origin of pashtunised kasabgars

[gadoonwal]

I have great respect for all pashtu speakers kasabgars.This thread is to discuss the origin of kasabagars.Kindly stick to the topic.

In pashtunkhwa we use the word ,,kasabgar,,kasbi,naray zaat,khoshi,ghobani and also kotanay in southren part.
I do,nt know what they call in afghanistan.
kASABAGARS are jolagan,chumyaran,zargaran,daman,parachgan,nandapa n,tarkanan,awanan,kulalan and many more names.
These people are pashtunised and have no tribal or racail link to pashtuns.
They serve the pashtuns and participate in socail and cultural events.
For example many of these show biz women and men are kasabgars.
They are mostly dark skin,short and skiny type people.
Sometime they do things which bring shame for pashtuns too such as daman group.
Somewhere i read they were brought by pashtuns from india.
No doubt by origin kasabagrs are indains not pashtuns by any mean.
However many of them live like pashtuns and follow pakhtunwali.
The pashtuns do,nt marry them.
The kasabagars are in good number in swat,malakand,dir,plain area of peshawar valley,mardan etc.
In other parts you will find a minor papulation of them serving in the villages.
They also made good contribution to pashtun society.
They are calm and cool people.
They are belong to different groups some of them do cheap things too and bring shame for pakhtuns cus they speak the language.
Most of them hardworking people.
Today many of them educated and living good life.
I remember there was one chumyar in our class and everyone was racist to him and call him bad names.Finally his family moved to the city and there he become engineer.I still feel sorry for him cus as a child you do,nt know many things.
The abdalis also brought many of them as a slaves from india.
They are not the native people of the region .
They do,nt have language.They speak pakhtu.
There are some pashtu writers and poet from kasabgar origin.
so what is your view about kasabayans?

[Smarty]

One theory is that they were once respectable "pashtuns", got low status and caste for choosing a profession rather than going for wars with other men....that profession passed on to their future generations...as they were not warriors, didnt spill their blood so they were not given any lands in the conquered territory.
Contrary to your claim, they actually look exactly same like the tribesmen among whom they are living. And i am not talking about gujjars, paracha , awans etc who have have definite identity and history of origin, and are distinguished from pashtuns as they have different ethnicities but live among pakhtuns in certain areas.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Having a special caste for people is typical hindu culture. Islam was established in Afghanistan 1400 years ago. Sadly some of us still practice hinduism.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

but its not like hindu caste system its just a community like any other

Do Zazi of Baak, Zazi Maidan & Aruyb marry dark skinned musicians and hair dressers? No? Why? Because Gul Zaman's tribe is considered inferior.

Likewise, people don't marry cooks and people of other professions simply because farmers and herdsmen consider shop keepers and laborers as inferior in pashtun culture.

This in essence is hindu culture.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Would you let your daughter marry a musician or hair dresser? Its about profession not caste if there is a doctor from their tribe then they will probably be allowed to marry him but another thing is that we don't like amrriage outside of our tribe, especially for womens.

The question is, why is it that a specific tribe is limited to such jobs alone?

Would the broader community allow them to practice other jobs, i am sure they would be able to integrate and become normal parts of the community.

I don't mind marrying my daughter to a hairdresser as long as he is a good Muslim but not to a musician because music is haram.

[gadoonwal]

One theory is that they were once respectable "pashtuns", got low status and caste for choosing a profession rather than going for wars with other men....that profession passed on to their future generations...as they were not warriors, didnt spill their blood so they were not given any lands in the conquered territory.
Contrary to your claim, they actually look exactly same like the tribesmen among whom they are living. And i am not talking about gujjars, paracha , awans etc who have have definite identity and history of origin, and are distinguished from pashtuns as they have different ethnicities but live among pakhtuns in certain areas.

How can the be pakhtuns when they have no tribal link to pakhtuns?
Not all of them look like pakhtuns.Some of them yes but not all.
Gujars and kohistanis are different people.They are living in their own world.They are not part of kasabagars.
When they speak they sound different then others.
LIKE I SAID THEY ARE NOT PAKHTUNS BY ANY MEAN.
The daman group are doing cheap things too.
Most of them are hardworking people no doubt.

[gadoonwal]

Zarsanga singer is also one of them, they are Punjabi origin but they are more Pakhtun than many people on this forum will ever be.

zarsanga is gypsy woman.
she wear pakhtun cultural dress and present pashtuns in much better way then many pakhtuns.
pashtun did nothing for this great women.she is very poor.

[gadoonwal]

Having a special caste for people is typical hindu culture. Islam was established in Afghanistan 1400 years ago. Sadly some of us still practice hinduism.

This got nothing to do with caste system.
This is to know the origin of these people.
You claim to be great wahabi muslim so will you marry a dama-kasabgara?
or anyone of your family marry barbar?
pointing fingers on other is so easy but when it come to your door then ?
we will see your muslim spirists and equality if you do so.

[Smarty]

How can the be pakhtuns when they have no tribal link to pakhtuns?
Not all of them look like pakhtuns.Some of them yes but not all.
Gujars and kohistanis are different people.They are living in their own world.They are not part of kasabagars.
When they speak they sound different then others.
LIKE I SAID THEY ARE NOT PAKHTUNS BY ANY MEAN.
The daman group are doing cheap things too.
Most of them are hardworking people no doubt.

