Celebrity on PashtunForums?

[bernardwhite]

Mostafa,

Yes. that is the play that I am doing.

thank you again. I can't thank you enough.

everyone here. such melmastia!

[Admin Khan]

That was a good read Mostafa.

Bernard Khan,
When is the play?

[bernardwhite]

Admin Khan,

the play begins with previews on October 27.

we officially open on November 21.

we begin rehearsals on september 22.

Inshallah. . .

[bernardwhite]

Mostafa,

as the play begins (1981), my character is a fierce opponent of Hekmatyar. my character doesn't like his fundamentalist views.

my character has a line that says "Our war not for God, our war for Afghanistan. I fight for all my people! all my country!"

but by the end of the play, after my son is murdered by the Najibullah army, I join forces with Hekmatyar, because we have a common enemy.

do you still think I would have allied myself with the Islamists at Uni?

it makes a lot of sense what you say.

any thoughts?

as I build my character, I get to make this all up just for my own benefit. I just want to have a sense of what my past was before the play begins (1981).

we actors call this "back story".

[graveyardofempires]

^
well you may not agree with all of hekmatyars views but you too are a conservative from rural areas and cant trust other views than fellow conservatives.

you maybe not trusting hekmatyar cuz he is being directly against other factions like commies etc but this guy probably thinks they too need to be educated.

something along that line

but offcourse that changes later

[یاسمینه]

do you still think I would have allied myself with the Islamists at Uni?

Taking into account political situation in Afg in 60's and 70's and the origins of main political rurels its very likely.
Till 1973 Afghanistan was a monarchy and the king Zahir Shakh was a Pashtun from Muhammadzais. Additionally, between 1953-1963 and 1973-1978 Mohammad Daud was a Prime Minister. Daud was a supporter of the independency of Pashtunistan, with time his cabinet mainly consisted of trusted people from his clan or royal family.
I would say it's very likey that incoming Nuristani would rather join any branch of Islamist (who were opponents to Daud's republican regime) than LDPA (leftists). Plus, some sources says that after Islam had been "introduced" to Nuristanis (1896), they became devout Muslims. Even the name of their land - Nuristan means the light of light and Nuristais are called "enlightened" (noor - light).

[MostafaM]

Mostafa,

Yes. that is the play that I am doing.

thank you again. I can't thank you enough.

everyone here. such melmastia!

Salam Bernard Khan!

There is no need to thank me.

Actually, we have to thank you for being interested in our culture, sociaty and recent history.

And for trying to present us Afghans/Pashtuns in an authentic light in arts and media.

[MostafaM]

Mostafa,

as the play begins (1981), my character is a fierce opponent of Hekmatyar. my character doesn't like his fundamentalist views.

my character has a line that says "Our war not for God, our war for Afghanistan. I fight for all my people! all my country!"

but by the end of the play, after my son is murdered by the Najibullah army, I join forces with Hekmatyar, because we have a common enemy.

do you still think I would have allied myself with the Islamists at Uni?

it makes a lot of sense what you say.

any thoughts?

as I build my character, I get to make this all up just for my own benefit. I just want to have a sense of what my past was before the play begins (1981).

we actors call this "back story".

I see.....

Hmm, as far as I know, Afghanistan´s royal and presidential regime always tried to win the hearts and minds of the Nuristani people. One reason was that their nation was split by the Durand Line, too, like that of the Pashtuns.
So Kabul always tried to bring the sons of Nuristani notables into the armed forces by bringing them to Kabul and giving them the chance to go to the Military School.

There were many Nuristani officers in the army and some of them rose to the ranks of generals. Their patriotism and affiliation with Afghanistan and the Afghan people has never been questioned.

If you say that your character was more of a patriot and not an ideological islamist, then I would count him as political independent or maybe close to Pashtun nationalists like the Afghan Mellatis, a small political group influenced by German style social democracy with a distinct pro-Pashtun/Pashto rhetoric.

The other problem is that he, as a Khan, a notable man of his ancestral place, would have come into conflicts with leftwingers and Islamists for the reason that leftwing ideas wanted the feudal Khan culture to disappear, so Khans were a natural enemies of the Communists.
Islamists came into direct conflict with these tribal leaders, too, because their approach was to sideline Khans and tribal elders and replace them with islamic ideology driven people. Political Islam rejects Khanism, too, because it rejects the power of successive rulers by blood bond.

Political Islam and Communism share a common ground regarding rebuilding a sociaty.

