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[Laila]

oh and this is what a lungee looks like



^ That style is for everyday wear, just for the normal person.



^ This style is usually worn for jirga meetings and for the "khan" if that is what you are looking for.

[bernardwhite]

thank you all. this is really giving me a head start before I start rehearsal.

I am sure the costume designer will have researched all of the dress questions but I just want to make sure I go to authentic sources before hand.

yes, Laila. I am a Pakhto speaking Nuristani Khan.

the pictures of Nuristani's that I've seen show a people generally with a lighter skin color.

I myself was born in Sri Lanka. so I am brown skinned. especially in summer.

[graveyardofempires]

thank you all. this is really giving me a head start before I start rehearsal.

I am sure the costume designer will have researched all of the dress questions but I just want to make sure I go to authentic sources before hand.

yes, Laila. I am a Pakhto speaking Nuristani Khan.

the pictures of Nuristani's that I've seen show a people generally with a lighter skin color.

I myself was born in Sri Lanka. so I am brown skinned. especially in summer.

this is how nuristanis look




there are almost identitical with Pashtuns

these are majority nuristanis with Pashtuns

Taliban-controlled areas in the city of Nuristan - YouTube
US military base under Taliban control - YouTube

[khushal]

Pashtuns wear lungees, which is a form of turban.

The 'Khan' is usually the elder, wise one. So he would wear a big lungee. Usually its a white, black, gray, navy blue colors. There isnt much of a 'distinguishing' dress between the leader and other tribesman. Pakool is common but not as much amongst village areas as the city like: Kabul, Kandahar (city), Jalalabad.

Is a patoo part of your attire? It really should be if its not. Its part of a distinguishing dress of Pashtuns.

Guest: Give your right hand for a hand shake. Then place your right hand over your heart and say your greetings.

Friend: ^ same way

Now if it was a close friend, you would be a little more formal. You would give your hand for a shake, then as you give it to them, you give the cheek to cheek concept. Since you dont literally kiss them on the cheek, unless its family. It would usually be one cheek, but sometimes two.

Oh and let me add. Pashtuns do not give only their right hand in a hand shake. They give both hands. So lets say i am a guy and you extend your hand for a greeting. I give you my right hand, and over your hand, i would put my other hand. That is how we do it. And this hand shake is not a one second one, its usually a few seconds. Pashtuns do not finish their greetings so fast, it takes a few seconds while shaking hands. And as you are doing this, you always give duas and not solely a 'thank you.'


Like Admin khana, said. Nuristanis are not Pashtuns, but live amongst Pashtuns. They live with in Laghmanis and Kunaris. And since that region speaks the 'Kheen' dialect, then yes you would say Pakhto.



what KingKhan said

if you have more questions, do not hestitate to ask. We are all here to help you

So your role is a Pashto speaking Nuristani?

The kissing on the cheek is mostly a Kubali culture, it is not Pashtun. Although to some extent the culture have spread to other areas. Pashtun women on the other hand do kiss when they greet each other. The only time men kiss the cheek during greeting is to a small child or when its a grown man it would be his son or nephew if they have not seen each other for a long time. But traditionally pashtuns hug three times before what Laila said about the hand shake with two hands and then placing your right hand on your heart. So when you hug your head would go to the other persons right side and then to the left and back to the right but this happens during one embrace. Lately especially in Pakistan the embrace has been changed to just putting the hands on the shoulder, there is no embrace. Like laila said Traditionally the greeting is very long. You would ask the other person "how are you, is health fine, is your family fine, are your kids fine, etc..." when you first greet the person then later you would ask him again, and then also a third time you would ask him again, and he is also asking you the same thing at the same time so you don't answer until what your asking is over and it is usually at the same time. An answer would be "alahumdulilah, everything is fine, thank you, may allah reward you paradise.

now in your case, since your son dies, people and friends and family in general would be very concerned about you. They would would go to the extreme to comfort you of your loss. They would show you extreme compassion and care.

Pashutwali is a term used by outsiders. Like other members said its a a code that pashtuns live by. Its basically the law in pashtunland. Avenging your sons death would be part of the code, the code gives you the right and obligation to avenge your sons death. People would not look at you as a murderer if you avenge your sons death but would actually respect you because of the code. Pashtun just say pakhto or pashto for this term, we would say something like "pakhto waka," do pakhto meaning pashtunwali or do the code of pakhto or the way of pakhto. But pashtuns dont say we follow the code of pashtunwali, pashtuns would say we follow the code of pashto or pakhto.

