Do you celebrate Christmas?

[khushal]

Daal Palak (Mung Bean Lentils with Spinach) Recipe | Mareena'''s Recipe Collections

https://iran-israel-observer.com/201...ority-complex/

Persian culture is superior. yay yay

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Please, stop cherrypicking and refute my points. I proved to you that technology changes depending on countries and civilizations, ergo culture and society have a huge role in it. I even proved that you are a product of Western education. You failed to prove me wrong. Ergo I won. :D

Shab bekheir bro.

You're incorrect and making false associations.

The error in your logic is that popular American culture (e.g. things that many Muslims may not do like pole dance, watch the Kardashians, hunt for Easter eggs) are somehow inherently the basis for innovation and technological advances.

Your second error is ignoring conditions that were set into play in the first place. One of the war maneuvers of the Western powers is to create a façade of "choice and freedom." That is, one of the casus belli of Western imperialism is simply:

"We have the right to invade, bomb, and maim because what we seek to bring you is civilizing light you brutish barbarians or at least limit the darkness you seek to impose on us."

So in a way its a logical conundrum and state and ethnic nationalism are only now beginning to realize was the very undoing of their own long term attempts to subjugate not just Muslim regions but Asiatic regions (hence Obama's recent pivot to Asia), Africa, and Latin America.

The problem is that a well fed society begins to ask questions and to read and to learn. So take a case like Afghanistan or Vietnam - a massive portion of the public has taken a stance and took a stance against these wars because they had the chance to learn that there were actually strategic goals and humanism and democracy were merely the shroud clothing the war making to make it palatable.

So the republic responded with the concept of an "all volunteer army" and the West attempted to demonstrate its superiority by claiming it was a multi cultural bastion that would have evolution of thought and incorporate all these new ideas from different places into a melting pot.

Yet in the heat of the wars, whether it was Japanese internment, arming right wing Vietnamese to go after anti war Vietnamese, labeling Latin American dissidents as Godless leftists etc - they had to find labels and ways to counter the narrative that was beginning to put holes in the one they were popularizing.

So for instance the sequence was never:

1) Syrians all get up one day to go West
2) Assad and the Insurgents have it out
3) The group in 1 decides to rebuild little Syria in the West and looks dumb by not "going along to get along"

The reality was:
1) In the early and mid 1900s Brits Russians and French terrorize Syrians and create movements that lead to the rise of Assad I
2) Things sort of even out but outside powers still create some internal angst and issues and the majority population is under the jack boot of a discrete well armed minority
3) The US and Russians and Israelis start destabilizing the country with Europe aiding the effort
4) Syrians finally leave (as any hominoid that is designed to survive would)
5) They end up in places they never asked to be
6) Said places realize that this narrative of "we are super welcoming and super nice" is creating an economic and social problem for them and are slowly decided to go with "we will destroy what we want when we want because we can and no one is going to come here."

Additionally, many scholars have pointed out repeatedly that its not merely émigrés or immigrants that have views on these issues but even folks that stay behind.

The massive Maryland University polling of the Muslim world showed that across the Muslim world Muslims respected the Western education system and technological prowess but disagreed with political motifs - indicating that the two are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, if you were to poll Chinese on the Taiwan issue I am sure they would say that the same thing even though their political ideologies are also variant to Western thought.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Do you celebrate Christmas, guys? Whats your stance on celebrating it?

Well also one other reason is that the man that it claims to celebrate. Its an insult to the life he lived.

The Messiah was against lies. In fact it was one of the traits that got him in the most trouble the most often. He could tolerate many fools but could not tolerate a liar or deviant. When he saw the Sanhedrin practicing pure corruption he dared to call them out in a public platform and earned their hatred and eternal ire.

And what we know from theological papers on the subject is that if one were to go with the NT that The Messiah was not born in December when the West celebrates Christmas or January when the Russians celebrate it - but rather likely in the Spring time.

Further, he was born according to the Hebraic Lunar Calendar and so his birth would rotate.

In a way its the ultimate insult to him to take a day that was a Solar Calendar day devised for a pagan occupier empire and to impose a fabricated birth day for the purpose of worship over it because it was coincident concurrent Greco-Roman pantheon celebrations.

