Pakistani Pashtun Soldiers.

[Manzareh]

YouTube - i am a proud pakistani pathan soldier of pakistan army

http://www.icctv.info/ioq_R8raIIM/Tr...i-Pathans.html

[graveyardofempires]

YouTube - i am a proud pakistani pathan soldier of pakistan army

http://www.icctv.info/ioq_R8raIIM/Tr...i-Pathans.html

is that you manareh cuz you can hardly speak pashto.
and how much did this isi agent get paid.

i would rather believe my pashtun brothers

YouTube - Pashtun in Waziristan warns Pakistan and America army

[graveyardofempires]

pakistani army in action against innocent people offcourse.

YouTube - Pakistan army has destroyed South Waziristan civilian lives

[Bengal_Tiger]

lol this thread is hilarious.

1. Ayub Khan was biologically Pashtun from the Tareen tribe, but that's as far as it went. He gave Pashtun land in Attock to Punjab province and his son is now the leading figure in the anti-Pashtun "Hazara" movement.

The Hazara movement in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa wants to break away from the province formerly known as N.W.F.P because they rejected the name change as signifying that the province is a Pashtun province, rather than an entity belonging to no specific ethnicity.

Most of the "Hazaras" are racially Pashtoon but speak Hindko, and others are pure Hindkos. Ayub Khan and his son, Goyar Ayub Khan, are the latter. Many of these Punjabized "Pashtuns" are very anti-Pashtun and are Punjabi in mentality.

They regard being Pashtun as inferior as being a "naswar-khow", an "uneducated Pathan" and like other Punjabis subconsciously regard themselves as true Pakistanis.

2. The issue of Pakhtoon representation in the army is very complicated and cannot be presented in black and white terms e.g. all Pashtuns in the army are traitors v all Pashtuns love Pakistan and sing "jeevay, jeevay Pakistan".

The majority of PA (Pakistan Army) personnel are drawn from the Potohar region of northern Punjab including Rawalpindi and other Punjabi areas, as well as the Peshawar valley especially Mardan, Kohat and Pekhawar.

The PA is the largest employer in Punjab and is also extremely corrupt with retired officers getting large landholdings in Southern Punjab as "bounty".

The Pakistan army does not have a significant number of soldiers from southern Punjab i.e. the Sairaki belt. There are more Pashtuns in the PA than southern Punjabis.

Some of the Pashtun soldiers in the army are proud Pakhtoons and extremely proud of their Pashtunwali. I actually have a friend who is an ex-PA officer, a Yusufzai and a member of the ANP. He is proud to be Pakhtoon but believes in a culturally distinct and stable Pakhtunkhwa within a federal framework. Afzal Khan lala's son is also in the military. There are other extremely proud Pashtuns in the army. Actually a few years ago before the TTP became extreme, many senior Pashtun personnel were leaking information to Pashtun militants, because at that time the militants had more legitimacy. Now, however most KP Pashtuns hate the brutal and barbaric TTP.

However with the planned North Waziristan offensive happening next year - which most KP Pashtuns support - this could ultimately escalate into a major war whereby the PA will be seen as fighting all Pashtuns and the major Pakhtun tribes such as:

-Khattaks
- Afridis
- Orakzais
- Yusufzais
- Mohmands

and others may have to do jirga and decide to fight the PA. From my knowledge most of these tribes believe in a stable Pakistan as part of Muslim unity, but they are not naive and they are ultimately Pashtun first and if the PA is seen as a brutal army of all Pashtuns and the TTP is not seen as worse and if it is seen as a Pashtun war of survival, they will fight the PA...if that happens, the PA will be defeated and the Federation of Pakistan will either break up or be another Somalia or "Afghanistan" (ironically)

(I have not mentioned other tribes such as Mandokhels, Shinwaris and others who are also big and powerful but not directly involved).

3. The Pakistan army however is still a culturally Punjabi army even if having something around 25% or more Pashtun representation, I have heard from multiple reliable sources that the army is now 1/4 to even 1/3 Pashtun. It is known that Punjabi soldiers taunt Pashtun soldiers with "jokes" of being a "stupid Pathan" and a "gay Pathan" with the Pashtuns not being able to "joke back" as that will result in possible disciplinary action.

Suffice to say that if there is stability than Pakistan's Pakhtoons would remain loyal to the federation and the process of them integrating would just continue as was the case prior the current crisis in Pakistan. However I doubt there will be stability and ultimately the British creation of Pakistan will sometime in the future either collapse or cease to exist as a properly functioning entity.

