Can we agree on.....

[pashtanajan]

Would I be considered a "Pathan" if I like Punjabis and Hindkowans better than Tajiks and Uzbeks? I feel better in their company than the latter by a long shot.

just today I went to an Afgan-Uzbeki restaurant and they had the audacity to charge $10.00 w/o a drink for a plate of rice and chicken. if I went to a Pakistani restaurant, for $10 I could've fed my whole family.

LOL, Qais you're such a cheapo!

$10.00 is really inexpensive! Where do you live where you can feed your whole family for $10.00?! Here in Toronto food is really overpriced. If you pay $10.00 at restaurant for food then you're asking for food that will give you diarrhea later on. lol

[pashtanajan]

Well,In Foriegn i have seen that mostly Pakistani and Afghan restaurants are merged together

I haven't seen any such restaurant around here in Canada. I wish there were though so I could get butter chicken and kabuli palau in once place. I've been to one in the U.S. But here Pakistani-Indian restaurants are often merged together; often with Gujratis. Indians and Pakistanis are more cordial here with one another than in their own respective countries!

[randolph85]

why go to an afghan restaurant? don't you people have mothers?

[MostafaM]

I am from a northern province in Afghanistan and my family has always interacted with other ethnic groups. I consider them my own people as well. I have plenty of Tajik, Uzbek, and Hazara friends. Many of my family members have intermarried with them and vice-versa. There are millions of Afghans in Afghanistan who are not from solely one Afghan ethnic group. What will happen to them if we continue to hold onto the notion that Afghanistan must be a mono-lithic and mono-ethnic society? We've been living side by side with other ethnic groups for hundreds of years. The only reason that there seems to be so much blood-shed and ethnic tension between the various groups in Afghanistan is because all of them feel that they're not well-represented in the government and their voices are not being heard.

You missed the point here, too.
Afghanistan or any other state in the world wasn´t created to last untill judgement day. Of course there are alot of intermarriages between different ethnicities but ask yourself why you call yourself "Pashtanajan"....maybe because your father is a Pashtun?
If the ethnicities try to avoid further discrimination and bloodshed in an upcoming civil war and go for a peacefull partition, the chances to create a peacefull Union in the future is a greater possibility.
Let´s everyone have their own house and be good neighbours instead of forcing all into one house for the sake of fake brotherhood talk.

Founding a country on ethnonationalism won't bring peace to Pashtuns. Pashtuns have never been truly united in the past, so why should they now? Our tribal culture is why we can't move forwards. I don't care for tribalism or pashtunwali. Cultures and traditions change overtime; let us discard of the traditions holding us back.

Because Pashtuns have never been united, they have been a subject to exploitation and indirect subjugation by others.
Are you really asking for a people to maintaine their status quo that ruins them because you dont think they can evolve?
Isn´t this somehow an anti-Pashtun stereotype?

Tribalism is one of the problems but tribal structures are already vanishing.
The bigger problem is the deep rooted foreign influence and the division of Pashtuns by power groups and the Durand Line issue and the ideologysation of Pashtuns by Islamic and Pro-Pakistan entities.

I'm a humanist. There's nothing 'hippie' about my worldview. Every ethnic group in Afghanistan should feel secure. I understand that there is ethnic tension in Afghanistan, and that is certainly understandable. But it doesn't have to be like this. We, the new generation, have the capacity to overlook such trivialities, and work together to prosper and built our nations together.

A humanist in central asian politics is a tree-hugging hippy.
That´s how I see it. No offense intended.

Every ethnic group has the right and the obligation to secure their own interests and I am totally in favour of this point. Every nation has the right for self-determination and no one should be ruled by anyone else.

I think there is no real together if we can´t agree on a greater framework.
A true nation cant have 4-5 languages, 4-5 versions of history and this call for federalism that will actually lead to disintegration.

We can be together in a Union, thats totally possible but only after everyone went their own way and build something to meet each other on eye-level.

You didn't choose to be born a Pashtun, neither did a Tajik choose to be born a Tajik. All of us, however, live in same country, side-by-side, and we must learn to co-operate. How is this a ''hippie'' perspective? It's terribly important for us adopt this view in order to prosper together, and to avoid further war and blood-shed. Our psychopathic warlords from all ethnic groups in Afghanistan have been brainwashing and indoctrinating their own people as cannon fodder. None of them care for Pashto, Farsi, Islam, etc. They just want power.

