Afghanistan vs Iraq.

[graveyardofempires]

Scimitar...that is my whole point. We are all held hostage by the works of a few. The Taliban, whether they meant to or not, aided Al Queda. Al Queda attacked the US, now we are all embroiled in this ****. It wasn't the fault of an Afghan, Pashtun or us Americans...but it happened and now it is what it is.

By the way...on another tangent...Are the Taliban's strict interpretations of Islam followed by the average Afghan?

dude you were not going to get political here. were you?
the people in afghanistan dont know that 9/11 was an inside job as americans know.and osama is justa scapegoat this whole thing is fight against Afghanistan,otherwise why would they let osama go when they had the chance.and why do you guys have trade with osama family.
the fact is that america toppeled Afghan government and installed Karzai and brought back the gang of warlords dispised by all Afghans.
taliban might not have been perfect according to your american mentality but they actually were moderate people.
they actually gave women more right than before,disarmed the people,gave security,amd solved land disputes.those mentioned are things which were needed at the time and you maybe thinking why didnt they have mc donalds..

[graveyardofempires]

Also David, let's suppose Americans want to support Afghanistan and make it the next Germany[Americans are partially responsible for Germany being Europe's largest economy]Is bringing War-lords to the government really the way to go by it? Had the USA been constructing top notch Universities and hospitals, I am sure every average Afghan would have embraced you with open arms.

how did america made germany,are you seriouse?
i mean i think it was the other way around .
it were the german scientists who helped america get far.

[khushal]

@DavidKross,

In Reality, the American people dont really have a say in the wars in afghanistan or iraq. Corporations do. If corporations can spend millions of dollars to influence public opinion, then public opinion doesnt really matter because its influenced.

The war in afghanistan doesnt even make sense. Pakistans ISI is financed by American taxpayers, The ISI finances the Taliban, taliban are killing american soldiers. So in essence america is financing a war thats killing its on soldiers. You have to ask yourself who benifits from all this. The only ones I could think of is corporations that profit from war. Who are the corporations that are making billions from the war in afghanistan and Iraq.

Ask yourself these questions. Why did the US and the Saudis refuse to accept bin laden in 1996 when Sudan's government was open to to transferring him to one of those countries.

If the US invaded afghanistan(a country of 25 million people) to get Bin Laden, why are they not invading North Waziristan( a region of less than a million people) to get Bin Laden. It doesnt make sense.

US special op soldiers had surounded Bin laden in Tora Bora, Why did their supperiors refuse to give them air suppport and more american soldiers when US special op were rquesting it, That refusal let Bin Laden escape. It doesnt make sense.

Why did bush say the following:
YouTube - Bush Caught Lying About September 11th

It doesnt make sense.

Why did the US fund madrasas(religious schools) and print the religious material here in the US to exreminize the afghan population in pakistani refugee camps.

I can go on and on but David, the afghan people are not the enemies of the american people it is corporate greed that is the enemy. The US soldiers are brainwashed into thinking they are fighting for freedom but in reality they are fighting and sacrificed for corporate greed.

[khushal]

how did america made germany,are you seriouse?
i mean i think it was the other way around .
it were the german scientists who helped america get far.

america spent less on germany and Japan to rebuild it than it has in afghanistan and Iraq even after adjusting for inflation. I read an article where America has spent $33 billion on iraqi infrastrucure and they dont even have electricity in certain parts of baghdad. Its ridiculous.

Admin is talking about that they put the right people to administer germany, not war lords like they did in afghanistan. The intention for germany was to rebuild it and make it strong, the intention for afghanistan is to keep it weak and in anarchy, to keep the afghan people in misery.

[randolph85]

You cannot compare the 2. Iraq had social/govt institutions for decades, not to mention infrastructure. What this means is that even with a regime change, these things are still intact. Afghanistan on the other hand barely had any of these things even during Zahir Shahs days, let alone in the last couple of decades. Afghanistan at its current rate of progress will need a couple of decades before its at 2010 Iraq's level.

[Shayesta]

Iraq's issues;
-Shia versus Sunni conflicts.
-Though NATO has mainly left.
-Might split into two countries, Shia-Sunni land.

Afghanistan's issues;
-Durrand Line solutions.
-Ethnic tension.
-Troubling neighbors (and they complain of the very same).
-USA ain't thinking of leaving soon enough.
-If they leave then 'hi' to Pakistan and Iran again.
-Most possibly used for another war between some other super-powers.
-If divided, divided into several pieces.
-Pukhtoons at loss either way.

Hmm, now who could possibly at more loss!? :/

[ScimitarXEdge]

Great stuff all...see, I wouldn't get this from a textbook or Wikipedia. I can feel the passion, and that is what it is all about. But, I am not here to argue about things. I can see that we are going to have differences. Some of the things mentioned absolutely blow me away, in that I can't believe people think this way. AND I am sure this is reciprocal on the way you would view my thoughts.