Based on his words and deeds he complied with the old law and that law viewed any and all pagan impositions as a travesty - especially if it was used to coax native peoples with incremental alterations to his original message.

And then on top of it all, to take that day and commercialize it so heavily as to result an orgy of spending and celebration that has little if any benefit to the poor and the needy and for the most part has a few moments of a mass that neglects the details of the man's life and deeds that run completely counter to the erroneous construct being celebrated.

This is why the Puritans actually banned Christmas festivities when they settled the early colonies. As literal purists they understood, to a degree, the glaring contradictions of ideological thought.

[Firdousi]

You're incorrect and making false associations.

The error in your logic is that popular American culture (e.g. things that many Muslims may not do like pole dance, watch the Kardashians, hunt for Easter eggs) are somehow inherently the basis for innovation and technological advances.

Your second error is ignoring conditions that were set into play in the first place. One of the war maneuvers of the Western powers is to create a façade of "choice and freedom." That is, one of the casus belli of Western imperialism is simply:

"We have the right to invade, bomb, and maim because what we seek to bring you is civilizing light you brutish barbarians or at least limit the darkness you seek to impose on us."

So in a way its a logical conundrum and state and ethnic nationalism are only now beginning to realize was the very undoing of their own long term attempts to subjugate not just Muslim regions but Asiatic regions (hence Obama's recent pivot to Asia), Africa, and Latin America.

The problem is that a well fed society begins to ask questions and to read and to learn. So take a case like Afghanistan or Vietnam - a massive portion of the public has taken a stance and took a stance against these wars because they had the chance to learn that there were actually strategic goals and humanism and democracy were merely the shroud clothing the war making to make it palatable.

So the republic responded with the concept of an "all volunteer army" and the West attempted to demonstrate its superiority by claiming it was a multi cultural bastion that would have evolution of thought and incorporate all these new ideas from different places into a melting pot.

Yet in the heat of the wars, whether it was Japanese internment, arming right wing Vietnamese to go after anti war Vietnamese, labeling Latin American dissidents as Godless leftists etc - they had to find labels and ways to counter the narrative that was beginning to put holes in the one they were popularizing.

So for instance the sequence was never:

1) Syrians all get up one day to go West
2) Assad and the Insurgents have it out
3) The group in 1 decides to rebuild little Syria in the West and looks dumb by not "going along to get along"

The reality was:
1) In the early and mid 1900s Brits Russians and French terrorize Syrians and create movements that lead to the rise of Assad I
2) Things sort of even out but outside powers still create some internal angst and issues and the majority population is under the jack boot of a discrete well armed minority
3) The US and Russians and Israelis start destabilizing the country with Europe aiding the effort
4) Syrians finally leave (as any hominoid that is designed to survive would)
5) They end up in places they never asked to be
6) Said places realize that this narrative of "we are super welcoming and super nice" is creating an economic and social problem for them and are slowly decided to go with "we will destroy what we want when we want because we can and no one is going to come here."

Additionally, many scholars have pointed out repeatedly that its not merely émigrés or immigrants that have views on these issues but even folks that stay behind.

The massive Maryland University polling of the Muslim world showed that across the Muslim world Muslims respected the Western education system and technological prowess but disagreed with political motifs - indicating that the two are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, if you were to poll Chinese on the Taiwan issue I am sure they would say that the same thing even though their political ideologies are also variant to Western thought.

Eh, no, sir. American Pop Culture and American science/technology are two different things.. but at the end of the day they are both two sides of the same coin. Some people might like Kardashians, other people might like Edgar Allan Poe but both are part of America´s soft power.

I seriously believe Western countries are superior when it comes to encouraging logical thinking, reasoning and skepticism. These are key elements in science. Muslims don't use to encourage these. We hate introspection, we hate criticism,.. while Westerners use to be very critic with their own world and they are much more open to social and cultural changes.

[DaZahroJaam.]

I got four Kashmiri pashmina shawls, one of which I really like (its blue!), should I throw it back at her face or set it on fire by the sink??

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Eh, no, sir. American Pop Culture and American science/technology are two different things.. but at the end of the day they are both two sides of the same coin. Some people might like Kardashians, other people might like Edgar Allan Poe but both are part of America´s soft power.

