Baygham Khan Appreciation Thread/ Best Yusufzai award

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This is getting pathetic,
refusing and then posting the same source for preliminary data from a year earlier. What are you trying to prove. We get it, you must be smart to make it this far, congrats, that means nothing in other areas of life though, I will still take my car to a competent mechanic rather than ask you whats wrong with it. I will even prefer the Car talk guys to your advice.

LOl, whats pathetic to the objective observer is your inability to intepret the data. Take a crucial look at your statement. You said, based on your perusal of the data, reconfirmed here in the 2010 compilation (not much of a change at all over the last 5 years, hence the 2009 reference), that Pediatrics was the most competitive speciality when in fact its the most accessible. Thats like saying McCain won the popular or electoral vote. Even a medical student in Pakistan would blush at your statement. Its just patently false and you got served because this the definitive post showing everyone that even when you do get a valid source to cite, you misinterpret it completely or distort it.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf

And certainly, it appears that if the Mechanic is in Dar Al Casino, you will take his advice.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Ooor ba cha ki bal dhay lets see the joosh exuded here. Here is the daily post rate on this site from our stats.

BarakzaiAbdali 9.2/day
Toramana 7.51/day
Baygham 3.49/day

As you see above, I can hardly get it up man LOL.
On the other hand the data suggests that your zwanaay jaush , with marriage, soorrh shaway naday (has not died), thus either your assumption is wrong, or there is a lull in recreational activity (hopefully not for the wrong reasons), God knows better, noor ba sa waw. LOL

Also we forget your blog posts which are lengthy rants that future psych folks will study regarding the eternal internal struggle between:

and

My point to you is that you and this Lecha Welsa fellow see Pan Islamists hiding in all corners of the house... like dust bunnies. Get over it, they have bigger fish to be concerned about and greater injustices than dealing with your desire to go to art Museaums and have tea with Tablighis.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

See above, 4 posts in < 10 minutes Baygham Lala... lol, maybe Im just Zorro.

[Alchemist]

I did not get the connection but sounds like it is an important statement. Can I use it in future sermons, need your permission.

I can teach you!
Fret not.

I can tell more about you than the priests you slavishly work for at the university. You can quote me on that!

[Alchemist]

I see zero logic in assuming that one needs to get married to accept Barakzai's ideology.

only mature, independent, free thinking people with a clear conscience can accept barakzai's ideology. Getting married is another way to get to that. But obviously those suffering from mental problems are exempt!

Most of those who support your Pan-Islamist views, are 8/10 chance have blown themselves up, leaving their wifes as young widows or sat at home waiting for the end of times on the welfare system.

^ This is an example of zero logic. Either you are trying to mock our intelligence by passing a hyperbole over our heads or you seriously believe that 80% of muslim men leave their wives in welfare.

[Feroza_Banu]

i see some bekaar doctors here on PF... aren't u doctors supposed to be struggling to fit in your wives and your children in your schedule... let alone an online forum?

or are u jobless?

no offense but i am curious.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

i see some bekaar doctors here on PF... aren't u doctors supposed to be struggling to fit in your wives and your children in your schedule... let alone an online forum?

or are u jobless?

no offense but i am curious.

On tail end of fellowship (after the rigorous training) you get about 6 months in a research lab (its when you are all done with your training clinically). So basically between PCRs, immunostaining, and electrophoreses, and interviewing for either a job of an advanced fellowship... you get some free time like this. Thats why I did not exist on an online forum before November/December. You have only about 1/2 day of patient care duties during this time and some capability to moonlite and make some extra money.

[Toramana]

No need to call me doctor, I am your equal and your brother.

But yeah, its been forever since I had psych block in med school. However, if I remember correctly he demonstrates a defense mechanism called splitting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)

What is that Barakzai? Could you explain it a bit?

But he and Baygham Lala do this frequently. Basically, they have almost erected the Dar Al Harb and Dar al Islam concept, but in reverse and with the divisions being Dar Al Madrassah and Dar Al Casino/Fun Times. Anyone that advocates that the Afghans be allowed their indigenous existence is automatically a member/representative of DarAlMadrassah. The Americans that reason toward a security paradigm that recognized these wars are ridiculous and wars of attrition are in some fuzzy protected status sort of equivalent to the Ahle Kitaab status.... its sort of like they are protected but referred to as Ahle Casino.