However the final say in what Pakhtoons do does not lie with groups such as the ANP, PMAP, PSF, PSO but as it has always done in the tribes:

In jirga and mashwera

[Admin Khan]

Do you have any authoritative sources for your claim?

You said according to PakArmy.net, however, PakArmy.net does not exist and it's a domain up for sale. Which means I can buy it right now and state that Pashtuns are 1 percent of the army. The discussion so far is futile.

Thanks.

[Toramana]

What an idiot to quote an auther and then lie about it at the same time. Stephen P. Cohen of the Brookings Institution and Professor Hasan Askari Rizvi of Pakistan, indicates roughly that the Pashtun representation in the army is between 15-22% among officers and between 20-25% among the regular rank-and-file despite pashtuns being only 16%..and then you say pashtuns are maximum 7%, what a clown..guess your used to gullable people here swallowing your BS as soon as it comes outa your mouth.

Little petty Paki, if you would read the entire book and not quote those figures out of context, you would find it written in the same book that recruitment to the Punjabi army is not done based on ethnic or linguistic affiliation but on regional basis i.e., if a Hindokwan from Hazara is recruited in Pakistan army, he is considered a Pashtun...Same for a Punjabi in Peshawar or Queta, or Sindh. Based on this, he opines that it is very difficult to ascertain the exact representation of different ethnic groups in Pakistan army. He also mentions as how the many elite units are thoroughly Punjabized and how are Punjabis resistant to the diversification of Pakistan army.


Before jumping to conclusion, read the whole book.

[Toramana]

Another source in this connection is a very good essay by Major Retired Aghha Hamayun Khan, which actually tries to investigate the historical background and causes of the Punjabi-heaviness of the army of the British Raj and one of its successors i.e. the Pakistan army.

According to him, India diversified the ethnic basis of its military (which was Punjabi heavy) immediately after the partition, but the political and civil-military bureaucratic elite of West Pakistan didn't let it happen primarily because of Punjabi resistance to the recruitment of soldiers from other ethnic background, especially Bangalis.

But I think the most reliable way for someone to ascertain correct figures would be to visit different army units personally. From my extensive experience, I can say, I doubt it is i.e. Pashtun representation is even 7% in the officer rank. In the sipahi rak i.e. non-commissioned officer cadre, it may be a little above 7% but then that also includes the rag-tag and nominally armed Frontier Constablory (Khasa Dar force).

[Toramana]

"Traditionally Pak Army was a predominantly Punjabi force. In British India, three districts: Campbellpur (now Attock), Rawalpindi, and Jhelum dominated the recruitment flows. By 1990 the percentage representation in the Pakistan Army as a whole (officers and Other Ranks or soldiers) was as follows: Punjabis 65 percent; Pushtuns 14 percent; Sindhis and Baluchis 15 percent; Kashmiris 6 percent; and Minorities 0.3 per cent. Since then, with the provision of waivers for both physical and educational qualifications, recruitment has been increased from the formerly less well represented areas. Punjab showed an overall decline in recruitment of soldiers from 63.86 per cent in 1991 to 43.33 in 2005"

Now the above is another source from global security. But can we believe its figure? In Pakistan army, they don't make a distinction based on ethnicity obviously to conceal the actual ethnic composition of Paki army and its Punjabi-heaviness. Even the figures by Stephen P. Cohen are not reliable because he wrote his book in 1981 (second edition 1998) at the hight of Cold War confrontation when Paki army under the Punjabi Zial-ul-Haq was a staunch ally of the US against USSR. Thus Cohen is sympathetic towards Paki army and tries to exaggerates its national character. Nonetheless, he cannot hide certain facts for his work to meet the required scholastic standards.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/army.htm

[Toramana]

My assessment of Paki army is like this as for as the officer rank is concerned. The most influential group in it is Punjabi...the second-most is Kashmiri, which itself is closely allied with Punjabi (there is hardly any distinction that can be made between Punjabis and Kashmiris culturally, racially, and linguistically). The third-most group is Urdu-speaking Mhahajar. Then are the Pashtuns.