You don´t choose your ethnicity but you definitly choose your identity.
There are alot of intermarriages that gave birth to mixed children and they have chosen where they belong to.
This whole conflict is about identity, where you came from defines where you will go.
You propagate an identity based on multi-culturalism and fake story that we all have always lived side by side for good which is not true.
I propagate that everyone´s identity should be respected, regardless of their ethnic background.
The Afghan state has always tried to do that by propagating the Afghanisation of all the ethnic groups which is culturally true: an Afghan Usbek is different than Usbeks from Usbekistan. But linguistically the Afghan state never succeeded in promoting a single national language to unite or assimilate all people under one banner.
This is the reason why Afghanistan has failed and will fail again because most of the ethnicities won´t accept why "Pashto speakins Nomads and Mountaine people" have to rule over the "sophisticated and modern Persian speaking people from the cities".

I don't want a Pashtunistan. I really don't and neither do 80% + Afghan Pashtuns from Afghanistan, especially now that most of them have been to Pakistan, and noticed how similar they are to their other Afghan brethren than Pakistani Pashtuns. I love Afghanistan and every ethnic group within it. They have gone through the same troubles as I have and my family. They have wept when we have wept. And that's why I understand why some Pakistani Pashtuns prefer to say that they're Pakistani and not Afghan, because they feel closer to the people they have intermingled with and befriended.

Where did you get the 80% figure from?
A survey made by Pashtanajan? Please publish your sources. Thanks.

I respect your wishes. You can promote what you like and want, other people have different world views and promote that.
The Pakistani Pashtuns who like the Paki-state that undermines them and will linguistically and culturally assimilated them in the next 70 years are not my problem. They can go this path if they like.

My intention is to unite Pashtuns/Afghans who want to come together for good, overcome their internal barriers and want a prosperous and safe future. If they can achieve in an Afghanistan, then good. If they choose to go the path of achieving their goals in a separated Pashtunistan/Afghanistan then good, too.

We all bleed red. We're all more alike than different. If you want to secure Pashto and Pashtuns then start with yourself. What contributions have you made to your people? Work on the betterment of yourself. Nationalism, etc. won't prosper Pashtuns.

Education will.

We are all humans, true.
If we trace our ancestry, we are all Africans. true.

Doesn´t solve our current problems. If Pashtuns/Afghans want to preserve their identity, they need to awake and realize the obstacles in their way.
If they want to go the path of "humanism" they way you propagate it, then Pashtuns/Afghans won´t exist in 100 years after being assimilated.

I dont want that.

I could ask you the same question: what have you contributed to better the situation of Pashtuns/Afghans?
You are not even aware of the crisis our people are in. So where I may be, you are unfortunatly atleast 2-3 steps behind me because you still drum the beat of "multi culti" while the upcoming civil war will be fought along ethnic lines and the bombs will fall on Pashtun villages, the way it has been the case for the last 30 years.

You need to understand the inner conflicts and the historic events that have always been there in Afghan sociaty.
Then your Kantian humanism will collapse because it has no foundation.

[MostafaM]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/09/afghanistan-de-pashtunization-of-pashtuns-by-taliban/

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

I haven't seen any such restaurant around here in Canada. I wish there were though so I could get butter chicken and kabuli palau in once place. I've been to one in the U.S. But here Pakistani-Indian restaurants are often merged together; often with Gujratis. Indians and Pakistanis are more cordial here with one another than in their own respective countries!

Well i have never been to any country in the west.But if you have been to UAE or KSA.or such as the Globalvillage in Dubai,Afghanistan and Pakistan hotels are merge together.

Yes i do agree that Indians and Pakistanis in foriegn countries are very much close

[pashtanajan]

You missed the point here, too.
Afghanistan or any other state in the world wasn´t created to last untill judgement day. Of course there are alot of intermarriages between different ethnicities but ask yourself why you call yourself "Pashtanajan"....maybe because your father is a Pashtun?
If the ethnicities try to avoid further discrimination and bloodshed in an upcoming civil war and go for a peacefull partition, the chances to create a peacefull Union in the future is a greater possibility.
Let´s everyone have their own house and be good neighbours instead of forcing all into one house for the sake of fake brotherhood talk.




Because Pashtuns have never been united, they have been a subject to exploitation and indirect subjugation by others.
Are you really asking for a people to maintaine their status quo that ruins them because you dont think they can evolve?
Isn´t this somehow an anti-Pashtun stereotype?

Tribalism is one of the problems but tribal structures are already vanishing.
The bigger problem is the deep rooted foreign influence and the division of Pashtuns by power groups and the Durand Line issue and the ideologysation of Pashtuns by Islamic and Pro-Pakistan entities.



