Women and Sport...

[faye]

because men are weak perverts, women must remain covered? maybe men should wear those blinker things like they put on horses, lol

[Pakhtunzai]

Oh that's clever, blame men and let the world carry on its own merry way. So there's nothing wrong with the women? What of the ones who portray themselves as sex objects in the movies of hollywood, or in the television. You don't think that could influence young girls to behave in a certain way which could trigger certain responses in men. Now I'm not justifying the men, there is wrong from both sides. But there is a reason why in the old testament of the bible it tells women to cover themselves up as well as the quran, to assist them in protecting their chastity. Many english and american women have come to learn the truth to covering themselves up, there brings a value to them, more respect is obtained as well as maintaining decency.

[faye]

so isn't the reason for covering women because they are seen as sex objects and the men can't be trusted?

[Pakhtunzai]

We were genetically engineered as humans to have attractions for the opposite sex no matter what. In this case both men and women can't be trusted. Which is why we get married and stick to the partner we promise to spend our entire life with. And also why islam was given to us as a way of life, no god fearing man would dare look at a women the wrong way let alone touch her.

[faye]

so why don't the men have to cover up too?

[~Gangster~]

Faye your saying why as if these rules were made by humans...these are the orders of Allahswt. He made it sunnah for the men to cover there heads but its fard on a woman to wear a hijab. We cant question why it is made this way becausE we dont have knowledge of what is actually good for us.

[Laila]

You wouldnt mind your sister wearing clothes that clearly display her private parts and to top it off be watched by men as she jumps up and down or whatever athletic activities she does??

May Allah have mercey on you if you ever have a daughter.

No offense wrora, But you do boxing right? Dont you feel that at times a female is in the audience, Muslim or not, but she may also see you in your attire, or whatever it is that boxers wear.....its usually no top, right? But i just want to know that what goes through your head sometimes. I know it is not in your control if women do attend your matches or not.

As far as this thread goes, here is my two cent.

I encourage women to be physically active; however, in a proper way. I do think that women should be covered, in loose gym clothes.....so no skimpy tight leggings or spandex stuff. I think it should be within the same gender as well. If a team in Afghanistan for women can do this, with female coaches, refs, and female audience, then i do encourage it.

I remember when it was my first year in middle school (junior high school) and i went on the try-outs for the volleyball team. the moment i stepped into the gym, i saw the girls wearing only their sports bras and spandex shorts, right away i left and never turned back. I was really good in sports, but i didnt join a team because not only did my family not permit me to do so but also because i didnt feel comfortable.

Harris wrora, i am curious of your input

[sunni]

so why don't the men have to cover up too?

allah asked women to wear for lots of reasons the reaons we know are for Compliance to allah, sign for her decency and Modesty its against look at womens as a sex objects....and to save the honor, do you ppl know whats the honor? NO i think the pigs dont gives a **** about whats happening to thier females....the only animal who dnt feel jealous is the pig...other animals fight against each other if some of em did wrong to thier females....so humens kill each other sometime when it come to thier females hijab is to protect em more from this ppl.

u may get confuse but to clear one thing i didnt call you a pig.

[Laila]

so why don't the men have to cover up too?

Men have to cover up as well. They have to wear loose clothing, covering their private parts, and their legs have to be covered from waist to below the knee.

The reason why you see Pashtuns wear that trouser and long top is because men are supposed to wear a long top (that fully covers the back area) and loose trousers.

[faye]

allah asked women to wear for lots of reasons the reaons we know are for Compliance to allah, sign for her decency and Modesty its against look at womens as a sex objects....and to save the honor, do you ppl know whats the honor? NO i think the pigs dont gives a **** about whats happening to thier females....the only animal who dnt feel jealous is the pig...other animals fight against each other if some of em did wrong to thier females....so humens kill each other sometime when it come to thier females hijab is to protect em more from this ppl.
u may get confuse but to clear one thing i didnt call you a pig.

you people? i am myself, not a bunch of people.
this little piggy was allowed to make her own decisions about what it wanted to do since a young child. i have been swimming in bathers at beaches with thousands of other males and females and never been molested, in that situation. so, a large majority of the pigs are not sex crazed maniacs who get excited over a view of female flesh, mr/miss/mrs sunni.
anyway, when women are allowed to use their own minds, they will choose for themselves whether they want to do sports or not.

[Gulalai]

faye, women obviously are allowed to use their own minds.
muslim women choose to obey Allah. Honestly i dont get what is so hard to understand about the concept of hijab? Its not like men are allowed to roam the streets half naked while women should be completely covered -_- thats just nonsense pulled by people who dont want to understand Islam. There is obviously a clear distinction between a man and a woman. I think when it comes to talking about men & woman's hijab thats the first thing that needs to be underlined. Of course men and women are equal to Allah but they're physically and mentally different. Saying that it's harder for men to lower their gaze than it is for woman isn't an excuse its a fact whether you want to believe it or not. and calling muslim men "sex-crazed" is offensive so watch it In western society it sounds so wrong to say that men and woman are different so they try to promote one becoming more like the other (lol feminists for example), which leads to some thinking that one might be superior to the other (like men retaliating feminists :P) which leads to confusion. But i dont think its not wrong to admit that men have their roles and their powers just as women have their roles and their powers.

eh, kind of got off topic but whatever.
oh and modesty isn't just to prevent being molested faye... come on you know better than that.

