Afghanistan vs Iraq.

[Admin Khan]

Admin Khan - no doubt! I often tell my students, "what would you do if some other country sent soldiers here and started pushing us around?" I get it.

Exactly.

But...you are guiltyy of what I was saying. The Americans you refer to is the government...that's wwho is marginalizing, not Americans in general.

Dear David, I urge you to re-read my post. No where did I assert such a claim. I, from the beginning, was speaking solely about the government. I am rational enough to admit that you and I have no say in what happens behind closed doors in D.C. I clearly said something along those lines. Blaming average Americans is wrong, since not every American supports American troops in Afghanistan.

And...again, I can not argue against the pushiness of America...especially of its religious missions who think it is their obligation to shove Christianity down peoples throats. Can't argue it. What I can argue is that most Americans want to do the right thing. Most of us wnat to support and aid, not manipulate and oppress.

I wholeheartedly agree. Americans are very caring people. David, don't you think since I was born in America, I would know this? I never doubted that. All I am saying is the current governments policy towards Pashtuns is nothing but poison. Many Americans can't even find Afghanistan on the map, let alone justify the war.

Obviously you and many Afghans feel that we are invaders. That sucks. What do we do now though? It is what it is.

Afghans want you to leave them alone, and if you truly want to assist them, don't throw bombs on them. If you want to get rid of extremism, find out the roots of terrorism. Find out where the terrorists are training, according to various sources, the terrorists are nurtured in neighboring Pakistan.

Lastly...your point of Afghans not attacking the US is very poignant. Another thing I have no argument against. But who did? Where did they train? What would you have done?

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, so I'd rather not comment. One thing that is now clear is that it was not Pashtuns/Afghans. We Pashtuns are peace-loving. We are famous for our 5thousand year old culture based on hospitality and respect.

[Admin Khan]

Also David, let's suppose Americans want to support Afghanistan and make it the next Germany[Americans are partially responsible for Germany being Europe's largest economy]Is bringing War-lords to the government really the way to go by it? Had the USA been constructing top notch Universities and hospitals, I am sure every average Afghan would have embraced you with open arms.

[davidkross]

Admin Khan - I came across these article the other day...somewhat on point for our discussion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051404320.html

http://home.honolulu.hawaii.edu/~pin...00/pashtun.htm

So...what would you have done if you were the president of the United States after 9/11?

[davidkross]

Admin Khan...exactly! That is why I am here at this site. I am only one person, but I think I can have an influence on many. What can we do to make it better? Realizing the "we" is open minded folks like ourselves. Whether I like it or not...I am going to Afghanistan...I have certain resources. What can I do to help out all of us?

[Admin Khan]

Admin Khan - I came across these article the other day...somewhat on point for our discussion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051404320.html

http://home.honolulu.hawaii.edu/~pin...00/pashtun.htm

So...what would you have done if you were the president of the United States after 9/11?

1)Carefully assess the situation.
2)Find out who it was, The US being the most technologically advanced nation in the word, It's not hard for them to find out which nation plotted this against them, and which political group assisted them and funded them.
3)After finding out who it was, I would have provided proof to the respective government, asked to extradite those set of people, have them tried in American courts, and later deal with accordingly.
4)Strengthen the FAA, to prevent future attacks.

I would certainly not invade a country full of innocent people, that had nothing to do with the war, and begin bombarding them just because a few of the individuals demanded for proof.

[Admin Khan]

Admin Khan...exactly! That is why I am here at this site. I am only one person, but I think I can have an influence on many. What can we do to make it better? Realizing the "we" is open minded folks like ourselves. Whether I like it or not...I am going to Afghanistan...I have certain resources. What can I do to help out all of us?

Aid does not come for free. And Afghans are aware of that. However, ask your team to stop marginalizing Pashto and Pashtuns. The more Pashtuns are marginalized, the more the Americans will be defeated by Pashtuns.

[kakargirl]

i agree with admin khan on kandahar and helmand i know my familys back there in theses parts are very angry towards america they dont see any logical reason to why the americans are there what for and to be honest too much has happened in these areas .

[kakargirl]

david one man like you can't make a difference if a majority think like you then a difference can be made , that means people in higher positions too , its been ten years for this war people have been damaged emotionally you cant fix that i see it in my own families back there they've become numb the other day my uncles son called i told him to stay safe at the end he said well for america all pushtuns are talibans what ever my fate is it will be this is the thought of a average afghan pushtun back there in kandahar and helmand area and out skirts .