I seriously believe Western countries are superior when it comes to encouraging logical thinking, reasoning and skepticism. These are key elements in science. Muslims don't use to encourage these. We hate introspection, we hate criticism,.. while Westerners use to be very critic with their own world and they are much more open to social and cultural changes.

I'm surprised you of all people have a minor inferiority complex (not attempting to be insulting). What I mean is that you are not taking a panoramic view of history and development.

The combination of wealth and autonomy (throw in some ideal geography) is usually enough, when time and being left alone permits, for most societies to progress toward introspective thought, accommodation, and egalitarianism.

Many quickly point to Saudi and attempt to say "well look at them, they are wealthy! Perfect stereotype of Eastern stagnation." Yet even this example is disingenuous. The Saudi Kingdom in its creation was not autonomous and it remains completely dependent for its defense on outside power.

Here is a wonderful short essay by Sir John Glubb collating a history of many empires and detailing the characteristics that led to their egalitarianism and subsequently their fall:

http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

You are merely taking a point in time, i.e. the modern era post 1940 and assuming that the totality of history points toward some sort of superior thought process in the here and now superseding or abrogating all that went before it.

The reality is that power will shift again at some point to some other sphere of influence. This has and will be the way of the world so long as man roams it.

Also, you are only right to a minor degree when you say that the development and entertainment go side by side or hand in hand.

I had the chance to go by Grauman's Chinese Theater once as an aside on a business trip... I had no idea who Sid Grauman was.

His biography was interesting. He discovered his aptitude for entertainment and making money through it in Alaska. His biographer asked him what he learned. His response? He said, I learned that the poor gold rush miners, no matter how poor or destitute or in need (even the most unlucky ones in terms of finding no gold nuggets) would spend money on entertainment to escape their woes/reality.

Or take for instance the masters of war and other sorts of unsavory enterprise... yes, for sure, their trade pushed technological prowess and development forward. But some of the internal gains are offset by the acceleration of a "zero sum game." To sustain this energy hungry beast, so many in the world must needlessly and thoughtlessly lose their dignity, lives, and autonomy as has never been seen before. And so many internally are living in some new "social media" driven reality that has little to do with the truth of the physical world around them.

Clearly, Ray Bradbury's prophesy from Fahrenheit 451 has come to pass. In it he has Alice, the wife of the protagonist pretty much consumed with the "seashell in her ears" that play her music 24/7. While her husband is awakening to the horrors of his dystopia, Alice is deep asleep in the technological entertainment she uses to escape the world.

My point is that introspection and internal development that thrives and prospers off world conflict is hardly something to be lauded. Is it something Romans would have done? Turks had they chance? Perhaps, but those are suppositions and what we live in is a reality that cannot be ignored.

[Firdousi]

I'm surprised you of all people have a minor inferiority complex (not attempting to be insulting). What I mean is that you are not taking a panoramic view of history and development.

The combination of wealth and autonomy (throw in some ideal geography) is usually enough, when time and being left alone permits, for most societies to progress toward introspective thought, accommodation, and egalitarianism.

Many quickly point to Saudi and attempt to say "well look at them, they are wealthy! Perfect stereotype of Eastern stagnation." Yet even this example is disingenuous. The Saudi Kingdom in its creation was not autonomous and it remains completely dependent for its defense on outside power.

Here is a wonderful short essay by Sir John Glubb collating a history of many empires and detailing the characteristics that led to their egalitarianism and subsequently their fall:

http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

You are merely taking a point in time, i.e. the modern era post 1940 and assuming that the totality of history points toward some sort of superior thought process in the here and now superseding or abrogating all that went before it.

The reality is that power will shift again at some point to some other sphere of influence. This has and will be the way of the world so long as man roams it.

Also, you are only right to a minor degree when you say that the development and entertainment go side by side or hand in hand.

I had the chance to go by Grauman's Chinese Theater once as an aside on a business trip... I had no idea who Sid Grauman was.

