Afghanistan vs Iraq.

[Toramana]

Pure CIA invented false red herring; using its stooges to take the fall for them.

Anyone who has any knowledge about current geopolitics or is in touch with reality knows ISI is an extension of the CIA and exists by their financial support , training and directives. "Terorrism" and Ethnic Conflict (Arab-Punjabi nexus) is a smokescreen for their Imperial Designs/ divide and rule schemes.

This support of America on the pretext of fighting terrorism is really a disguise for sold out inferiority complex driven south Asian cronies to serve their Imperial Master's agenda.

Yes, Camelism/Arabism/Beduinism and its nexus with Ismlamo-Indic fascism lead by Punjabis seeking expansion into Central Asia via Afghanistan doesn't exits whereas the so-called US imperialism exists, haan? This but can be only the logic of some DESERT mentality.

[Alchemist]

Yes, Camelism/Arabism/Beduinism and its nexus with Ismlamo-Indic fascism lead by Punjabis seeking expansion into Central Asia via Afghanistan doesn't exits whereas the so-called US imperialism exists, hanna? This but can be only the logic of some DESERT mentality.

"Camelism" LOL
the philosophy of Camels? wtf lol

"Ismlamo-indic facism" LOL x 2
wow ...triple threat
Fascism from europe, mixed with hinduism and islam ...wow ..you've out done your self this time.

[Toramana]

Hi Davidkross, welcome most. I couldn't see this thread before and therefore, couldn't participate in the discussions. Anyhow, let me tell you most of the members that have expressed reservations about the presence of US-NATO forces in Afghanistan here have not done so due to any association with Islmo-fascism. They have done so due to nationlist sentiments arising from Pashtuns' sense of alienation.

However, there are some participants who try to hide their Islamo-fascist inclination behind other facades. The opposition to the intervention of the civilized world against barbarism doesn't spring from any love of America or concern for its future as some individuals "existing" in the heart of America and living like parasites on its resources pretend on this forum. It is more for the love Pan-Islamist fascism.

[Toramana]

"Camelism" LOL
the philosophy of Camels? wtf lol

"Ismlamo-indic facism" LOL x 2
wow ...triple threat
Fascism from europe, mixed with hinduism and islam ...wow ..you've out done your self this time.

Yes, and those that should have been irritated have actually been...So much for Afghan pretentions.

[Toramana]

This support of America on the pretext of fighting terrorism is really a disguise for sold out inferiority complex driven south Asian cronies to serve their Imperial Master's agenda.

The support for the struggle of the civilized world against barbarism/camelism doesn't spring from any inferiority complex but a very genuine fear and a rational perception of the threat to their way of life, culture, and native identity from a desert ideology that is seeking revival of camel power at the cost of poor people.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Yes, and those that should have been irritated have actually been...So much for Afghan pretentions.

Sarcasm: (Sigh), oh Toramana, you have certainly figured us out. We sneaky pan Islamists/American hating fascists are certainly attempting to co-opt David for equally sneaky pan Islamist purposes. What sort of pyschopathic world do you live in man? Every post of yours is like some sort of projection based on past events. Did some hard core Muslim mullah guy beat up your dog or bully you as a kid in the madrassa? I swear, every post of yours has you seeing "gorillas in the mist." Regarding Islamo imperials, I too sympathize with you regarding all those massive air bases the Islamo Panjabi Indic Converto Krytponian Sino imperialists are building in the mainland US and in Europe. I mean heck, can't they park their jets and tanks in their own countries? Those pesky Muslim imperialist of TODAY, ought to take their aircraft carriers and really get them out of the gulf of Mexico and the coast of the UK.

Is Dr. Scheuer also a closet Islamo-Fascist with a secret hatred of America locked in his chest after nearly three decades serving Central Intelligence? Here is his latest post that relates directly to imperialsm. I expect a point by point rebuttal from you instead of more of your hot air and empty accusations. If you accuse Michael Scheuer of being a Pan Islamist then we know you have gone off the deep end and I can refer you to a psychiatrist:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://non-intervention.com/751/u-s-...for-americans/
U.S. intervention in Sudan and Somalia: Sowing war’s whirlwind for Americans

By mike | Published: December 29, 2010
How many non-elite Americans do you think can find “Darfur” on a map? How many of the same tax-paying folks do you think want the U.S. government to spend money on the poor, hungry, unemployed, and illiterate in Darfur, when there are tens of thousands of Americans living in the same conditions at home? And how many non-elite Americans want to worsen America’s war with Islam?

