Tajiks, Farsiwan, and Persianized Pashtuns

[Golden]

Why would you photoshop a paki flag on her cheek, she must viewed by your people as one of the top 10 treasures of panzabi's to do that. Yeah she's decent but most of us probably wouldn't give her a second look or even notice her..meanwhile you guys are stamping your authority on her and making her into a trademark.

Jis ghali jana nai uska rasta puchne ka faida?

[Aryana]

Nobody cares.

Here you are, losers, disrespecting each other for eyebrows lmao

No one cares about your opinion, except for that Yemeni.

Since when did I disrespect people for eyebrows? The sexual abuse from your uncle is now messing up your ability to comprehend.

[Manzareh]

Jis ghali jana nai uska rasta puchne ka faida?

Kwana winza belmaza. Wolamba che yukh sheh

[ZarakDurrani606]

Pashtun is derived from Pakhta. While Afghan is derived from Aspagan most likely. Considering how important Aspa is in Ariana/Bactrian history Afghan could also be derived from the Aspa ruling families of Balkh. Though thats a very out there theory just throwing it out there.

Aspa....... as in horse?

[Temur]

The deception of LOOKS

Many people here refer to LOOKS..a Scythian,Persian,Afghan etc. This is deceiving. Unless you are an Indian from a secluded tribe from Amazon forest or African bush ,your looks mean nothing. With 1000s of genes coming from heterogeneous ancestresses you can be like any one of them I met Tajiks looking like Mongols and Uighurs looking like Aryans. So forget this BS.

[Kakar-Wardak]

Many people here refer to LOOKS..a Scythian,Persian,Afghan etc. This is deceiving. Unless you are an Indian from a secluded tribe from Amazon forest or African bush ,your looks mean nothing. With 1000s of genes coming from heterogeneous ancestresses you can be like any one of them I met Tajiks looking like Mongols and Uighurs looking like Aryans. So forget this BS.

Although this is true as long as you carry the gene for a certain characteristic it can pop up, but this is extremely rare, 99.9% of people will be a mix of the genes of their 4 grandparents or their 8 great grandparents.

[Daryeh]

Everyone who speaks Farsi in Afghanistan and is not Hazara nowadays is called Tajik. However this is false in reality there are three different types.

1. Real Tajiks- Real Tajiks are those whos ancestors came across the Oxus during their russian occupation. Real Tajiks are a mix of Sogdians, Persian, and Turks.

2. Farsiwan- These people have the same origins as Pashtuns, have been here just as long, and their just persianized Eastern Aryans.

3. Persianized Pashtuns- Name speaks for itself really. Im guessing their mostly from areas like Kabul and Herat.

These people are only counted as Tajik because the Russians wanted to use cultural similarities of Afghanistan and Tajikistan to their advantage.

To bad us Afghans have been so easy to brainwash.

There's no reliable ethnographic studies done but this is what I understand:

1. Farsiwan. Name given by Pashtuns for the Persian-speaking Shiites with populations in Herat, Farah, Ghor and Ghazni. Although they don't call themselves Farsiwan, they call themselves Farsizaban or Tajiks. They are similar in culture and dialect to Persian-speakers in north eastern Iran.

2. Pamiri Tajiks. They are Pamiri peoples related to the Pamiris in Tajikistan.

3. Aimaq. Persian-speaking Sunnis of mixed Iranic and Mongol origin who are nomad/semi-nomadic with traditional homelands in western Afghanistan. They are sometimes grouped under Tajiks anyway.

4. Mainland Tajiks in northern and central Afghanistan. They are similar to mainland Tajiks in Tajikistan except the former have been culturally influenced by Pashtuns whilst the latter have been influenced by Uzbeks.

5. Pashtunized Tajiks/Persianised Pashtuns/mixed Pashtun-Tajiks. There are a significant number of Pashtun-Tajiks (like vice-pres. Abdullah Abdullah) who identify as Tajik, or ethnic Tajiks who assimilate into a broader "Afghan" identity. Some Tajiks within Kabul seem to be like this.

Persian speakers in Afghanistan and Iran generally identify with their region, not their ethnicity (e.g. Shirazi, Herati, Badakhshani). I'm not sure if Tajiks in Tajikistan do the same.

[UnknownUser]

There's no reliable ethnographic studies done but this is what I understand:

1. Farsiwan. Name given by Pashtuns for the Persian-speaking Shiites with populations in Herat, Farah, Ghor and Ghazni. Although they don't call themselves Farsiwan, they call themselves Farsizaban or Tajiks. They are similar in culture and dialect to Persian-speakers in north eastern Iran.