[faye]

it's funny for me to see how, you can be living in the west and still have such a narrow view of what equality means. it does not mean that men and women are not different but it does mean that if a woman wants to be a builders labourer, a lifesaver at the beach, or any other profession that a man does, that she is physically capable of doing, she be allowed to.
i can only assume that your closed mind to anything positive in your country full of 'pigs' as sunni would say, keeps you patting your back as to your superiority, gulalai.

if you can't interpret correctly what i wrote, just go back to playing your coy games on random thoughts.

[Haris]

Harris wrora, i am curious of your input

Hmm, it's a tricky one.
Before I proceed, I want to note that my views are not set in stone. I am always open to changing my opinion on any matter if I see the logic in doing so.
That is why I made this thread in the first place, to hear your views, to see the merits of your arguments and use that to help make up my own mind on the topic.

Do you support such national sports teams for women?

I'm not a huge fan of professional womens' sports. Not because of any religious/cultural bias. It just simply doesn't interest me and, as stated in the OP, neither does it interest most other people (regardless of gender).

I won't go out of my way to support them but I won't cut them down either.

Do you believe that it is not a woman's place to play sport at all?

Certainly not.
From a religious point of view, we are encouraged to play sports to improve our physical ability.

Women should not be excluded from playing sport. Many vital skills can be learned that help to develop us as people.

I strongly support giving girls/women the opportunities to play sports.

Do you think it is okay as long as certain conditions are met (they wear full clothing or that they are coached only by other women or that their matches are private...etc)?

Well ideally (i'll elaborate why later on).

If you are a woman and you were talented at any sport, would you consider joining the national team?

Can't really answer this one.

Would you ever allow your sisters or daughters to publically participate in such sports, and if so, under what conditions (if any)?

I wouldn't be comfortable with having my sisters/daughters being oggled at by hundreds/thousands/millions of men. I wouldn't be comfortable with them being oggled at by even a single man.

I know that if they were to play sports in a public arena then that would certainly be the case. No doubt about that. Especially in countries like Afghanistan or Pakistan where there is strong gender-segregation (a consequence of which can be seen with the odd google search results emanating from Pakistan).

Just to illustrate that, on facebook where I got the news of the football match with Qatar, there was a photo uploaded showing some of the girls. Underneath there were various comments judging their looks, one guy even said that one of them looked like a dude.



I have heard friends (ex-friends mind you) saying they only watch womens' sports to check the ladies out. Like with tennis and that Maria Sharapova woman.


I would like to think that as a parent, I will have brought my children up with certain values. One of which being a sense of modesty. That is something which is very important to me.

If they have no sense of modesty then I have failed as a parent.

Having said that, I will leave it to them to decide whether they want to participate publicly with such sports. It's their choice, not mine. I would trust them to make the 'right' choice (what ever that means to them) provided they have the ability to think logically for themselves taking into consideration what their culture & religion says. If I am sure that that is the case then who am I to challenge their decision? If they are so sure about what they want to do then no amount of opposition on my part will be enough to stop them.


I would hate to be the one to limit their dreams.
Havintg said that, we all have dreams. Some we find we won't always be able to fulfill because of the pressures of society. Unforfunately we live in societies where certain actions have less than desirable consequences. Sure it would be great if we lived in a perfect world where we didn't have these sexual thoughts about the other gender (LOL actually maybe not)....point is, that's not how it is. It is a reality that men get such thoughts about women. A sad one at that because it limits women from doing certain things in our societies. But that wont change.

For a Pashtun and for a Muslim, a woman's modesty is an important aspect to be guarded. Some may see that as intruding, some may see that as backward. Regardless, it is what it is and it's not going away any time soon.




Now some people evidently don't have a problem with exposing their bodies with tight fitting clothing. Their concept of modesty is different to my own. I have nothing against that, good for them. It just doesn't work for me.


That's my view. Like I said, its open to change & probably will change.




I would also appreciate it if other members could specifically answer the questions set out in the OP.

[Gulalai]

it's funny for me to see how, you can be living in the west and still have such a narrow view of what equality means. it does not mean that men and women are not different but it does mean that if a woman wants to be a builders labourer, a lifesaver at the beach, or any other profession that a man does, that she is physically capable of doing, she be allowed to.
i can only assume that your closed mind to anything positive in your country full of 'pigs' as sunni would say, keeps you patting your back as to your superiority, gulalai.

if you can't interpret correctly what i wrote, just go back to playing your coy games on random thoughts.

how is my view of equality narrow? & living in the west doesnt necessarily mean i have to have a certain set of beliefs or opinions. putting things in context like that just shows that some women in the west feel like they have to prove something to men like being able to be a construction worker lol if she enjoys construction work () then thats a whole other story. plus i didnt say anything about women being allowed to or not allowed to do something, i said western society doesnt like admitting the fact that men and women are different in many aspects, therefore they completely reject even opening their minds to the concept of hijab in Islam like a 3 year-old plugging his or her ears screaming 'i cant hear you, youre wrong'
I really find it ironic that you're calling me closed minded :P

excuse me? you cant pull that one on me faye & dont try to use that as an insult because i wont take it that way, playing games in the hujra brings some fun to the forum ^.^


@Haris wrora, i wrote a response then i deleted it LOL sorry za ba bia bal wakht inshallah bal jawab wolikama >.<

[faye]

gulalai......and says it all, lol.