a blunder to allow a somewhat free data to be avaialbel. Pakistan won't repeat that blunder again.

So to collect real data, you have to provide Pashtuns the opportunity of speaking what they wish to speak, a coersion free atmosphere. So all such data you provide unless the above condition is met will be false and fallacious.

yawwwwn. No wonder you guys cannot produce anything of worth for pashtun independence, and no wonder it takes a Mehsud and his men fighting the paki army to accomplish anything of worth. Its because you guys basically suck at logic, evidence production, and pretty much anything that involves not being a member of the flat earth society.

You couldnt even cite an empiric example of one you mad red hatters lifting a rifle to even shoot a single panjab soldier to help your brethren. At least Bugti died like a man at the end of his enemies recieving fire. Instead, we have pictures of Achekzai bibi hugging mordar Mr. MQM himself. So then, in your idiocy, you promote killing your own sons (the braves of FATA) while you run experiments on southern afghanistan every decade or so.

Regarding utility of surveys, so sing your swan song elsewhere. They could conduct one in war torn southern Afghanistan, but you red hatters cannot even conduct a single large N number powered study in even a segment of KP?

Regarding free data, you appear to want to have your stale cake and eat it too. So somehow Farhat Taj ANDERSEN can run around bungraing herself out and collecting data of utility to Toramana in the tribal belt, but you cannot, with all of Achekzai Bibi's pull produce any semblance of data?

Talk is cheap brother. The reality is that your passport is stamped Pakistan when you travel all around the world with that albatross around your neck. In this sad reality you wish for Hamid Bibi to cross the border and take on your troubles, whilst he can barely fathom the hornets nest he stepped into himself with dreams of being even half of the man Ahmad Shah was.

*Btw, tis Admin Khan and not I that is a descendent of Ahmad Shah Durrani. If you cannot even get information straight on here... how do we expect you to get it right in real life?

[khyaal]

yawwwwn. No wonder you guys cannot produce anything of worth for pashtun independence, and no wonder it takes a Mehsud and his men fighting the paki army to accomplish anything of worth. Its because you guys basically suck at logic, evidence production, and pretty much anything that involves not being a member of the flat earth society.

LOL. What is meant by you guys? I'm just an ordinary worker of the Party just like hundreds of thousands of other workers.

You couldnt even cite an empiric example of one you mad red hatters lifting a rifle to even shoot a single panjab soldier to help your brethren.

What red hatters? What is YOUR justification for hatred with a country (the US) and system which you have no relationship with but out of opportunistic considerations you prefered it over any other islamic country. You exploit their social security system but work for Punjabis who might have facilitated your visa and immigration process and have helped you financially. LOL, I know several like you.

At least Bugti died like a man at the end of his enemies recieving fire.

Just as I have told you before that you know nothing or won't say anything good about Pashtun/afghans (you have only hate for them) except and history of Pakistan( but sometimes out of diplomacy condemn Pakistan to keep your credibility) so you are also ignorant of the long and enduring struggle of Pashtun leadership. Just ask someone in Pakistan(your spiritual home country) and they will tell you about Mahmood Khan Achakzai as well as Shaheed Khan Abul Samad Khan.

Instead, we have pictures of Achekzai bibi hugging mordar Mr. MQM himself. So then, in your idiocy, you promote killing your own sons (the braves of FATA) while you run experiments on southern afghanistan every decade or so.

LOL. Bringing out that picture of the 2000 when Mashar Achakzai was on visit to England you are trying so disperately to demonize every Pashtun(afghan) leader.
There have been several attacks on his life if you like a bit and he spent over six years in Afghanistan in exile.

regarding utility of surveys, so sing your swan song elsewhere. They could conduct one in war torn southern Afghanistan, but you red hatters cannot even conduct a single large N number powered study in even a segment of KP?

Re-read my post. I'm not against survey. But since Pakistan is not a democratic country, it can manipulate any survey and polls which could perpetuate Punjab's hegemony and control over the oppressed nations. All survey conducted under the coersive systems will be false unless a free political environment is provided to oppressed Pashtun, Baloch nations. FYI, pashtuns are not alone in this, Punjabi has history and track record of oppression and hegemony.

Regarding free data, you appear to want to have your stale cake and eat it too. So somehow Farhat Taj ANDERSEN can run around bungraing herself out and collecting data of utility to Toramana in the tribal belt, but you cannot, with all of Achekzai Bibi's pull produce any semblance of data?

Look, you and your likes will always demonize anyone who works against Punjab's agenda as regional imperialist, it is very clear.

Talk is cheap brother. The reality is that your passport is stamped Pakistan when you travel all around the world with that albatross around your neck. In this sad reality you wish for Hamid Bibi to cross the border and take on your troubles, whilst he can barely fathom the hornets nest he stepped into himself with dreams of being even half of the man Ahmad Shah was.

Such a rotten and outdated argument only proves me to be officially a Pakistani citizen. We have been through this even before when the whole India and Pashtuns of occupied Pakhtunkwa would carry with Queen Victoria's image on them, a passport with a British indian citizenship.

LOL. Again your wrath falls on Pashtun afghan leadership. LOL. Keep it up. This only exposes you further.

Btw, tis Admin Khan and not I that is a descendent of Ahmad Shah Durrani. If you cannot even get information straight on here... how do we expect you to get it right in real life?