A humanist in central asian politics is a tree-hugging hippy.
That´s how I see it. No offense intended.

Every ethnic group has the right and the obligation to secure their own interests and I am totally in favour of this point. Every nation has the right for self-determination and no one should be ruled by anyone else.

I think there is no real together if we can´t agree on a greater framework.
A true nation cant have 4-5 languages, 4-5 versions of history and this call for federalism that will actually lead to disintegration.

We can be together in a Union, thats totally possible but only after everyone went their own way and build something to meet each other on eye-level.




You don´t choose your ethnicity but you definitly choose your identity.
There are alot of intermarriages that gave birth to mixed children and they have chosen where they belong to.
This whole conflict is about identity, where you came from defines where you will go.
You propagate an identity based on multi-culturalism and fake story that we all have always lived side by side for good which is not true.
I propagate that everyone´s identity should be respected, regardless of their ethnic background.
The Afghan state has always tried to do that by propagating the Afghanisation of all the ethnic groups which is culturally true: an Afghan Usbek is different than Usbeks from Usbekistan. But linguistically the Afghan state never succeeded in promoting a single national language to unite or assimilate all people under one banner.
This is the reason why Afghanistan has failed and will fail again because most of the ethnicities won´t accept why "Pashto speakins Nomads and Mountaine people" have to rule over the "sophisticated and modern Persian speaking people from the cities".



Where did you get the 80% figure from?
A survey made by Pashtanajan? Please publish your sources. Thanks.

I respect your wishes. You can promote what you like and want, other people have different world views and promote that.
The Pakistani Pashtuns who like the Paki-state that undermines them and will linguistically and culturally assimilated them in the next 70 years are not my problem. They can go this path if they like.

My intention is to unite Pashtuns/Afghans who want to come together for good, overcome their internal barriers and want a prosperous and safe future. If they can achieve in an Afghanistan, then good. If they choose to go the path of achieving their goals in a separated Pashtunistan/Afghanistan then good, too.




We are all humans, true.
If we trace our ancestry, we are all Africans. true.

Doesn´t solve our current problems. If Pashtuns/Afghans want to preserve their identity, they need to awake and realize the obstacles in their way.
If they want to go the path of "humanism" they way you propagate it, then Pashtuns/Afghans won´t exist in 100 years after being assimilated.

I dont want that.

I could ask you the same question: what have you contributed to better the situation of Pashtuns/Afghans?
You are not even aware of the crisis our people are in. So where I may be, you are unfortunatly atleast 2-3 steps behind me because you still drum the beat of "multi culti" while the upcoming civil war will be fought along ethnic lines and the bombs will fall on Pashtun villages, the way it has been the case for the last 30 years.

You need to understand the inner conflicts and the historic events that have always been there in Afghan sociaty.
Then your Kantian humanism will collapse because it has no foundation.

Globalization is inevitable. Down the road, neither will Farsi exist or Pashto or world languages of today. Do you honestly think a Pashtun from Kunduz or from another northern province is willing to give up his land and forfeit the friendships he has made with other ethnic groups and their neighbours for Pashtunistan? Only Afghan 'rednecks' and those grown up in the west parrot their wet-dreams of 'Pashtunistan' or a united Pashtun homeland.

And please, tribalism still exists in many villages. Do you think a tribal man is going to be subservient to an idea like Pashtunistan or the wonts of his tribal elders? You already know the answer to that. Right now, Zalmai Rassoul has Durrani votes whereas Ghani has Ghilzai votes. Do you know why? Because Pashtuns are a fractured people! If Pashtunistan is formed then Pashtuns will fight against tribal lines. Really, there won't be much a difference.

Other than Kandahar, in almost all other provinces a sizable number of different ethnic groups live together. Pashtuns in Afghanistan are only about 13-14 million, and more than half of them are illiterate and uneducated, and millions of them speak only Dari. Do you think that we have the infrastructure and the people available to built a prosperous nation? You do realize that Pashtun territories such as Kandahar barely have enough resources. Land best-suited for agriculture, etc., is in the northern, north-western and some eastern parts of Afghanistan.

Pray tell, what will happen to the millions of Pashtuns in the north who are adverse to giving up their land and their homes? What will happen to the great number of Afghans who are products of inter-ethnic marriage, some of whom include my cousins? (Telling them to 'just adopt an identity' is an imbecilic answer). What will happen to the millions of Tajiks in Pashtun areas? What will happen to Uzbeks neighboring Pashtuns? What will happen to the Hazaras that make up 50% of Ghanzi and live in many Pashtun areas?