Now these are concepts within the framework of which Islamists define the whole universe...That is why you got all Mulsims on one side whereas all non-Muslims on the other ...so much so that within Islam, those who agree with your sectarian world-view are on one side i.e. the side of righteousness ...whereas the rest mark the other i.e. the side of the evil ....

It is strange that you are label us with what characterises you knowing that a liberal world-view is more pluralistic, tolerant, cognizant of diversity, and open to re-interpretation/transformation...Yours on the other hand is rigid and non-changing....So how do you label us as that....Abdali....am just curious to know?


The next level of splitting is with: Arabists and Nonarabists.

Another level of splitting is:
everyone that agrees with us vs everyone that disagrees

From this follows (Toramana Wrorre does this, but it appears Baygham Lala has not yet demonstrated this trait):
Intelligent vs Unintelligent based on the agree or disagree sequence.

Abdali, I have noticed many inconsistancies and contradictions in your views...But anyhow, some other time...I think it is enough for now...

[Toramana]

i see some bekaar doctors here on PF... aren't u doctors supposed to be struggling to fit in your wives and your children in your schedule... let alone an online forum?

or are u jobless?

no offense but i am curious.

Ferozai khorai pa khair pa dai thread kai .... dangtharan kho dair oghagaida ...kho oss ba pa kai da engineerano na sa wawro....

[BarakzaiAbdali]

What is that Barakzai? Could you explain it a bit?



Now these are concepts within the framework of which Islamists define the whole universe...That is why you got all Mulsims on one side whereas all non-Muslims on the other ...so much so that within Islam, those who agree with your sectarian world-view are on one side i.e. the side of righteousness ...whereas the rest mark the other i.e. the side of the evil ....

It is strange that you are label us with what characterises you knowing that a liberal world-view is more pluralistic, tolerant, cognizant of diversity, and open to re-interpretation/transformation...Yours on the other hand is rigid and non-changing....So how do you label us as that....Abdali....am just curious to know?


The next level of splitting is with: Arabists and Nonarabists.



Abdali, I have noticed many inconsistancies and contradictions in your views...But anyhow, some other time...I think it is enough for now...

Wrorre, its because you have become what you most hated, an ideologue, without even knowing it. These constructs that you propose for society have become your cause celebre and you have become the priest for them. What is religion and ideological adherence to it except exactly that thing? A defense mechanism is activated and below the subconscious. So just as the Mullah hears anyone that questions any aspect of his belief system (for example the textual transmission of the Quranic text, etc) and he automatically classifies that person.. so too have you developed a system that classified people who have opinions on the purity of your ideology.

Also, as we see here in the West, its not that simple. There are varying ideologies, even here in the US that are native. The fundementalist Christian states "render unto Ceaser that which is his and render unto Christ that which is his" to reconcile the separation of church and state. Yet, in the same breath he promises that if anything renders that which is Christ's unto Caeser or vice versa, the agreement is null and void. Just as the Islamist sees a threat to his world view and belief system and wants to neutralize that threat, so too does the liberal secularist. He is prodemocracy, but will not logically follow out democracy to its natural conclusion in areas like Egypt and the West Bank if it threatens his ideological construct. By the same token, the capitalist has his ideological construct and refuses to follow it out to its natural end point (monopoly).

You have to understand that what you see as contradictions are the cracks in the cieling and the points of light beginning to make it through the darkness. You are beginning to see between the poles, which is a good thing. You base your experiences with those that hold contrary worldviews from your youth. So the Mullah in the kalaay preaches against education... but secretly sends his kids to medical school etc. So you built an antibody laden immune response to such hypocrasy. In order to drown out the Westerners without a connection to Islam who oppose an imposition, they are called "lacking in intelligence" or "unrealistic." That was your defense mechanism kicking in. What happens when someone with a little bit of melanin or named Aziz does not agree with you is that you pyschologically split him into the same class as that the Mullah class etc.

However, there are folks that ride between the poles, of all ethnicies, of all religious views, and of all political ideologies that realize life's deepest lessons:

Just as you cannot take a teenager and download all your life's wisdom into his head and hope he makes all the right decisions... in this same fashion, you cannot expect healthy outcomes withthe imposition of any nonnative ideology onto the masses. That goes for Islam as well. No reasonable or sane person can expect that Americans will accept, with good graces, an army that marches upon it and tells it: jizyaah, continued war, or conversion. Yet you are too close to it to see that this is exactly the choice that the Afghan on the ground senses from you.