At Kabul Uni he may have first tried to associate with people from his ancestral area.....maybe with Pashtuns from the eastern parts of Afghanistan (Kunar, Nangarhar and fellow Nuristanis).
He may have been disillusioned by the constant infights and he may have maintained close relations to non-affiliated students who had the same social background of rural notable families who could have been wealthy. Khans were normally wealthy peersons who possessed land and cattle but respect didn´t come solely with money. Their role in defusing tribal or family conflicts as well as finding solutions to the greater problems of their communities had alot to do with their moral and ethical behaviour and wisdome, too.

I hope my words were helpful.
If you have any further questions, I am sure the members here and me would help you out.

Khudai pa aman

[khushal]

If you say that your character was more of a patriot and not an ideological islamist, then I would count him as political independent or maybe close to Pashtun nationalists like the Afghan Mellatis, a small political group influenced by German style social democracy with a distinct pro-Pashtun/Pashto rhetoric.

The other problem is that he, as a Khan, a notable man of his ancestral place, would have come into conflicts with leftwingers and Islamists for the reason that leftwing ideas wanted the feudal Khan culture to disappear, so Khans were a natural enemies of the Communists.
Islamists came into direct conflict with these tribal leaders, too, because their approach was to sideline Khans and tribal elders and replace them with islamic ideology driven people. Political Islam rejects Khanism, too, because it rejects the power of successive rulers by blood bond.

Political Islam and Communism share a common ground regarding rebuilding a sociaty.

Political Islam and Communism are complete opposites as far as building a society. Islam recognizes private property and the distribution of resources according to a persons contribution to society where as Communism does not recognize private property and resource distribution is more equal and contribution to society is not really considered. Political Islam recognizes other religions rights and offers protection in exchange for taxes where communism outlaws religious practice so it becomes a religion by itself.

I have never heard of a feudal system in Nuristan. Nuristanis are tribal people where each member of the tribe owns land. A feudal Khan from Nuristan is unlikely. Feudal Khans usually exist in big cities in Afghanistan, not in rural areas.
While it is true that the Nuristanis way of life would have come in direct conflict with Communism(One of the reason that the first people to revolt against the communist where the Nuristanis, and some of the fiercest fighting in the Soviet-Afghan war took place in Nuristan), it would not have come in conflict with the Islamists(Reason you dont see a Taliban/Nuristani conflict but actually an alliance). Afghan Islamists recognizes private property and also the rights of the tribes. Nuristanis who are a tribal people will reject any central authority.

If your character were to choose an ideology, the likely one would be an Islamist ideology but not necessarily. Nuristani communists and nationalists did exist but they would not have much grass roots support from their ancestorial land. They would most likely stay in Kabul trying to get promoted in the military.

As far as the Quote "our war not for God, our war for Afghanistan" seems odd coming from a Nuristani. That is a something that would come from the mouth of a nationalist. Nuristanis are fiercely independent, pro Islam, and proud of their own heritage. They don't recognize the Durand line because they are not nationalistic, they prefer autonomy and no central authority. When an Afghan says We fight for God, they mean that they are fighting for their "God Given Rights." So to a Nuristani that would be the God given right to be free from central authority.

If you were to come in conflict with Hekmatyar, it would probably not be ideology, but method. Hekmatayar was very aggressive and had no patients. He executed a very poorly planned an unsuccessful coup against the Daud regime and he also shelled Kabul for no apparent goal or reasoning.

[MostafaM]

Political Islam and Communism are complete opposites as far as building a society. Islam recognizes private property and the distribution of resources according to a persons contribution to society where as Communism does not recognize private property and resource distribution is more equal and contribution to society is not really considered. Political Islam recognizes other religions rights and offers protection in exchange for taxes where communism outlaws religious practice so it becomes a religion by itself.

A sociaty is not just built upon the economical structure.
Political Islam and Communism share a common ground on the basis of theory of the state:

- both systems are anti-pluralistic because their ideology is regarded as eternal and unquestionable;
- both systems apply a direct form of representation in the great assembly
(council in communism, a so-called shura in Islam)
- both systems are constructed on the pyramid scheme with a leading brass
(in Islam it is the personal union of a worldly and religious leader aka Amir/Khalifa, in a communist system is the chairman of the politbureau; both are surrounded by people who follow them ideologically...)
- both systems don´t apply the concept of division of power
- both system´s armed and security forces are highly politicized and are under the direct rule of the leading brass

You say, that Islam allowes other religions to be practiced.
That´s definitly true.
Communism allows you to pray and do whatever you want in private, too.

Both systems based on a religion or faith don´t allow other political views to be expressed openly!