I know many Panjsheris, Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and the vast majority of them know that both Khorasan and Pashtunistan are wet dreams. The Tajiks of Tajikistan consider Afghan Tajiks as 'too' Afghans. Afghan Uzbeks view Uzbekistan's Uzbeks as too 'Russif-ied'. And Hazaras, what about them? Should we transport them back to Mongolia?

In other words, creating a united Pashtunistan is a disastrous idea! It's ridiculous and will serve no use to Pashtuns. It's not an answer to the current state of Afghanistan.

And what I have done? I have made sure that I can gain the education needed so that I may be able help my people. I am working on myself first, as I'm aware that I must first built myself in order to help others. I am currently in pursuit of a Phd. in Psychology and Neuroscience. I am aware that the vast majority of Afghans, especially Afghan women suffer from some kind of mental illness, and so I wish to help them. Every month, I sent $200 to my family back home to help impoverished Afghans. I am currently sponsoring an Afghan child. I am writing a children's book that takes place in Afghanistan, and I've asked a friend to help translate it into Pashto and Dari once it's finished, so that I can enrich the languages of my country.

We still have the chance to stop a war amongst ethnic lines. Afghans fought a war amongst ethnic lines before, and the vast majority of them know the consequences of it (it wasn't pretty).

You can help by letting go of ethnofascism. India is a country with more than 100+ ethnic groups and many, many languages, and they seem to be doing just fine.

The reason Pashtuns are in the state they are today is because of their own shortcomings. Sure, others have meddled with them, but only because Pashtuns have inadvertently let them due to their own weaknesses. Stop blaming other ethnic groups, and start looking at your own people and what they need to work on.

[DSM0305]

I would personally rather see Afghanistan burned down to ashes, than see it divided into smaller countries. It is first time I see an Afghan Pashtun ethnic nationalist wanting to divide Afghanistan... To be honest, he really haven't thought the idea through.

We need to promote Pashto not divide the country.

[MostafaM]

Globalization is inevitable. Down the road, neither will Farsi exist or Pashto or world languages of today. Do you honestly think a Pashtun from Kunduz or from another northern province is willing to give up his land and forfeit the friendships he has made with other ethnic groups and their neighbours for Pashtunistan? Only Afghan 'rednecks' and those grown up in the west parrot their wet-dreams of 'Pashtunistan' or a united Pashtun homeland.

And please, tribalism still exists in many villages. Do you think a tribal man is going to be subservient to an idea like Pashtunistan or the wonts of his tribal elders? You already know the answer to that. Right now, Zalmai Rassoul has Durrani votes whereas Ghani has Ghilzai votes. Do you know why? Because Pashtuns are a fractured people! If Pashtunistan is formed then Pashtuns will fight against tribal lines. Really, there won't be much a difference.

Other than Kandahar, in almost all other provinces a sizable number of different ethnic groups live together. Pashtuns in Afghanistan are only about 13-14 million, and more than half of them are illiterate and uneducated, and millions of them speak only Dari. Do you think that we have the infrastructure and the people available to built a prosperous nation? You do realize that Pashtun territories such as Kandahar barely have enough resources. Land best-suited for agriculture, etc., is in the northern, north-western and some eastern parts of Afghanistan.

Pray tell, what will happen to the millions of Pashtuns in the north who are adverse to giving up their land and their homes? What will happen to the great number of Afghans who are products of inter-ethnic marriage, some of whom include my cousins? (Telling them to 'just adopt an identity' is an imbecilic answer). What will happen to the millions of Tajiks in Pashtun areas? What will happen to Uzbeks neighboring Pashtuns? What will happen to the Hazaras that make up 50% of Ghanzi and live in many Pashtun areas?

I know many Panjsheris, Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and the vast majority of them know that both Khorasan and Pashtunistan are wet dreams. The Tajiks of Tajikistan consider Afghan Tajiks as 'too' Afghans. Afghan Uzbeks view Uzbekistan's Uzbeks as too 'Russif-ied'. And Hazaras, what about them? Should we transport them back to Mongolia?

In other words, creating a united Pashtunistan is a disastrous idea! It's ridiculous and will serve no use to Pashtuns. It's not an answer to the current state of Afghanistan.