Begin to analyze human responses in the past and present and try to project them toward the future.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

What is that Barakzai? Could you explain it a bit?



Now these are concepts within the framework of which Islamists define the whole universe...That is why you got all Mulsims on one side whereas all non-Muslims on the other ...so much so that within Islam, those who agree with your sectarian world-view are on one side i.e. the side of righteousness ...whereas the rest mark the other i.e. the side of the evil ....

It is strange that you are label us with what characterises you knowing that a liberal world-view is more pluralistic, tolerant, cognizant of diversity, and open to re-interpretation/transformation...Yours on the other hand is rigid and non-changing....So how do you label us as that....Abdali....am just curious to know?


The next level of splitting is with: Arabists and Nonarabists.



Abdali, I have noticed many inconsistancies and contradictions in your views...But anyhow, some other time...I think it is enough for now...

I also think that current events and the rejection by the insurgency of Sayed Qutb's general takfiri ideologies makes your assertion problematic. In fact, from my current readings, takfirites attempted to kill OBL about 3 times. In general, it appears that the insurgency led by AQ advocated coopting nationalist sentiment in places like Iraq and avoiding this psychological splitting. They view their coopted brethren as "weaker in faith" but generally avoid the takfirist mantra. In fact, per my read of OBL's recent biography by Scheuer, this was one of the key issues that central leadership had with Al Zarqawi... he basically killed anything and anyone that did not agree with him, sunnis, shiahs, alike.

Moreover, there are variant strains of Islam as well that generally have wide goal posts (i.e. they ascribe to a value system laid out by the Quran, but avoid a labeling mechanism regarding membership to the greater whole). For that particular reason, you will find Muslims who cite the famous hadith where a prostitute had enough mercy for example to give a dog water and she bought heaven.

You also forget that the Muslim also may place emphasis on varying portions of the text itself to forge his worldview. Some may hold firmly to the verses telling the Muslim that the Christians are closest in love to them... and reconcile this with a realism that in the end that birds of a feather flock together if there are differences between the Christians and Muslims.

But the issue here is that you split all Muslims or devout believers into a category and assigned them beliefs.

The Mullah class does the same to you as well. For instance, you and Osho may not agree on all facets of ideology and no one ought say one of you is a better "lliberal secularist" than the other.

[Baygham]

I also think that current events and the rejection by the insurgency of Sayed Qutb's general takfiri ideologies makes your assertion problematic. In fact, from my current readings, takfirites attempted to kill OBL about 3 times. In general, it appears that the insurgency led by AQ advocated coopting nationalist sentiment in places like Iraq and avoiding this psychological splitting. They view their coopted brethren as "weaker in faith" but generally avoid the takfirist mantra. In fact, per my read of OBL's recent biography by Scheuer, this was one of the key issues that central leadership had with Al Zarqawi... he basically killed anything and anyone that did not agree with him, sunnis, shiahs, alike.

Moreover, there are variant strains of Islam as well that generally have wide goal posts (i.e. they ascribe to a value system laid out by the Quran, but avoid a labeling mechanism regarding membership to the greater whole). For that particular reason, you will find Muslims who cite the famous hadith where a prostitute had enough mercy for example to give a dog water and she bought heaven.

You also forget that the Muslim also may place emphasis on varying portions of the text itself to forge his worldview. Some may hold firmly to the verses telling the Muslim that the Christians are closest in love to them... and reconcile this with a realism that in the end that birds of a feather flock together if there are differences between the Christians and Muslims.

But the issue here is that you split all Muslims or devout believers into a category and assigned them beliefs.

The Mullah class does the same to you as well. For instance, you and Osho may not agree on all facets of ideology and no one ought say one of you is a better "lliberal secularist" than the other.

Dear BA, your beliefs are a sacred part of you. Nobody has a right to ridicule them or label them in this or that category. Nobody until you commercialize your beliefs.

By commercializing I mean, use them in the public domain to settle issues, appropriate resources and such. This invariably leads to conflict as your beliefs will clash with mine. I will say Barakzai's should have 30% and Yousafzai 70% while you will hold an opposite belief. You may invoke another belief to further your first belief and may be get the services of a good belief generator and thus circulate ten beliefs that say that BA should have 70%.

Now you will get to 70% if I am bound by B, C and D. But how are you going to convince me if I dont share those other beliefs.