My own hunch is that: (a) not many could find Darfur on a map; (b) few would want to send their taxes abroad when so many Americans need assistance; and (c) even fewer would want more war with Islam abroad and at home.

Well guess what, all of these non-elite Americans are fresh out of luck. With the U.S. government and such scintillating strategic thinkers as George Clooney, Don Cheadle, Angelina Jolie, and Mia Farrow in the lead, the West is about to help rip Darfur and the rest of Muslim Sudan’s oil-rich southern territories out of the country and create an independent, largely Christian state.

Under the guise of a “referendum” (set for 9 January 2011) that will be observed by a 110-person European Union team of imperial busybodies, Sudan’s primarily Christian south will be severed from the Sudanese nation-state, setting the stage for a continuation of the decades old Muslim-Christian Sudanese civil war. The difference will be that henceforth — as is occurring in Somalia — the U.S. and the West will be obliged to protect the new nation they created by theft and oil lust with diplomacy, funding, arms, military training, and eventually troops.

And what is America’s interest in becoming involved to the hilt and inextricably in Sudan? What is so vital to the United States in Sudan that President Obama is pressing the leaders of Chad, Egypt, Ethiopia, Kenya, Nigeria, Rwanda, South Africa, and the other states of the African Union to support “our intense interest in having a successful referendum” — read that as “our intense interest in carving up Sudan to suit our imperial purposes and corner access to Sudanese oil.” (As an aside, one must admit Rudyard Obama is nothing if not an aggressive proponent of improving — that is, “Westernizing” — the lives of “our little brown brothers,” although the blatant theft of Islamic land is a rather odd component for the kinder and more gentle “Muslim outreach program” Obama announced in Cairo and Jakarta.)

The answer is that Obama, our bipartisan political elite, the mainstream media, and the rich, immature, libertine, and anti-U.S. Hollywood set lead by Clooney, et al, want to feel good about themselves by doing “good” for foreigners. For these elite U.S. citizens-of-the-world, ordinary Americans and their kids can starve, freeze, live on the streets, fail to find work, and remain illiterate forever. In essence, they can rot while Washington spends their taxes on Darfur — a place where absolutely no genuine U.S. interest is at stake.

Now, that’s a bit harsh and in one aspect even wrong. The Democrats and Republicans must ensure that ordinary Americans are kept well-off enough to keep having children who will join the U.S. military that will be used to fight the wars their interventionism start. And there can be no doubt that Washington’s leading role in championing Darfur’s secession from Sudan will intensify America’s war with Islam and the evolving Islam-vs-Christianity war in Africa. And, not surprisingly, the ever-adept Osama bin Laden began setting this trap for the United States over the course of the last decade.

Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and Abu Yaha al-Libi, one of al-Qaeda’s leading theologians, have spoken publicly and on multiple occasions about Washington’s intention to intervene in Somalia and Sudan to halt the spread of Sunni Islam in the Horn of Africa; to eliminate the Islamic regime in Sudan; to champion the spread of Christianity in Africa; and to ensure Sudan’s massive oil reserves are in pro-U.S. hands. Obama’s administration, with full Republican support, is about to make these three al-Qaeda leaders appear omniscient to the Muslim world.

When more non-Muslim troops arrive in Somalia and the 9 January referendum divides Sudan, three things will be clear to Muslims worldwide.
1.) Under the Bush administration, Washington supported the destruction of Somalia’s Islamic Courts regime via an invasion by the army of Christian Ethiopia. Under Bush and now under Obama, Washington supports a non-Islamic, UN-mandated government which is seen by Somalis as illegitimate and holds a small portion of the capital of Mogadishu only because it is supported by a non-Muslim, UN-backed intervention force from Uganda and Burundi. Obama and other Western leaders support the expansion of that force from 8,000 men to 12,000. Needless to say, the size of anti-UN, Somali Islamist forces is growing; al-Qaeda’s footprint in Somalia is spreading and solidifying; and Islamist militancy on Africa’s east coast is intensifying.