If everything was as clear as you are trying to make it or as clear as I think things are, then we wouldn't have wars. All sides have their own perspectives in which allows little room for maneuver. Pashtuns are obviously a very proud people and have a strong warrior pedigree. And of course a history that makes America's look like a blip on the radar screen.

There is no way you could convince me that the Taliban were/are good...just no way. For every piece of evidence you put forth to show their worth, I could produce something that refutes it. We could play that game all day. Likewise, I will never convince you that American culture, democracy, and football (American) are all great. It just won't happen. So, I am not going to try...don't even want to. I just want to learn what makes Afghans and Pashtuns tick so that I can try and have some positive influence in some way when I go there.

We are there. I am going. There is nothing that is going to change that right now...so the way I look at it, is how can I or we make things better. We are the uninvited guests to this party, so it is obvious we should be asking the host what it is we should do.

Then David I cannot guarantee your safety nor will I hope for it; sorry. My compassion ends where your military and Institutions that Uphold your Status Quo begins.

. I feel bad though you seemed like a decent fellow.

[darwezkhail]

Scimitar is my best friend now..

[darwezkhail]

scimitar wrora,

tase der kha jawab warka de khra ta. afarenn.

sta wror,

hekmatullah

[khushal]

There is no way you could convince me that the Taliban were/are good...just no way. For every piece of evidence you put forth to show their worth, I could produce something that refutes it. We could play that game all day. Likewise, I will never convince you that American culture, democracy, and football (American) are all great. It just won't happen. So, I am not going to try...don't even want to. I just want to learn what makes Afghans and Pashtuns tick so that I can try and have some positive influence in some way when I go there.

We are there. I am going. There is nothing that is going to change that right now...so the way I look at it, is how can I or we make things better. We are the uninvited guests to this party, so it is obvious we should be asking the host what it is we should do.

The afghan people are not your hosts, you are their by force so inreality there is no host, unless you call the puppet government your host. That host will ask you to keep pouring money in so they and the american contractors can steal it.
I dont know how you could say the Taliban are bad and the american government is good when it was the american government that created it. If one is bad, they are both bad, and if one is good, then they are both good. Dont contradict yourself.

[Alchemist]

Davidkross, Americans pay $800,000 a year to keep you in Afghanistan...


... in Iraq the cost would be $500K.

I am assuming it is because you are 10x more likely to die in Afg than in iraq.

Hope that info helps you...

[MazloomYarMasud]

David, ISI wants you out, I think America should stay till the whole region is cleared of Arab-Punjabi Terrorist Nexus groups.

I think you should worry more about the Terrorist supporters in your own country, most of them here are from Canada and America not Afghanistan.

Kind Regards

[ScimitarXEdge]

Pure CIA invented false red herring; using its stooges to take the fall for them.

Anyone who has any knowledge about current geopolitics or is in touch with reality knows ISI is an extension of the CIA and exists by their financial support , training and directives. "Terorrism" and Ethnic Conflict (Arab-Punjabi nexus) is a smokescreen for their Imperial Designs/ divide and rule schemes.

This support of America on the pretext of fighting terrorism is really a disguise for sold out inferiority complex driven south Asian cronies to serve their Imperial Master's agenda.

[Alchemist]

David, ISI wants you out, I think America should stay till the whole region is cleared of Arab-Punjabi Terrorist Nexus groups.

I think you should worry more about the Terrorist supporters in your own country, most of them here are from Canada and America not Afghanistan.

Kind Regards

Well I think this post should be emailed to Mannoni as proof of his "Dependency complex" theory...in which he states that colonized people are in need of white men to lord over them because they are infantile/primitive/archaic. And white man needs to lord over others because they are "paternalistic". Mannoni justified his position by assuming that "inferiority complex" was inherent to natives before the arrival of white men. You make an intriguing case mazloom...I shall collect more data to analyze the hypothesis of Fanon.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

David, ISI wants you out, I think America should stay till the whole region is cleared of Arab-Punjabi Terrorist Nexus groups.

I think you should worry more about the Terrorist supporters in your own country, most of them here are from Canada and America not Afghanistan.

Kind Regards

Dear MazloomYarMasud (M16?) you ought to relieve poor David of having to fight the conflict that is all yours. I suggest that you talk to Lindsey Graham, Obama, W, and maybe Miss Clinton, as well as Mr. Karzai and Mr. malik across the border and you guys form a special operations forces unit. Perhaps David and his colleagues can train you guys how to fight in such rugged terrain.

Then I think we ought to air drop your "elite" team into Marjah or North Waziristan and allow you to take care of your own issues. That way David can continue to teach 7th graders that need him around and can also take his wife and kids to church every Sunday, and you can fight your war directly on the ground.

If you are good enough, we can even throw in Bill Kristol and Professor Kagan as the tank drivers.