This dilemma has played out through out human history; science, democracy and separation of church and government are but facets of trying to resolve the inherent conflict in resolving such dilemmas.

We have tried belief based systems, it is not compatable with 21st century global existence. That is true in a mormon compound in Utah and in the far off mohmand agency. We have to develop a public space without dogma and belief. Its just that simple. Otherwise like the Amish we may survive as a novelty at the mercy of others (even they have chartered airplane and construction companies on modern grounds), but we will have no special place in the global arena (with our deserved share of global resources) - a direct path to extinction.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dear BA, your beliefs are a sacred part of you. Nobody has a right to ridicule them or label them in this or that category. Nobody until you commercialize your beliefs.

By commercializing I mean, use them in the public domain to settle issues, appropriate resources and such. This invariably leads to conflict as your beliefs will clash with mine. I will say Barakzai's should have 30% and Yousafzai 70% while you will hold an opposite belief. You may invoke another belief to further your first belief and may be get the services of a good belief generator and thus circulate ten beliefs that say that BA should have 70%.

Now you will get to 70% if I am bound by B, C and D. But how are you going to convince me if I dont share those other beliefs.

This dilemma has played out through out human history; science, democracy and separation of church and government are but facets of trying to resolve the inherent conflict in resolving such dilemmas.

We have tried belief based systems, it is not compatable with 21st century global existence. That is true in a mormon compound in Utah and in the far off mohmand agency. We have to develop a public space without dogma and belief. Its just that simple. Otherwise like the Amish we may survive as a novelty at the mercy of others (even they have chartered airplane and construction companies on modern grounds), but we will have no special place in the global arena (with our deserved share of global resources) - a direct path to extinction.

Once again, you are assuming that I advocate a belief based system. That is the part where you and Toramana split people. Edge and I, Edge and Shamlawar, Shamlawar and Unknownprince, Shamlawar and I and every other combination is a varying viewpoint.

I have said time and time again that I could care less if all of the Mohmad agency decided Bangra was its new religion. However, when it comes to what appears to be hoisting a system, by force, onto those folks, backed by American firepower and $$$, I have a problem with that.

My advice to you is to actually read and listen closely before assuming you know what people want.

You know Baygham, if Bukhari were resurrected today, a village Mullah might actually get him hanged. Do you know why? Its because Bukhari himself has hadith in his canon that discuss the subject of alternate Quranic readings (not accented, not dialectic, but actual wording differences). I have, myself experienced very rigid answers when discussing these hadith because the assumption is that if they are discussed, one is questioning the authenticity of the Quran, and thus Islam. Informed folks, scholars, etc. know this is not at all teh case and rejoice in this discussion.

By that same token, you assume too many things. You assume that someone who wishes for his people to progress as the superpower was allowed to progress (from Puritanical Massachussets Bay (their equivalent of Qandahar)) to their own middle ground.. is automatically in the camp of theological khilafath. This then makes you unwittingly into an equivalent of the Mullah, but in the secularist sense.

This is your splitting coming to the surface. Moroever, you project when you see someone outwardly display their faith but not even call for a religious khilafaath. For instance, if a mother tells her daughter that hijaab is a part of Islam, so what? If a daughter replies to her mother that not wearing hijaab does not place you out of the fold and they have this conversation in public, private, upside down, rightside up, who cares?
But to you, both are classified as religionists and fundies. Its unhealthy and some sort of response you have possibly to some childhood event or possibly from your parents' own beliefs.

[Baygham]

Once again, you are assuming that I advocate a belief based system. That is the part where you and Toramana split people. Edge and I, Edge and Shamlawar, Shamlawar and Unknownprince, Shamlawar and I and every other combination is a varying viewpoint.

I have said time and time again that I could care less if all of the Mohmad agency decided Bangra was its new religion. However, when it comes to what appears to be hoisting a system, by force, onto those folks, backed by American firepower and $$$, I have a problem with that.

My advice to you is to actually read and listen closely before assuming you know what people want.

You know Baygham, if Bukhari were resurrected today, a village Mullah might actually get him hanged. Do you know why? Its because Bukhari himself has hadith in his canon that discuss the subject of alternate Quranic readings (not accented, not dialectic, but actual wording differences). I have, myself experienced very rigid answers when discussing these hadith because the assumption is that if they are discussed, one is questioning the authenticity of the Quran, and thus Islam. Informed folks, scholars, etc. know this is not at all teh case and rejoice in this discussion.