[Toramana]

And this is another source. Look at the inflated figures. Who would believe this jugglary by Pakistan army sources to hide its Punjabi-ness?

http://www.balawaristan.net/index.ph...mpisition.html

CLASS COMPOSITION INFANTARY REGIMENTS SALIENT Pts:
1. Revised class composition will be implemented wef 1 Jan 2002 and achieved within a period of 10 years i.e 31 Dec 2011. A review will be carried out after completion of 10 years
2. Existing SB class has been separated into two segments i.e Sindhi and Balochi class.
3. A new class named K&NA (Kashmir & Northern Areas) has been introduced (AK 7% and NA 2%)
4. 2% share of FATA has been included in the overall share of 15% of Pathan class.
5. Share of minorities has been enhanced from 0.29% to 1% of the Army strength.
6. No class composition is fixed for AEC and CMI. However, equitable ratio of all class to be ensured by AEC and CMI records.
PUNJAB REGIMENT IN THE YEAR 2002 2011
Punjabi: 68.60% 70.00%
Pathan: 16.40% 15.00%
Sindhi: 12.7% 10.00%
Balochi: 2.30% 5.00%
K&NA: Nil Nil
(Kashmir & Northern Area) TOTAL: 100%
BALOCH REGIMENT IN THE YEAR
2002 2011
Punjabi: 63.04% 68.00%
Pathan: 11.96% 10.00%
Sindhi: 20.50% 10.00%
Balochi: 4.50% 15.00%
K&NA: Nil Nil
TOTAL:100%
FF REGIMENT IN THE YEAR
2002
20011 Punjabi: 48.50% 35.00%
Pathan: 50% 50%
Sindhi: 1 % 10%
Balochi: 0.50% 5.00%
K&NA: Nil Nil
TOTAL:100%
AK REGIMENT IN THE YEAR
2002
2011 Punjabi: 35.50% 40%
Pathan: 1% 10%
Sindhi: Nil Nil
Balochi: Nil Nil
K&NA: 63.50% 50.00%
TOTAL:100%
SIND REGIMENT IN THE YEAR
2002 2011
Punjabi: 43.07% 45.00%
Pathan: 6.93% 5.00%
Sindhi: 49.50% 45.00%
Balochi: 0.50% 5.00%
K&NA: Nil Nil
TOTAL:100%
NLI REGIMENT IN THE YEAR
2002 2011
Punjabi: 2.50% 25.00%
Pathan: 1.00%
10.00% Sindhi: Nil
Nil Balochi: Nil
Nil K&NA: 96.50%
45.00% TOTAL:100%
REMARKS:
1- In the absence of zero existing industry and zero political power, the employment in NLI was the only source of living for the people of Gilgit-Baltistan.
2- The Gilgit scouts, Northern scouts and Karakoram scouts was the legacy of the supreme military traditions of Gilgit-Baltistan. These scout organizations were shamelessly banished by the very selfish and slave natured Punjabis, who for the first time became rulers in their entire history as a result of creation of Pakistan and break away of East-Pakistan. After disbandment of scouts, NLI( Northern Light Infantry) regiments were raised. Ironically, this is what has happened in the class composition of NLI regiments in a board headed by a Punjabi General i.e. Lt. General Mushtaq, having a Wahabi mentality.
3- This is the real reward given to the people of Gilgit-Baltistan after Kargil debacle. The NLI regiment is now fully Punjabiaized with Pathanaziation. 94% of the officer class of the complete Pakistan Army is Punjabi and the rule of Pakistan is with these people whose natural inherent lack of leadership qualities is filled up by stooge, Mohajirs and Pathans.
4- 90% of NLI regiments are taken out of Gilgit-Baltistan to ensure that the Punjabi and Pathan bureaucratic rulers can do whatsoever they feel like in an unobstructed manner. A similar treatment was meted out to Azad Kashmir regiments long time back in gross violation of the ethics and morality of the Kashmir dispute.
5- Adding insult to injury, the Punjabi mind has separated the already depleted Gilgiti-Balti class composition into separate entities in each and every NLI regiment. They are simply slaves of the highest class.

[Manzareh]

Little petty Paki, if you would read the entire book and not quote those figures out of context, you would find it written in the same book that recruitment to the Punjabi army is not done based on ethnic or linguistic affiliation but on regional basis i.e., if a Hindokwan from Hazara is recruited in Pakistan army, he is considered a Pashtun...Same for a Punjabi in Peshawar or Queta, or Sindh. Based on this, he opines that it is very difficult to ascertain the exact representation of different ethnic groups in Pakistan army. He also mentions as how the many elite units are thoroughly Punjabized and how are Punjabis resistant to the diversification of Pakistan army.