[bernardwhite]

here's something I am very curious about;

LIFE IN AFGHANISTAN BEFORE THE SOVIET INVASION. FROM THE END OF WWII TO 1981.

can anyone give me personal stories or anecdotes or feelings? the more specific and detailed the better.

but even to speak generally would be helpful.

or perhaps direct me to a thread that speaks to this subject?

or books? or films?

or anything in general?

in the play, my character, went to Kabul University in the 60's. Hekmatyar was a classmate of mine.

can anyone give me any insight into the life at Kabul University in the 60's?

[graveyardofempires]

here's something I am very curious about;

LIFE IN AFGHANISTAN BEFORE THE SOVIET INVASION. FROM THE END OF WWII TO 1981.

In ww2 Afghanistan was neutral even though Afghanistan had a good friendship with germany.

there was calm int he time of zahir shah and people were enjoyig alot of "freedom" ,they could even call the king "a dog" and wouldnt be prosecuted.
the Pashtuns were kept uneducated and there was also reasonable progress.

the Afghan king was deposed and Afghanistan became a republic with daud Khan as the president.This era was semi turbulent.

daud khan was killed because he was being too much against the afghan communist party.

can anyone give me personal stories or anecdotes or feelings? the more specific and detailed the better.

i heard from my parents that there was a good time in zahir shahs time cuz people could go to picnics and also celeberate many festivities.

but even to speak generally would be helpful.


or perhaps direct me to a thread that speaks to this subject?
Check my thread about afghan post stamps
or books? or films?
i could get you some videos maybe that will give you a picture
or anything in general?

in the play, my character, went to Kabul University in the 60's. Hekmatyar was a classmate of mine.
Hekmatyar was in a group which were Islamic and they were in Kabul university.Lets say they were anti communist.

can anyone give me any insight into the life at Kabul University in the 60's?

about life in kabul university i have to aks around.

[یاسمینه]

I wanted to quote something what I found about Pashtun-Nuristani relations:
"Often, feelings of cultural superiority were expressed by other groups; firstly by Dari-speaking intelligentsia, Turkic people or Nuristani."

And something about languages: languages Kati (Katai), Waigali (Wai, Wai-ala, Kalasha-ala), Ashkun (Ashkund, Wamai) and Parsun (Vasi-veri, Veron, Paruni) with their numerous dialects were used (apart from Pashto) before 1979 in Nuristan.

[یاسمینه]

Life in AFG before invasion - book Three Women of Herat by Veronica Doubleday (stories limited to the city of Herat but it may give you a clue about life in cities before Soviet invasion and the coup)

Another book written much later may tell about daily life in Pashtun villages: Benedicte Grima, Secrets From the Field.

[Laila]

here's something I am very curious about;

LIFE IN AFGHANISTAN BEFORE THE SOVIET INVASION. FROM THE END OF WWII TO 1981.

can anyone give me personal stories or anecdotes or feelings? the more specific and detailed the better.

but even to speak generally would be helpful.

or perhaps direct me to a thread that speaks to this subject?

or books? or films?

or anything in general?

in the play, my character, went to Kabul University in the 60's. Hekmatyar was a classmate of mine.

can anyone give me any insight into the life at Kabul University in the 60's?

I can help you with this since both my parents went to Kabul University before the Soviets came.

Just give me this weekend to reply

[MostafaM]

oh and this is what a lungee looks like



^ That style is for everyday wear, just for the normal person.



^ This style is usually worn for jirga meetings and for the "khan" if that is what you are looking for.

Hi Bernhard,

this is not correct.

The way turbans are worn depends on the area and the tribe you are from.
The first picture shows a normal Afghan. The way he wears his turban is worn by Tajiks and others, too.

The second picture is that of a Pashtun from the Katawaaz area. This colour and way of wearin the turban is worn across the Durand Line in the tribal areas, specially within the Massud and Wazir tribe, too, but they do not just stick to this colour but others, too.

Most people wear their turban on top of a small hat....in some areas that hat is big, like in this pic:

[MostafaM]

here's something I am very curious about;

LIFE IN AFGHANISTAN BEFORE THE SOVIET INVASION. FROM THE END OF WWII TO 1981.

can anyone give me personal stories or anecdotes or feelings? the more specific and detailed the better.

but even to speak generally would be helpful.

or perhaps direct me to a thread that speaks to this subject?

or books? or films?

or anything in general?

in the play, my character, went to Kabul University in the 60's. Hekmatyar was a classmate of mine.

can anyone give me any insight into the life at Kabul University in the 60's?