2.) As Obama and other Western leaders join together to carve out a new Christian state from Sudanese territory, they are simultaneously taking from Muslim Sudan most of its southern oil-producing region. Today, Sudan is Sub-Saharan Africa’s third largest oil producer, and the sale of that oil produces much of the country’s income ($4.4 billion in 2010). Thus the West is not only intent on depriving Sudan of about half of its territory, but it intends to punish the Islamic regime in Khartoum by giving control over Sudan’s oil reserves to a new Christian state. Confronted by this threat in the south and the growing Western-backed, anti-Islamist military presence to the east in Somalia, it is not surprising that Sudan’s President Bashir has promised to further Islamicize the remaining rump of his country. This act is certain to create more — not less — Muslim-Christian fighting in Sudan, and to bring in more aid from al-Qaeda and like-minded groups, as well as from countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuawit, and the UAE.

3.) The creation of new largely Christian state in southern Sudan also will be seen by Muslims as yet another example of the theft by other faiths of historically Muslim land. Whether it is Kashmir, now held by India 60 years after the UN promised a plebiscite to see if Muslim Kashmiris want to be part of that Hindu state; the extraction of East Timor from Muslim Indonesia by a UN-led military force to create a new Christian state; the growing presence of Christian forces in Muslim Somalia; or the occupation of Muslim Palestine by Christian-backed Jews to create a Jewish state, coming events in Sudan will again underline the Muslim world’s perception that its lands are always ripe for picking by other the politicians and military forces of other faiths.

Thus, the Western-led secession of southern Sudan will again validate much of what bin Laden and other Islamist leaders have told Muslims to expect from their Christian, Jewish, and Hindu enemies: invasion, occupation, annexation, and loss of natural resources, especially oil. And given that perception is always reality, this assessment by much of the Muslim world will lead directly to enhancing the popular appeal of a jihad that has as one of its key missions the recovery of stolen Muslim lands.
At day’s end, Washington’s sponsorship of or participation in Western and/or UN-led interventionism in Africa drains the U.S. treasury; gives the needs of foreigners priority over those of Americans; causes more warfare; and negates what has been called the “proper influence of our republican example.”

And in the case of the Obama administration’s support for expanding the UN-led occupation of Muslim Somalia and the carving up of Muslim Sudan, U.S. interventionism will lead to more Islamist attacks in the United States. It is well known that U.S.-citizen Muslim Somalis are increasingly involved in planning and participating in such actions in America and abroad because of their anger over the Western-backed UN intervention in Somalia. Now Washington, by championing the theft of half the territory and most of the energy resources of Muslim Sudan under a referendum designed to create a new Christian state, will provide the impetus and justification for similar actions by U.S.-citizen Muslim Sudanese.

This seems a high price for ordinary Americans to pay just so Obama, McCain, the Clintons, and the spoiled Hollywood libertines can feel good about themselves. After thanking Allah for their folly, I hope Osama has the good manners to send all of them a nice thank-you note.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Hi Davidkross, welcome most. I couldn't see this thread before and therefore, couldn't participate in the discussions. Anyhow, let me tell you most of the members that have expressed reservations about the presence of US-NATO forces in Afghanistan here have not done so due to any association with Islmo-fascism. They have done so due to nationlist sentiments arising from Pashtuns' sense of alienation.

However, there are some participants who try to hide their Islamo-fascist inclination behind other facades. The opposition to the intervention of the civilized world against barbarism doesn't spring from any love of America or concern for its future as some individuals "existing" in the heart of America and living like parasites on its resources pretend on this forum. It is more for the love Pan-Islamist fascism.

Regarding parasitism, hardly, my friend. We were born, live, and pay our taxes here. We've had David Krosses as our college friends and our apartment roommates while you were living with your FOB factory friends in apartments eating tikka masalaa together. We view you as the parasites and want you all to go back home as soon as possible so that you can lead that elite squadron headed by M16/MazlumMasud. You can serve as the chaplain for their causes and give them stirring speeches about how they are fighting Chinese/Russian/Islamo fasciscm as they shoot farmers in Wana and Karz. David and I, in the mean while, can share a steak at the Texas Roadhouse swapping stories about life instead of joining your death cult.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Yes, Camelism/Arabism/Beduinism and its nexus with Ismlamo-Indic fascism lead by Punjabis seeking expansion into Central Asia via Afghanistan doesn't exits whereas the so-called US imperialism exists, haan? This but can be only the logic of some DESERT mentality.