Before jumping to conclusion, read the whole book.

why resort to calling me a petty paki? in that case il label you an afgayistan clown, since youve posted so many sources which source and by which analysist does it say the pashtuns are "7%" max, lets just say for arguements sake it does say it in that book, so what?? youve quoted some sources yourself which refute this, what type of dude would post something and refute himself?

if a Hindokwan from Hazara is recruited in Pakistan army, he is considered a Pashtun..im sorry to say that is utter BS, as if the Pakistan army is so primitive to not be able to determine ones background when they join the army, iv seen it myself you have a form in the Pakistani army with a specific box saying "Ethnicity: " esophxai has family in the army i would ask him to confirm this. you dont just walk into the army and say im from peshawar without giving your own personal details (maybe in afghanistan they do that) what planet are you living on.

[Toramana]

why resort to calling me a petty paki? in that case il label you an afgayistan clown, since youve posted so many sources which source and by which analysist does it say the pashtuns are "7%" max, lets just say for arguements sake it does say it in that book, so what?? youve quoted some sources yourself which refute this, what type of dude would post something and refute himself?

if a Hindokwan from Hazara is recruited in Pakistan army, he is considered a Pashtun..im sorry to say that is utter BS, as if the Pakistan army is so primitive to not be able to determine ones background when they join the army, iv seen it myself you have a form in the Pakistani army with a specific box saying "Ethnicity: " esophxai has family in the army i would ask him to confirm this. you dont just walk into the army and say im from peshawar without giving your own personal details (maybe in afghanistan they do that) what planet are you living on.

Just go on believing what you want to, Mr Pakistani Tiger.

Personally, I will not believe any of the sources as for as the representation of various ethnic group in Paki army is concerned because there is no primary data and no statistically reliable/credible and independent way to ascertain the correct composition of Paki army except the figures provided by the army itself. And who would believe those figures looking at its track record and its effort to conceal the real facts and so highlight its "national character"?

This is the same problem Stephen P Cohen has pointed to. Recruitment to army is on regional basis apparently to reduce the chances of ethnic considerations weakening the cohesion of the army.

That is why I said one should personally visit different cantonments and if possible army units...Based on such random samples, one can have a good guess.

As for me, in one specific instance when I counted, out of 55 officers, only three were Pashtuns...In another case, out of the same sample size, only 4 were Pashtuns...In another case, in a group of 30 junior officers, only two were Pashtuns; one from Karak and another from Mardan. But this is one of the dozens of instances that I encountered of the Punjabi-ness of Pakistan army.

But anyhow, I think it will be more authentic if one does this excercise by oneself.

[KhyberKhan]

r

There's 10-15% of pashtuns in pak army. Most of these are brainwashed and have been groomed since their very education has been in army schools/ colleges.

Also all big players were purged during musharrafs time. He eliminated any inclined to religion and happened to be a threat which lower rank pashtuns happened to fall into the threat category. A lot of these generals/lower rank were of the Russian-afghan era.

In addition, pak army hires pashtuns as mercenaries such as lashkars where they are basically on a payroll and act as death squads alongside the incompetent FC. It has also began recruiting pashtun soldiers on new temporary contracts whereby it removes the idea of having to pay a pension unlike its Punjabi counterparts

[Toramana]

And I agree with Bangali-Tiger as for this making-fun thing is concerned. Pashtuns are subjected to ridicule, taunts, and humuliation routinely. Most of the so-called Pashtun army officers then lose all self-respect and become more Punjabi than Punjabis themselves to show their loyalty to Punjabi bosses. Promotion to higher also depends on how much Pakistaniyath do you show and how tightly are you linked to the Punjabi elite directly or indirectly.

[Shayesta]

According to Wikipedia and PakArmy.net atleast 45% of the Pakistani army is Pashtun.

According to facts, it's not. Next.

So what happends when Afghanistan wants to wipe Pakistan off the map with the help of India?

India doesn't even need our help, if like you they were also after destroying others instead of progressing then they wouldn't be one of world's largest democracy, nor fastest growing economy. Next.

thats not answering the question

It is; Till the day British Raj was there it had Pukhtoons serving them, and till the day Pakistan is there you will have Pukhtoons serving them. Next.

Gravey, thers more muslims in india than in afghanistan..dont mean india isnt a hindu country.

It's actually not; It's a secular state. Next.

Pakistan can and are able to destroy Afghanistan, despite what she looks like Pakistan is still pushing its ballistics agenda very hard.

Oh gosh, how silly of me thinking Mujahideen and Taliban were Pakistan's way on destruction of Afghanistan! So Pakistan got more in store? Let's see!