The general social situation was:

Zaher Shah, the king of Afghanistan, was moving from an absolute to a representative monarchy and tried to establish politcal reforms.
School and medical care was free although Afghanistan was a very poor country.
The big cities were places of change, specially Kabul. Western influence in an economical, cultural and social way was evident.

The general political situation:

The monarchy since the reign of Zaher Shah started (in fact, is three uncles were governing the country for him for a very long time) always tried to keep the ordinary people apolitical and to a certain extent away from real education. They tried to save their power by letting the old tribal structures they way they were and integrating tribal figures into their system of governing large areas of Afghanistan through personal subordinates.

The only problem was, that the major cities had a developing class of population. A nascent burgeoisie in Kabul had access to higher education, a small young and political motivated but divied intelligentia built up across the universities in Kabul:
like in any other Islamic country during the period of the bipolar world order during the Cold War, they were divided in leftwing and rightwing gtroups.
The KGB had established the PDPA (the communist party of Afghanistan) in 1965 but their leaders had started their recruitments earlier thant that.
The Chinese-brand communist, the members of the Shola-e Javed (Eternal Flame), got their ideological support from China.
The rightwing parties were on the one hand Islamic parties and on the other hand various forms of nationalist and ethnocentric parties. They didn´t play a major role in the 50ies and 60ies. Their time would come after the Soviet invasion.

So, the campuses and the greater Kabul area was a battle zone for those young students, their political ideas and their personal conflicts.


Hekmatyar studied some semesters at the Kabul Polytech University that was funded by the Russians, so most of the lecturers were either Russian educated or Russians themselves.
My father held some lectures there in the 70ies. If you need any detailed information, I would ask him.

The cadres of both political blocks knew about the greater conflict that was going on in the world, they knew who their allies were. The young tagalongs were just interested in a positive change to sociaty. My parents tell me that 70% of all the students who rallied in the demonstrations were just there to have a good time and to skip classes.


There was a huge potential in those young people but their causes were highjacked by powers they didn´t knew and understand.


The situations in the Unis:

Daily protests were common. Daily physical fights between Islamically motivated students and leftwingers were common, too. There were huge personal fights between gangs around Najibullah, a medical student and later president, and Hekmatyar, an engineering undergraduate and later prime minister.
Regular fights between the Sholais (Chinese brand commis) and PDPA (Russian brand commis) were usual, too.


During this time, all parties tried to consolidate their grip on sociaty but almost all of them failed but the PDPA people. They had Russian backing, the Khalq Faction of the PDPA was very active inside the armed forces and recruited there, the Parcham faction recruited among the students and burgeoisie.

After the takeover of Daud Khan and the establishment of a presidential system, Afghanistan allied itself to the USSR militarily and financially.
So, very huge amounts of military and civilian advisers came into Afghanistan from Russia and those people consolidated the grip of the PDPA even more.

A small-scale insurgency, led by Islamic groups under Ahmad Shah Massoud and Hekmatyar, ended quickly. They had revolted against the left-leaning policy of Daud Khan.
The influence of Pakistan was evident because it feared a nationalist Afghanistan and tried to undermine that by arming and harbouring islamic groups.
So, Hekmatyar and Massoud didn´t just receive funds from Pakistan, they were trained there and fled to Pakistan after their coup failed.
(Known as the „Panjsher Coup“)

[bernardwhite]

Mostafa1919,

tacha kore,

this really helps. especially knowing about university life. the political climate, etc.

I would love to hear any details about your father's time lecturing at Kabul Polytech Universtiy.

can you conjecture on how a Khan from nuristan would find himself at Kabul University in the early 60's?

[Afghanistan2010]

Insurgents are also on PF ?....

haha

[MostafaM]

Mostafa1919,

tacha kore,

this really helps. especially knowing about university life. the political climate, etc.

I would love to hear any details about your father's time lecturing at Kabul Polytech Universtiy.

can you conjecture on how a Khan from nuristan would find himself at Kabul University in the early 60's?

Salam Bernard,
hope you are well.