I have never heard of a feudal system in Nuristan. Nuristanis are tribal people where each member of the tribe owns land. A feudal Khan from Nuristan is unlikely. Feudal Khans usually exist in big cities in Afghanistan, not in rural areas.
While it is true that the Nuristanis way of life would have come in direct conflict with Communism(One of the reason that the first people to revolt against the communist where the Nuristanis, and some of the fiercest fighting in the Soviet-Afghan war took place in Nuristan), it would not have come in conflict with the Islamists(Reason you dont see a Taliban/Nuristani conflict but actually an alliance). Afghan Islamists recognizes private property and also the rights of the tribes. Nuristanis who are a tribal people will reject any central authority.

1. Not every member of tribes own land.
There are alot of people who work on the lands of landowners.

2. Feudal Khans existing in "big cities" is a contradiction in itself because to be a feudal Khan, you need agricultural land. Big cities are called big cities because people live in them. They are not places of agricultural production of wheat, fruits etc.

3. The reason why Hekmatyar lost all of his major power bases was that his ideologically driven version of Islam was not acceptable to the people. And Nuristan was and still is to some extent one of the placed he used to have followers.
The existence of insurgent fighters in an area is not an indication that the ordinary people fully agree with them ideologically.
During the Soveit occupation specially Hisb-e Islami Hekmatyar had power bases across the ethnicities and areas all over Afghanistan. Reasons were sufficient funds, weaponry and his ideology that transcended through tribal or regional boundaries.
After the Soviets left, his party was the first to crumble because natural bonds of blood, region and tribe were stronger than any ideology could have been.

If your character were to choose an ideology, the likely one would be an Islamist ideology but not necessarily. Nuristani communists and nationalists did exist but they would not have much grass roots support from their ancestorial land. They would most likely stay in Kabul trying to get promoted in the military.

I have never heard of any Nuristani idealogue.....communist or islamist.
Please keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of the Afghan population is Muslim but not idealogically driven.

As far as the Quote "I dont fight for Islam, I fight for Afghanistan" seems odd coming from a Nuristani. That is a something that would come from the mouth of a nationalist. Nuristanis are fiercely independent, pro Islam, and proud of their own heritage. They don't recognize the Durand line because they are not nationalistic, they prefer autonomy and no central authority.

Nuristanis with close links to Afghanistan would have fought for Afghanistan without being ideologically driven nationalists with a distinct idea of a nation-state etc.
You make this whole debate a little to easy.
Since Nuristan came under direct rule of Kabul and since they became Muslims, their connection to Afghanistan was strong.

For example, the whole field hockey team of Afghanistan were almost completely Nuristanis. Their presence in sociaty was visible.

If you were to come in conflict with Hekmatyar, it would probably not be ideology, but method. Hekmatayar was very aggressive and had no patients. He executed a very poorly planned an unsuccessful coup against the Daud regime and he also shelled Kabul for no apparent goal or reasoning.

I think that the Nuristani Khan would have been a moderate muslim with a distinct connection to Nuristani and Afghan sociaty and he would have been alien to the teachings of Islamist movemens like the Ikhwan Al-Muslimeen and others, who spread their ideologies amongst the urbanised, educated and well-written Muslim youth across the Islamic world who had lost any tribal or regional connection during their socialisation process.

[RanadahRanadah]

Pohanah Ranadah (Education is light)

Pohanah Ranadah (Education is light)

Dear All,

I hope you are all well and safe where ever you are in the World.

I truely believe and it is true that"
Pohanah Ranadah (Education is light)"

All others than pashton people on earh are better equcated both our friends and allies and our enemies. Because we are not educated enough to help our friends and our enemies to stop shedding our blood for their own gains!!

Let us spreads Pohanah educate us who we are and how we can compete and over come the challanges of today selfish World with little morals! we can tell friends and foes that no more games and plays!

Let us start doing schooling for all our people!

Let us first know whats we have as people foremost:
1. National Language as Pashto
2. National Anthem (We two currently being used)
2. National dress (Which we already have the best of all dressess)
3. National code of life which is pashtonwali which is most bueatiful way of life closer to Islam.
4. Religion which is Islam.
5. Full total unconditional control over our land natural resources and their utilizations.


Pohanah Ranadah (Education is light) let us spread it.

We must remember:
Anyone on earth either friends or foes who are using natural resources, we need to challange them with wisdoms and logics first give them time and make them understand, if they do not refrain from taking advantage of our people, we have every right like anyone else under all divine laws and internationally recongonized laws to fight with all means at our disposal but remeber you all, we must stop dying anymore outnumbering our enemies, we must kill one for one, if an enemy kill one of us, we must kill one of them. We must all held the killers of our people responsible and bring them to justices. If we stand united as Pashtons all across the World all injustices, we willl to an immidate end! An injustice to one Pashto anywhere in the World is an justics all of us.