You think by mentioning yourself along admin khan would add to your credibility. I know a person from Khost who openly spies for Pakistani intelligence agencies against his motherland in reward for provinding him a whom in Peshawar and a few thousands ruppees a month.

[khyaal]

Bacha khan, Faqir Ipi, Khan Shaheed Abdul Samad Khan, Mahmood Khan, Karzai if had been the boot lickers of Punjab, I'm sure they would be your ideal personalities. LOL

[Toramana]

Khyaala, I have also noticed Brakzai demonizes every Pashtun leader of the recent past or the present . What he doesn't demonize is the Rawalpindi establishment for the soul of Zia-ul-Haq the "great benefector" of "Muslim Ummah" would be hurt.

And I cannot understand the specific hatred for Achakzai.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

LOL. What is meant by you guys? I'm just an ordinary worker of the Party just like other hundreds of thousands of other workers.



What red hatters. What is your justification for hatred with a country (the US) and system which you have no relationship with but out of opportunistic considerations you prefered it over any other islamic country. You exploit their social security system but work for Punjabis who might have facilitated your visa and immigration process and have helped you financially. LOL, I know several like you.



Just as I told you that you know nothing about Pashtun/afghans except the stance and history of Pakistan( but sometimes out of dimplocy condemn Pakistan to keep your credibility) so you are also unaware of the long and enduring struggle of Pashtun leadership. Just ask someone in Pakistan(your spiritual home country) and they will tell you about Mahmood Khan Achakzai as well as Shaheed Khan Abul Samad Khan.




LOL. Bringing out that picture of the 2000 when Mashar Achakzai was on visit to England you are trying so disperately to demonize every Pashtun(afghan) leader.
There have been several attacks on his life if you like a bit and he spent over six years in Afghanistan in exile.



Re-read my post. I'm not against survey. But since Pakistan is not a democratic country, it can manipulate any survey and polls which could perpetuate Punjab's hegemony and control over the oppressed nations. All survey conducted under the coersive systems will be false unless a free political environment is provided to oppressed Pashtun, Baloch nations. FYI, pashtuns are not alone in this, Punjabi has history and track record of oppression and hegemony.



Look, you and your likes will always demonize anyone who works against Punjab's agenda as regional imperialist, it is very clear.



Such a rotten and outdated argument only proves me to be officially a Pakistani citizen. We have been through this even before when the whole India and Pashtuns of occupied Pakhtunkwa would carry with Queen Victoria's image on them, a passport with a British indian citizenship.

LOL. Again your wrath falls on Pashtun afghan leadership. LOL. Keep it up. This only exposes you further.



You think by mentioning yourself along admin khan would add to your credibility. I know a person from Khost who openly spies for Pakistani intelligence agencies against his motherland in reward for provinding him a whom in Peshawar and a few thousands ruppees a month.

Oh where do we start. I think someone spiked your punch at one of those late night gallas you red hatters have where everyone goes home with alcoholic liver disease.

Regarding the US: it operates generally based on what is best for its interests except in the case of its interventionsm in the Muslim word (and Latin America). My goal is that the indigenous people in all their lands, whether they want to impose nakedism, islamism, maoism, or whatever ism they desire be able to do so without the Americans being used as a battering ram for the interests of the vocal few (namely you and Toramana and Achekzai Bibi). Basically, if you are charging me with being a guilty American loyalist, guilty as charged. I dont think that Tim, Steve, and Bob should die for your silly fantasies. Do it yourself like Bugti did. He didnt run like Achekzai the poodle to take refuge in every country save his own. Also, Mr. Achekzai appears to have a limited intellect, having obtained an engineering "degree" from Peshawar off his daddy's back and yet he has not practiced a day in his life.

Perhaps we can airdrop you, Toramana, Baygham, and Meseed into Wana to deal with Hakimullah, or into Nuristan to deal with Mullah Omar and his merry band of men. That way, multitudes of lives are saved to avoid your silly agendas.

Regarding learning English: embrace reading for comprehension. I said that you have it wrong with me ever claiming to be Ahmad Shah's scion. Admin Khan is though. Also, its "home", whom is an article.

Once again you are at a loss and could not answer the glaring contradiction. Ill repeat myself because it gives me joy to watch you squirm in your own intellectual toilet: You claim data cannot be collected.... yet somehow you support Taj ANDERSEN's data... its glaringly contradictory. It just means basically: "I khyaal will cherry pick data that supports my views... even though its weak and has an N power size of 400 people despite claiming a N sample size of 500 or so."

You will never succeed because you cannot think outside the party lines and that little strip of Charsadda where old Asfandyaar likes to smoke his charz from time to time. Regarding my criticism of Pakistan, trust me, its more balanced than yours is because yours is based on some mentally handicapped idealism that has no grounding in reality and no data to back it up. It relies on occupation, hegemony, and a series of false assumptions. It relies on a nonmeritocratic system where the weak minded scions of Bacha sit on the ANP thrones and dominate the tempo of nationalistic talk. It reflects the sick carcass that Pakistan actually is, feudalism straight from the womb to the tomb.

It certainly wont be parasites like Achekzai and Asfandyaar that break the back of the Pakistani confederacy that feeds him and built his Quetta estates. We have yet to see Achekzai Bibi succesfully off a single Panjabi soldier. I think it would be interesting to see how many Paki soldiers H Mehsud and his men have killed and put them on the side of the scale versus how many all of the PMAP/ANP members and party leaders have successfully put 6 feet in the ground or sent to their makers.