My father´s general experience:

When he was sent to do his PhD by the Afghan government in an eastern European country in the early 70ies, the army had already an amount of some senior officers and many middle rank officers who were highly influenced by the Communist ideology. Although it was not allowed for Army officers to take part in elections, be member of a political party or even read the newspaper (!!) during Zaher Shah´s time, he could feel the spreading of an egalitarian ideology.....
He had friends who tried to talk to him about these issues and even distant family members who activly tried to recruit him when he was a young officer.
(But due to luck and the influence of my grandfather and family, he wasn´t dragged into these political movements what would grant him a prison term after the Communist take over in 1982 for being suspicious of anti-regime behaviour)

After he came back after 5 years, Daoud Khan had already established his presidential regime. He actually got informed about the ouster of Zaher Shah via the radio and the Afghan Embassy where he was staying for his Phd.
Afghanistan lacked to a certain extent academic cadre, so although he was a carreer officer and a construction engineer at the Construction Department of the Ministry of Defence, he was ordered into teaching students at the Polytech Uni in building history and survey. He held similar lectures at the Engineering School for Army Officers.

He had told me that the students affiliated with political movements were in general very bad students because they spent their time with organising demonstrations and gatherings.

His personal feeling was that the students were highly influenced and came to class while not being able to concentrate......they constantly made insider jokes between each other......and even in class the political blocks were evident to the point that they sat together and used a certain way of language to make themselves recognizable.

For example:
The Chinese brand Communists (Shola-e Javed), who were staunch enemies of the Islamists and Russian brand Communist, had always a different rhetoric. They came mostly from a Farsi-speaking background, their leadership mostly consisted of well-read and educated Shias from Old Town Kabul. They were very very ideologically motivated. People could easily spot them by their sharp rhetorics.
The Russian brand Communists of the Khalq faction were mostly Pashtuns and a large segment of them were rural Pashtuns who had made to the Army College or the Military School. Their way of communication was distinct, too. Their Pashtun identity even came through while they presented internationalistic ideas. Their ideology wasn´t that well rooted. Their aim to join the Khalq-Faction of the PDPA was to change sociaty to an extent that tribal and social bonds of those times would change. Their motivations became clear after they sized power in the Communist Coup: many Khalqis went to their ancestral villages and killed respected people there who they had a beef with. So, my conclusion is that they revolted against their own and their families social status by joining the Khalq.
The Parcham faction people mostly came from well-off or atleast normal families who had access to education. They were mostly burgeois people and many of them were Farsi-speaking or Pashtuns who had adopted Farsi as their major language on a daily basis. Parchamis were more under the Russian influence thant the Khalqis were. The nationalistic tendencies with a distinct Pashto influence was evident with the Khalqis, the Parchamis were more Farsi leaning.
There were smaller factions within Parcham who were highly anti-Pashtun but their significance on daily politics was not there in the 70ies. Their role would become bigger in the middle of the 80ies during the era of the breakdown of the army and the rise of the ethnocentric view on warfare by establishing ethnically homogene militias.
The Islamists were mostly studying engineering, Islamic studies, medicine and agricultural sciences.
Their appearance wasn´t visible as a political movement. They were more secretive, their gatherings weren´t open and not all of their members were known to the other political movements. They had learned from the experience of other Islamic movements who had survived hostile regimes like the groups in Egypt. Their cadres like Rabbani, Sayyaf etc. were educated in Islamic sciences and had lived in Arabic speaking countries where they had completed their studies and had made contacts to the loose internationalist network of Islamic groups.


Nuristani Khan in Kabul Uni:

If the Nuristani Khan was studying with Hekmatyar together, then he was an engineering undergraduate, too.
Nuristanis speak a various range of languages and many of them are fluent in Pashto, too.

He would have found himself in a really hostile terrain because the Polytech Uni was highly infiltrated by Russian teachers and communist-sympathizers. I would think that daily conflicts with fellow students and teachers could have been possible.....verbal conflicts definitly, physical ones maybe off-campus.

My dad remembers that the Islamist students were actually good in their studies, the top brass of them was not. But I think that was the case with the other factions, too. The head figures were always lousy students.

The Nuristani Khan would have allied himself with the Pashto speaking Islamists at Uni which weren´t that many, although there was a small common ground with Pashto speaking Communists from the Khalq faction, too.

[MostafaM]

Is that the play you were talking about, Bernard?

LCT Announces Casting for BLOOD AND GIFTS