And what I have done? I have made sure that I can gain the education needed so that I may be able help my people. I am working on myself first, as I'm aware that I must first built myself in order to help others. I am currently in pursuit of a Phd. in Psychology and Neuroscience. I am aware that the vast majority of Afghans, especially Afghan women suffer from some kind of mental illness, and so I wish to help them. Every month, I sent $200 to my family back home to help impoverished Afghans. I am currently sponsoring an Afghan child. I am writing a children's book that takes place in Afghanistan, and I've asked a friend to help translate it into Pashto and Dari once it's finished, so that I can enrich the languages of my country.

We still have the chance to stop a war amongst ethnic lines. Afghans fought a war amongst ethnic lines before, and the vast majority of them know the consequences of it (it wasn't pretty).

You can help by letting go of ethnofascism. India is a country with more than 100+ ethnic groups and many, many languages, and they seem to be doing just fine.

The reason Pashtuns are in the state they are today is because of their own shortcomings. Sure, others have meddled with them, but only because Pashtuns have inadvertently let them due to their own weaknesses. Stop blaming other ethnic groups, and start looking at your own people and what they need to work on.

Madame,

first, you think way too highly of yourself and your concept of understanding the world.
My approach is based on finding problems and a solution for it, a typical engineering approach. And no, I won´t come forward with what I have achieved in the field of chemical, biochemical and biomedical engineering so far because this has absolutly nothing to do with a broad idea of state theory and the foundations of a nation to grow upon.

1. Afghanistan is not Kunduz.
If you cared about Kunduz, you would have cared about the thousands of raped Pashtanas who were displaced from Northern Afghanistan after 2001.

2. As I said before, you are entitled to your own way of thinking and thats fine. I have a different approach towards the current problem and lets talk in 4-5 years who´s approach manifested itself in reality and who was wet-dreaming.
I could care less if you wanted to stay in your Kunduz and become Atta´s secretary.

3. The unity among Pashtuns is needed, regardless of your anti-Pashtun stereotypes.

4. Do you really think that mountainous, green and fruitfull Pashtun land from Nengarhar to Nimroz has not the capacity to feed it´s population?
Have you ever read a book about Afghanistan?
That´s what it looks like, madame.

5. No one should transport anyone back anywhere.
Splitting Afghanistan along ethnic and regional lines without any war is a possibility better than fighting for superiority in a fake unified country.

6. I never blamed anyone else for Pashtuns state than themselves.
They are divided and 50% of this because of their own shortcomings.
Thats what I said and thats something Pashtuns need to overcome.

Conclusion:
You don´t seem to have that much information about Afghanistan inner dynamics. I am not supporting Pashtunistan as a country in the borders of mordern day Afghanistan and subjugating all the others.
I promote a confederation of independent states based on language and culture.
That´s way better than a civil war which is forming already.

[DSM0305]

Mostafam

Let assume there will be a peaceful partition.
Then tell me, who will get Kabul and Herat?

[pashtanajan]

Mostafam

Let assume there will be a peaceful partition.
Then tell me, who will get Kabul and Herat?

MostafaM doesn't know much about the dynamics of Afghanistan, contrary to what he believes. I'm not even sure if he's been to Afghanistan. Have you Mustafa?

A peaceful partition is impossible. I can't even imagine one.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

A partition will create alot of problems

Also most of the Afghanistan major resources are in the non pashtun dominated region's.

Afghanistan should stay what is today.Extraction of the resources should begin with the help of india and china.Spends alot more on education than any other sector and within only 2 decades by 2030-32,The present Afghanistan will look like alien infront of the afghanistan in 2030-32

Partition always create problems.

To add more,Relation with all the neighbours should be improved

[DSM0305]

A partition will create alot of problems

Also most of the Afghanistan major resources are in the non pashtun dominated region's.

Afghanistan should stay what is today.Extraction of the resources should begin with the help of india and china.Spends alot more on education than any other sector and within only 2 decades by 2030-32,The present Afghanistan will look like alien infront of the afghanistan in 2030-32

Partition always create problems.

To add more,Relation with all the neighbours should be improved

I agree with the rest, but seriously how many times do I have to tell you, there is trillions $ worth of resources in Pashtun dominated areas of Afghanistan. You keep putting your false info into others head even though I told you several times it is not true. If you don't know something, simply don't talk about it.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Ok,tell me the resources within the pashtun dominated region's in Afghanistan?

In Pakistan pashtun dominated region's.FATA has hell alot of resources including the quality of coal which is comparable to indonesian coal or chakwal coal in Punjab.But the reserves in chakwal are limited.

[DSM0305]