[bernardwhite]

I see.....


The other problem is that he, as a Khan, a notable man of his ancestral place, would have come into conflicts with leftwingers and Islamists for the reason that leftwing ideas wanted the feudal Khan culture to disappear, so Khans were a natural enemies of the Communists.
Islamists came into direct conflict with these tribal leaders, too, because their approach was to sideline Khans and tribal elders and replace them with islamic ideology driven people. Political Islam rejects Khanism, too, because it rejects the power of successive rulers by blood bond.

Khans were normally wealthy peersons who possessed land and cattle but respect didn´t come solely with money. Their role in defusing tribal or family conflicts as well as finding solutions to the greater problems of their communities had alot to do with their moral and ethical behaviour and wisdome, too.

this specific talk about what it is to be a "Khan" is very helpful.

so being the newbie that I am, let me ask some very basic (but oh so necessary) questions.

what exactly is a Khan? what is the path to becoming a Khan?

particularly in Nuristan.

is is more handed down or earned?

the information on who a Khan is that's already been given is wonderful.

can anyone speak more on this? elaborate further?

[graveyardofempires]

this specific talk about what it is to be a "Khan" is very helpful.

so being the newbie that I am, let me ask some very basic (but oh so necessary) questions.

what exactly is a Khan? what is the path to becoming a Khan?

particularly in Nuristan.

is is more handed down or earned?

the information on who a Khan is that's already been given is wonderful.

can anyone speak more on this? elaborate further?

khan is a title given to people by kings.

People inherit being khan,many khans have alot of land and property.
but having land an dproperty doesnt make you a khan but it is the respect you get from people for your character.
someone can be poor yet be khan and someone rich but still not khan.
khan is also used as a noum meaning rich.


in a small village a khan can be considered like a mayor,but it goes deeper.
Khans are respected for their service towards the people but some khans can be cruel and abusing people.

i remember even in kabul almost every neighbourhood had someone who is taking care of problems such as problems between neighbours or the whole neighbourhood banding together to clean the streets.

its time break my fast will be back soon.

[MostafaM]

this specific talk about what it is to be a "Khan" is very helpful.

so being the newbie that I am, let me ask some very basic (but oh so necessary) questions.

what exactly is a Khan? what is the path to becoming a Khan?

particularly in Nuristan.

is is more handed down or earned?

the information on who a Khan is that's already been given is wonderful.

can anyone speak more on this? elaborate further?

Salam Bernard!

I do not agree with my colleague Graveyard.
He said that Khans were elected by Kings but in my mind that was never the case.

The Royals always relied on tribal chiefs and Khans because those Khans could rally armed tribal armies, support the King or in some cases, bring down whole dynasties by revolting.

The Khans were respected members of communities and there are slightly different ways in Pashtun sociatiy how Khans or elders are elected.

To give you a rough overview:

The Pashtuns are separated along the imaginary border south of Paktika province into softer Pashto (Greater Kandahar region) and the rougher Pakhto ( from Nuristan to Paktika).

The election of Khans or tribal elders depends on the areas, too.

For example:
the Greater Kandahar area always elected well-known, wealthy and powerfull men as their Khans. Influental people with backing in the population.

In the Greater Paktia areas, elders or so-called "speen geereys" (Whit Beards) were respected people who were known for their wisdom, their nobility, achievements during times of war and modesty and humbleness.
Not every "White Beard" was rich or a big landowner.

In the eastern Provinces, I am not really sure.
I think they have more in common with the deep tribal systems of the Greater Paktia areas.

In general, Pashtun sociaty favours men who have two major qualities:

"tura", means sword literally. A person who has "tura" or is "turyalay" is considered a good warrior, brave, honest and sincere.

"aql", means reason literatlly. A warrior without reason or intellect, is almost useless because he cannot graps the complexity of daily life, difficult choices regarding his family and tribe.
Sometimes "aql" and the term "qalam" are used interchangeably....."qalam" means pen literally. A person who has "qalam" is considered wise, literate and thoughtfull.

A Khan has unite these two main qualities......tura and aql or qalam.

[MostafaM]

The Movie "Beast of War" with Steven Bauer as a young Pashtun Khan named Taj would be helpful for you to watch.

He plays the role of a hot-headed Khan who´s father and brother have been martyred by Russian soldiers and where he tries to take revenge throughout the movie......