His biography was interesting. He discovered his aptitude for entertainment and making money through it in Alaska. His biographer asked him what he learned. His response? He said, I learned that the poor gold rush miners, no matter how poor or destitute or in need (even the most unlucky ones in terms of finding no gold nuggets) would spend money on entertainment to escape their woes/reality.

Or take for instance the masters of war and other sorts of unsavory enterprise... yes, for sure, their trade pushed technological prowess and development forward. But some of the internal gains are offset by the acceleration of a "zero sum game." To sustain this energy hungry beast, so many in the world must needlessly and thoughtlessly lose their dignity, lives, and autonomy as has never been seen before. And so many internally are living in some new "social media" driven reality that has little to do with the truth of the physical world around them.

Clearly, Ray Bradbury's prophesy from Fahrenheit 451 has come to pass. In it he has Alice, the wife of the protagonist pretty much consumed with the "seashell in her ears" that play her music 24/7. While her husband is awakening to the horrors of his dystopia, Alice is deep asleep in the technological entertainment she uses to escape the world.

My point is that introspection and internal development that thrives and prospers off world conflict is hardly something to be lauded. Is it something Romans would have done? Turks had they chance? Perhaps, but those are suppositions and what we live in is a reality that cannot be ignored.

Brother this is not "average progress". We are talking about a civilization focused and encouraging it. Progress has become a way of life for many people in the West. I don't know about the USA but here in Europe anti-intellectualism is rejected by most of the people (even by the uneducated ones).

Yeah I do agree that peace and stability are key factors to build stable societies but the thing is Western countries have been growing, non-stop, for the last four centuries, no matter at war or at peace. Dont underestimate it. I seriously appreciate that Western trait basically because I have witnessed how its completely nonexistent in most of the planet (I am a young person but I have been to almost 30 countries).

[~Zarlakhta~]

I don't celebrate it but do enjoy the Christmas season. Since Christmas has become more of a cultural phenomena than religious one I think it's fine for anyone to take part in it.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

When in ROME, be a Roman or GTFO. Look at the Jews, they are flooding Israel now

No offense, but eff that cowardly attitude; I agree that you shouldn't expect society at large to kowtow to your values; but you also don't have to be their shill and conform to their values either. The Romans used to f*ck men in public bathhouses and have vomitoriums to re-eat food they just ate. I'd rather stay a Barbarian, than a Roman even while I traverse the city.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

No offense, but eff that cowardly attitude; I agree that you shouldn't expect society at large to kowtow to your values; but you also don't have to be their shill and conform to their values either. The Romans used to f*ck men in public bathhouses and have vomitoriums to re-eat food they just ate. I'd rather stay a Barbarian, than a Roman even while I traverse the city.

Exactly. Lol. Besides that "Barbarian" Armenius (Herman) learned what the Romans had to offer and then whipped their a$$ hard in grueling guerilla warfare.

[torkham]

no i don't. But i am not a condescending little jerk who goes around, judging those who do celebrate, either.

#%$¥ %#$!!!!
👊🏼✌🏼

[torkham]

Your own? Seriously? Do you have your own Pakistani technology? Your own Pakistani cars? No, you don't, brother.

So many Muslims hate West yet they won't move to an Islamic country (I am not saying you are one of them). Muslims enjoy Western way of life but at the same time they praise their own as better. This hypocrisy is beyond my comprehension.

I did not create the cotton neither did I farm it, not weave the thread, nor tailor the cloth.

But I wear my joRa, I paid for it.

[DaZahroJaam.]

#%$¥ %#$!!!!
����✌��

What are you acting like a tughak wahale charga for?? Are you offended?? If you do identify yourself as a condescending little jerk then you ought to do something about it. You are a grown assed man.

[torkham]

What are you acting like a tughak wahale charga for?? Are you offended?? If you do identify yourself as a condescending little jerk then you ought to do something about it. You are a grown assed man.

You are a provocateur with your insulting cheap jibes, and you did exactly opposite to what you said a out me imposing my views. This place is about views, discussions and debates. This forum is like a glass house, and you threw the first stones with your baad-niyaat. I don't want to derail his thread.

[DaZahroJaam.]

So?? I expressed my views and then you had your little seizure. Your ignorance came face to face with a pinch of common sense and all of a sudden, it was as if the devil got sprinkled with salt.