The fact you even have to invent these terminology is just blatant evidence of their forgery and mystification because it shows that no natural analogy to Imperialist concocted Nationalism and other diversions and mechanisms they use to create deterioration.

the accusation of "logic of some Desert mentality" is also a popular Orientalist Imperialist crafted lampoon/caricature derived out of their Divide and Rule politics, hatred for anyone not of Northern European extraction, hatred for the Natural Environment and desire to exploit. Reflecting such a superficial and inaccurate outsiders portrayal of societies and cultures it seeks to corrupt.

The parroting of typical culturally arrogant prejudicial Imperialist Orientalist rhetoric demonstrates there's a Racially Bigoted Farangy hand inserting itself into you puppeteering you on what to say and pulling the strings of your anxiety driven feelings of European imposed inferiority.

[tor_khan]

Administrator note

REMINDER

Members are reminded to think carefully before submitting posts. We do not stand by racism or posts that malign Islam.

Posts deemed to violate House Rules will result in Infraction Notices.

See http://www.pashtunforums.com/support...-conduct-3301/

[ScimitarXEdge]

The support for the struggle of the civilized world against barbarism/camelism doesn't spring from any inferiority complex but a very genuine fear and a rational perception of the threat to their way of life, culture, and native identity from a desert ideology that is seeking revival of camel power at the cost of poor people.

Finally you reveal your true colors and the true agenda you're working for.

The typical Imperial Dialogue of their Corrupt Agenda to Exploit and spread corruption is this Manufactured Dichotomy of "Civilized" and Barbaric"

The historical chronicles of Imperialism always found the use of terms like "Barbaric" for the people they sought to corrupt and exploit, this was especially true in the Great Game era when the British used such terminology like "Barbaric" Afghan tribes who only wanted to adhere to the Honorable Values of their Islamic faith, and reject this infidel decadence that was creeping upon them. Or when they exclaimed "barbaric" to the Vietnamese who just wanted to resist Americans trying to teach their daughters to be reduced to prostitutes in Saigon. Or "Barbaric" to the Native Americans who lived in harmony with Nature, and rejected the European Imperialist's crooked version of "Progress" and "Modernization" through destroying the Natural Environment for wasteful Industry.

While at the same time they portrayed their immoral, indecent and dysfunctional way of life "Civilized"; in some forced, manufactured and pretentious attempt to delude themselves and others of it's moral validity; that they were "intervening" upon these "Barbaric" peoples to lead them to their warped idea of Progress.

It's a typical Imperialist tactic to project on others characteristics which are only true about themselves; for example Parasitism, the Capitalist imperialists impose their corruption institutions upon the entire globe while destroying global ecosystems and natural environment in the process. This is the epitome of parasitism yet somehow they scream foul and falsely accuse parasitism when people only use because of imposing corruption on the global society. The Idea of "Civilized" itself is a veiled attempt at threatening other's way of life and native identity; yet their lackeys and cronies are claiming it on others. Islam has been culturally interwoven into the way of life of peoples of West and Central Asia as can be seen through out known Afghan history; yet the current Imperial Agenda and Ploy is to make it seem as if Islam is equated with Arabism or manufacturing extremist groups like Al-Qaeda to create stigma of Islam in it's traditional environments to portray it as something foreign and alien to those societies; and then attempting to posture some nebulous and historically ambiguous connections to Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Paganism and other ideologies which have already become sold-out and have agreed to take a compliant, subservient role to Capitalist Imperialist Hegemony. Yet being evidently false especially with Pashtoons and even with Tajiks as most of the prominent figures of Pashtoon culture and way of life that Pashtoons refer to were devout Muslims; Ahmad Shah Durrani, Sher Shah Souri, Mir Wais Khan Hotaki, Faqir of Ipi, Haji Turangzai, Wazir Akbar Khan. Yet we can't find any identifiably Pashtoon or Tajik or even Kurd in any Hindu or Buddhist literature; strange eh?

In Summary, the rhetoric and those who peddle this "civilized vs. barbarism" rhetoric are not trying to stop encroachment of traditional Pashtoon or Middle Eastern/Central Asian way of life; rather they're trying to cultivate it for the ecroachment of Capitalist Imperialist Hegemony. In other words they're fakes who are cronies of Farangyan

Congratulations on being exposed..

[ScimitarXEdge]

REMINDER

Members are reminded to think carefully before submitting posts. We do not stand by racism or posts that malign Islam.