2. Pamiri Tajiks. They are Pamiri peoples related to the Pamiris in Tajikistan.

3. Aimaq. Persian-speaking Sunnis of mixed Iranic and Mongol origin who are nomad/semi-nomadic with traditional homelands in western Afghanistan. They are sometimes grouped under Tajiks anyway.

4. Mainland Tajiks in northern and central Afghanistan. They are similar to mainland Tajiks in Tajikistan except the former have been culturally influenced by Pashtuns whilst the latter have been influenced by Uzbeks.

5. Pashtunized Tajiks/Persianised Pashtuns/mixed Pashtun-Tajiks. There are a significant number of Pashtun-Tajiks (like vice-pres. Abdullah Abdullah) who identify as Tajik, or ethnic Tajiks who assimilate into a broader "Afghan" identity. Some Tajiks within Kabul seem to be like this.

Persian speakers in Afghanistan and Iran generally identify with their region, not their ethnicity (e.g. Shirazi, Herati, Badakhshani). I'm not sure if Tajiks in Tajikistan do the same.

I thought Farsiwans were different from Tajiks/Farsizabans, in the sense that they were recent ethnic Pashtuns that adopted Persian custums and language, hence why the term Farsiwan rather than Farsizaban.

[Daryeh]

I thought Farsiwans were different from Tajiks/Farsizabans, in the sense that they were recent ethnic Pashtuns that adopted Persian custums and language, hence why the term Farsiwan rather than Farsizaban.

From what I've read Farsiwan are Shiite Tajiks. They're basically of similar stock to the Persians in northeastern Iran. After all, Herat was part of Iran until around the 18th century. I think Farsiwan is just a name the Pashtuns gave to them in Pashto since Persians are identified by language not ethnicity. That being said, I've taken this information from western sources. Maybe Pashtuns have a different meaning for Farsiwan. I don't think Shiite Tajiks call themselves Farsiwan.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Farsiwan literally means Persian ......where as farsi zaban means Persian speaker ......so Farsizaban can mean a Pashtun that speaks Farsi or any other Persian speaker ...but Farsiwan for sure means Persian

[waccaskhan]

Aspa....... as in horse?

Yousafzais are referred to "Aspasii" and "Isapsai" in historical accounts. So it seems as they may be horsemen and with later conversion to Islam may have changed their name to more Islamized version. However Afghan (I read) is derived from Avagan.

[Sarbani]

Yousafzais are referred to "Aspasii" and "Isapsai" in historical accounts. So it seems as they may be horsemen and with later conversion to Islam may have changed their name to more Islamized version. However Afghan (I read) is derived from Avagan.

Lmao, no. People don't Islamicize their names from a native name to an Arabic one like that. There would have been no reason to add the letter <f> when Arabizing. And what a coincidence that after Arabizing their name, it already had an existing meaning in Arabic :O

There is a clear recorded family tree on this type of stuff. The tribe was named after Yusaf, who was brothers with Mandarr and the son of Omar. It would be more accurate to call the tribe "Omarzai" since the descendants of Mandarr are also considered Yousafzais.

The word "Isapzai/Isapze" is still used mostly. It's just the Pashtun pronunciation of the word since we have no /f/ sound in Pashto. It's similar to some Pashtuns calling Ismail "Smail/Smel".

[Sarbani]

Farsiwan literally means Persian ......where as farsi zaban means Persian speaker ......so Farsizaban can mean a Pashtun that speaks Farsi or any other Persian speaker ...but Farsiwan for sure means Persian

Both mean Persian. Parsiban is just a contraction of "Farsi zaban".

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Both mean Persian. Parsiban is just a contraction of "Farsi zaban".

I always understood the words differently since they're used distinctively. Even we refer to Iranian persians as Farsiwan. Where as Pashtuns we know who can't speak Pashto, we call Farsi-zuban. I dunno, it maybe something subtle I didn't notice?

[Sarbani]

I always understood the words differently since they're used distinctively. Even we refer to Iranian persians as Farsiwan. Where as Pashtuns we know who can't speak Pashto, we call Farsi-zuban. I dunno, it maybe something subtle I didn't notice?

My family just says "Parsiban" to refer to Persians. I don't recall us using "Farsi-zuban". I feel like that is a new thing since the /f/ sound doesn't exist in Pashto and the -ban suffix clearly indicates it is a contraction. It's possible in the past that we referred to Persians as "Parsi", but then we used the word Persian-speaker ("Parsi-zuban") to refer to both Persians and Persian-speakers and then the general word for Persians became "Parsiban". "Faris-zuban" is probably a modern term invented to distinguish the two for convenience.