By that same token, you assume too many things. You assume that someone who wishes for his people to progress as the superpower was allowed to progress (from Puritanical Massachussets Bay (their equivalent of Qandahar)) to their own middle ground.. is automatically in the camp of theological khilafath. This then makes you unwittingly into an equivalent of the Mullah, but in the secularist sense.

This is your splitting coming to the surface. Moroever, you project when you see someone outwardly display their faith but not even call for a religious khilafaath. For instance, if a mother tells her daughter that hijaab is a part of Islam, so what? If a daughter replies to her mother that not wearing hijaab does not place you out of the fold and they have this conversation in public, private, upside down, rightside up, who cares?
But to you, both are classified as religionists and fundies. Its unhealthy and some sort of response you have possibly to some childhood event or possibly from your parents' own beliefs.

In 1986 a friend of mine, who is a member here as well, went to a school in Swat. He found a new teacher, teaching a class of arabic and islamic studies. A class not taught in school before. That class and teacher were sent home in 1992 when funding ran out. Funds for the whole came from, USAID.
The taliban curriculum for primary school, printed in the Univ of nebraska.

Dear sir, this religious venom in our culture has been an unprecedented injection of toxins in our system, paid for by the american tax payer.

The moral, responsibilities of such callous, inhumane use of other humans for what ever global reason, is a crime against humanity. If now the USA wants to make mends, so be it. Knowing the american people, who are mostly just as naive and honest people as my fellow pashtoons in watan; the population dont bear the responsibility of all this. But some one else does. If america has to print more dollars, so be it. Not like they have to do anything more than that. They must pay for the detoxification of the system, just like BP has to pay for the oil spill in gulf. Plain and simple.

leaving us with serpents, nurtured and brought up with the full backing and know how of western civilization is an even bigger crime than the one already committed.

This can be done in a million of better ways than sending troops, I agree, but it has to be done.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

In 1986 a friend of mine, who is a member here as well, went to a school in Swat. He found a new teacher, teaching a class of arabic and islamic studies. A class not taught in school before. That class and teacher were sent home in 1992 when funding ran out. Funds for the whole came from, USAID.
The taliban curriculum for primary school, printed in the Univ of nebraska.

Dear sir, this religious venom in our culture has been an unprecedented injection of toxins in our system, paid for by the american tax payer.

The moral, responsibilities of such callous, inhumane use of other humans for what ever global reason, is a crime against humanity. If now the USA wants to make mends, so be it. Knowing the american people, who are mostly just as naive and honest people as my fellow pashtoons in watan; the population dont bear the responsibility of all this. But some one else does. If america has to print more dollars, so be it. Not like they have to do anything more than that. They must pay for the detoxification of the system, just like BP has to pay for the oil spill in gulf. Plain and simple.

leaving us with serpents, nurtured and brought up with the full backing and know how of western civilization is an even bigger crime than the one already committed.

This can be done in a million of better ways than sending troops, I agree, but it has to be done.

It has to come from within Baygham. Dont you see that your study of human nature is deficient? and your knowledge of history is abhorrently deficient and rigged?

Look, you assume a number of things. Just as BLS saib called me out the other day, and correctly so, for assuming he fit the automaton nationalist paradigm per that credo on the Malakand website page... you do the same things to those that call for you to reason and grasp reality. The reason for this is that splitting and projection are your defense mechanisms. Everyone who disagrees or reasons against you is a shadow mercenary of the Saudi state of Mullah Omar.

You talk about a cleansing effect and make the same mistake that Toramana pointed out to Osho Saib... you assume too many things, such as a cleansing process even taking place the first place, and that this is the intention of the SuperPower.

When Hamid Karzai stated that he should have joined the Taliban a few months ago... that should have been a hint to you. When a member of the effiminate, liberal, elite (Karzai derives from this) of Afghanistan feel that something is awry or amiss, you should analyze this closely. You instead dismiss this as "Karzai Shmarzai... he's a politician just playing the game." No, he's not... he nominated Abdul Rasul Sayaaf as Parliament's head recently.

Basically, what you advocate for, and make no mistake its an advocacy, not an acceptance of some event just happening, is a secular shiariah of sorts be implemented. Yet you ignore that historically, the constitution never follows the flag, either for us or Britian. The way that things are implemented are to benefit the super power and the people develop a dangerous blow back ideology.