Posts deemed to violate House Rules will result in Infraction Notices.

See http://www.pashtunforums.com/support...-conduct-3301/

It's good you have these rules

BUT at the same time, when people speak in such a manner; it reveals their true colors (no pun intended). We should allow these individuals to foolishly expose themselves so that others are not swayed by their motives.

[Alchemist]

Yes, and those that should have been irritated have actually been...So much for Afghan pretentions.

Flies can bug me, but not you toramana ;p

I am laughing because you are making up words that not even hard core Imperialists/colonists have in their own vocabulary. This is what scares everyone about you...that you are more single minded on this idea that Islam is the threat...even more so than the crusaders themselves. I mean even Cheny and Bush express doubt from time to time about the means to their ends but not you. You have taken up their lies as your core belief...and in doing so have wronged your self first, now you want others to join you. Where as your seniors are more exact in their planning, all you seem to show is blind faith. Faith that eventually the US will wash out Islam from Afghanistan and surrounding regions...then everyone there will be just as "modernized/western" as you...then you can be like the indians and the latinos...looking to impress the western world with your disco version of attan and tabla. That's your fantasy bro....and that is where it will stay ...with the mermaid, santaclause and the seven headed dragon ..so called islamo-hinidi-arabi-punjab-facism.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Flies can bug me, but not you toramana ;p

I am laughing because you are making up words that not even hard core Imperialists/colonists have in their own vocabulary. This is what scares everyone about you...that you are more single minded on this idea that Islam is the threat...even more so than the crusaders themselves. I mean even Cheny and Bush express doubt from time to time about the means to their ends but not you. You have taken up their lies as your core belief...and in doing so have wronged your self first, now you want others to join you. Where as your seniors are more exact in their planning, all you seem to show is blind faith. Faith that eventually the US will wash out Islam from Afghanistan and surrounding regions...then everyone there will be just as "modernized/western" as you...then you can be like the indians and the latinos...looking to impress the western world with your disco version of attan and tabla. That's your fantasy bro....and that is where it will stay ...with the mermaid, santaclause and the seven headed dragon ..so called islamo-hinidi-arabi-punjab-facism.

The unfortunate thing he does for his movement of nationalism is that by utilizing this tone and making these aggressive arguments, he actually marginalizes any role true Pashtun nationalism might play in helping our people. At times I do not get what his true motivations are... is it to be on here and cause people to severely dislike nationalists (many of whom are not as far gone as he is)? The rhetoric he uses like "Camel" just makes his point get lost. I mean who was more nationalistic than Ahmad Shah Durrani.... and he should consider... would Ahmad Baba want to sit in the same room as him when he hears these terminologies heaped on people? Who would beloved Mir Wais Neka want to sit with?

[tor_khan]

RE: Moderation/House Rules Etc.

It's good you have these rules

BUT at the same time, when people speak in such a manner; it reveals their true colors (no pun intended). We should allow these individuals to foolishly expose themselves so that others are not swayed by their motives.

ScimitarXEdge - Salaam & PaKhair,

Various opinions on this:

1. People instinctively like to know their boundaries so that they can stay within them.
2. Same as above, but people like to cross boundaries.
3. People are not aware of boundaries.
4. People have a vague notion that they exist but need reminding.
5. Boundaries are crossed and some-one [like me] should follow up and take action.

I like the idea of open debate and sometimes when I watch from the clouds, I have to swallow deep and hard, keep schtum and let the debate run its course. Now and then I drop a thought or idea and join the debate. Other times, I have to intervene.

Oh, and the idea of "exposing one's colours" for others to learn to avoid/learn from would be great if it happened in the real lives we live away from our computer screens. If only, it were like that. You'll probably not be surprised at the number of times I see people come close to "exposing" themselves so that you'd think they were finally caught out ... but then others around them continue as if everything were just the same ...

Frankly, human reasoning and behaviours continue to mystify me ...

... And now back to topic, ladies and gents ...

[ScimitarXEdge]

Tor Khan


I respect your rules of engagement and your role in maintaining the quality of this forum and I understand as someone who's in charge of administration that you have a role to play and regulating the forum.

Personally I enjoy this responses and am eager when they display such mentality, because it's like smoking out a snake from it's hole. I feel I'm doing a great service for humanity by intellectually smashing apart all their absurdities with factual and accurate information.