[ScimitarXEdge]

Kakargirl and Admin Khan - Thank you for your insightfulness...believe me, it is refreshing and eye opening to hear from you. I have to go here though...please don't take this disrespectfully:

You say the Afghans have no idea why the US is there. How do they not know about 9/11? Are they getting free and unbiased news reports. Do they have access to internet etc? Not once have you mentioned the Taliban. Were they not in control of Afghanistan regions that allowed Al Queda to train for an attack on the US?

This is my point...It was not the Afghan or Pashtun people, but they were hijacked by the Taliban (government in charge). As arrogant or ignorant as this may sound...how could Afghans/Pashtuns not know that?

It's true that Bin Laden and his network were there under the auspice of the Taliban; but Taliban are not technically savvy for the most part. From their perspective they saw a few "Muslim Brothers" who are training to fight for Muslim causes abroad, probably had little to no idea of what they were planning. This isn't an apology for the Taliban; but given what the Taliban described for what went on.

[ScimitarXEdge]

depends, I mean some Afghans have views stricter than the Taliban on some issues; like when it comes to women, more rural Pashtoons have had extremely strict views about women's behavior and their future. comparatively Taliban were laxed

when it comes to entertainment; music and games, Pashtoons are playful people and enjoy arts and games, Taliban shunned those. So in that respects no.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I think it's wrong to say "aided" since aiding implies conspiring with Al-Qaeda. I think that would be incorrect.

America could have taken the diplomatic route though, what's so hard with presenting evidence and then the Taliban would have handed over Bin Laden peacefully?

[kakargirl]

david the answer to this is that our culture is mixed in islam too like my own family the culture is more stricter than the islam its self its a thing about honour being more important than anything but you will find afghans there that are not so strict it depends on what family your from what tribe your from whats your lineage .

[Admin Khan]

You say the Afghans have no idea why the US is there. How do they not know about 9/11?

Because they were not associated with that act. This is like me questioning you about a robbery that happened to my friend in Salvador. If I invade your house, chances are, you won't know either.

Are they getting free and unbiased news reports. Do they have access to internet etc? Not once have you mentioned the Taliban. Were they not in control of Afghanistan regions that allowed Al Queda to train for an attack on the US?

The Afghans asked for proof. Was proof given to the Taliban? In fact, did they not conduct a meeting in which they asked for proof?

This is my point...It was not the Afghan or Pashtun people, but they were hijacked by the Taliban (government in charge). As arrogant or ignorant as this may sound...how could Afghans/Pashtuns not know that?

Afghans/Pashtuns did not fly in airplanes to attack the Americans, so when they see American people in their land, won't they be confused? Won't they be like "What are you doing here?", "I did not visit New York, why are you visiting my Kandahar?", " I don't control JFK Airport, why are you controlling Kandahar international Airport?". Would the aforementioned not be natural reflexes? Pashtuns are being demonized David. What you are witnessing is Pashtun nationalism, they are upset at the Americans for invading their land, when they did not plan 9/11. No offense to my Pashtun brothers, but we are not capable of such an attack(9/11) to begin with. We simply lack the resources and intellect needed to conduct international attacks.

Caveat:
Pashtuns have a very rich history David, they defeated almost every empire you can think of.

[Admin Khan]

I think it's wrong to say "aided" since aiding implies conspiring with Al-Qaeda. I think that would be incorrect.

America could have taken the diplomatic route though, what's so hard with presenting evidence and then the Taliban would have handed over Bin Laden peacefully?

Bingo.

You have won a free trip to North Korea.

[khushal]

@schmitar,
You cant really compare casualty ratio on who is more organized in fighting. Nato has better equipment and stronger firepower, and so did all the empires that entered afghanistan. It wasnt afghan firepower or organized attacks that defeated the empires, it was pashtunwali. It was the code that pashtuns live by that prevents pashtuns from submitting.
The real invasion of afghanistan actually happened in 2008, before that it was more of a special op soldier operation.

The comparison you can make in a scenerio with equal firepower and equipment was the famous battle between france and germany during WW2. Where they fought a proxy war with each other in spains civil war before WW2. Germans learned everything they needed to learn about the french army, firepower and how they used the firepower(stratagy) and when the germans attacked france, the french stratagy was focused on bigger firepower and a less mobile army. The germans on the other hand had a more mobile army and focused less on the strength of firepower. Since the french were not mobile and the germans attacked with speed, the french had no choice but to retreat and leave their equipment to the advancing germans.
You cant apply that with afghanistan or iraq. Its not a chess game where all parties have equal amount of pieces.

Suicide bombers are used because it is an effective tactic. I dont agree with it but your not going to stop people from using it just by calling it stupid. In reality secularists have employed this tactic more often than so called religious fanatics.