My undestanding is that pashtun/afghan is name of social status, the land owners who upheld a honour code i.e pashtunwali. These low-castes in my opinion are the ones who were shunned by their tribes for beghairati, not following any honour code etc...e.g those pashtuns who chose damtob were declared non-pashtuns due to their profession. Look at gul panra, nazia iqbal etc, they might be racially pashtuns...in my opinion only race was not enough, pashtunwali was defining factor. And let me say it again, i am not talking about settlers from india.
Another theory is that they are pashtunized natives who got conquered by afghan tribes from west.

[abassinafghan]

The question is, why is it that a specific tribe is limited to such jobs alone?

Would the broader community allow them to practice other jobs, i am sure they would be able to integrate and become normal parts of the community.

I don't mind marrying my daughter to a hairdresser as long as he is a good Muslim but not to a musician because music is haram.

once a dam always a dam

[gadoonwal]

My undestanding is that pashtun/afghan is name of social status, the land owners who upheld a honour code i.e pashtunwali. These low-castes in my opinion are the ones who were shunned by their tribes for beghairati, not following any honour code etc...e.g those pashtuns who chose damtob were declared non-pashtuns due to their profession. Look at gul panra, nazia iqbal etc, they might be racially pashtuns...in my opinion only race was not enough, pashtunwali was defining factor. And let me say it again, i am not talking about settlers from india.
Another theory is that they are pashtunized natives who got conquered by afghan tribes from west.

bs,you better stay away from pakhtun issues.
you admitted that you are kasabgar.
kasabgars are hindu/indains and not Pashtun by any mean.
They are doing cheap things and bring shame for Pashtuns.
They are brought by Pashtuns from india as a slaves.
nazo dama and your other casuns can not be Pashtuns.Dum and Pashtuns are like zmaka aw asman.You are not pakhtun so do,nt creat your own history.
The mujra culture which is spread from swat is another example of kasbagrs and their cheap way of life.For the cheap culture of swatains the geratmand pashtana of pekhawar get blamed.
a Pashtuns is the one who is belong to Pashtun tribe.
A sindi can come to pekhawar and learn Pashtu so will that make him pakhtun.
I created this thread to make it clear that those doing cheap things in the name of Pashtuns are not pakhtun by race.
avt and the other duman shakhelan are indains not Pashtuns.

[Smarty]

bs,you better stay away from pakhtun issues.
you admitted that you are kasabgar.
kasabgars are hindu/indains and not Pashtun by any mean.
They are doing cheap things and bring shame for Pashtuns.
They are brought by Pashtuns from india as a slaves.
nazo dama and your other casuns can not be Pashtuns.Dum and Pashtuns are like zmaka aw asman.You are not pakhtun so do,nt creat your own history.
The mujra culture which is spread from swat is another example of kasbagrs and their cheap way of life.For the cheap culture of swatains the geratmand pashtana of pekhawar get blamed.
a Pashtuns is the one who is belong to Pashtun tribe.
A sindi can come to pekhawar and learn Pashtu so will that make him pakhtun.
I created this thread to make it clear that those doing cheap things in the name of Pashtuns are not pakhtun by race.
avt and the other duman shakhelan are indains not Pashtuns.

Daman are present in swat as well as in your gadoon area. Discussing their origin is a useless topic, after 1857 war even mughal princesses ended up as prostitutes.
Yousafzais have custom of selling their women for cash, so is the case with gadoon tribe. A wahabi hindostani syed ahmad bareilvi asked yousafzais, utmanzais and gadoons to leave this custom of selling daughters....on this your tribe and yousafzais rebelled against syed ahmad and his hindostani followers.
Please do jihad against this bad custom in your tribe, be positive.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

This got nothing to do with caste system.
This is to know the origin of these people.
You claim to be great wahabi muslim so will you marry a dama-kasabgara?
or anyone of your family marry barbar?
pointing fingers on other is so easy but when it come to your door then ?
we will see your muslim spirists and equality if you do so.

You seem to have a problem reading.

Didn't I already say that I would marry my daughter to a hair dresser if he is good Muslim but not a musician because music is haram?

The thing is, I don't care to what ethnicity or caste someone belongs. This is what I have accepted as a Muslim. Only thing that matters is if a person practices Islam or not.

This distinguishes us from Hindus and kafirs and nationalists. We are suppose to care about religion first and foremost.

[gadoonwal]

Daman are present in swat as well as in your gadoon area. Discussing their origin is a useless topic, after 1857 war even mughal princesses ended up as prostitutes.
Yousafzais have custom of selling their women for cash, so is the case with gadoon tribe. A wahabi hindostani syed ahmad bareilvi asked yousafzais, utmanzais and gadoons to leave this custom of selling daughters....on this your tribe and yousafzais rebelled against syed ahmad and his hindostani followers.
Please do jihad against this bad custom in your tribe, be positive.

wallah if you say such bs in real you would,nt go alive home.gadoonwals are known for pashtunwali and hospetality.They do,nt even marry outside their khails.No daman living here.you are just a dancing boy of bachabazi culture .If you have gerat then why not give your village name etc then we will see who is real and who is not.Go for DNA and i gurantee you you will come with some hindu blood of katani/kasabgar.
the gadoon people are proud and geratmand.In our 350 years old history since our migration from motherland not a single case happen in my area.ASk those yousufzai pashtuns to tell you our reality.
Yousufzzais of mardan,swabi,tor ghar,buner never sell daughters.They are the most patriotic.educated and naran pashtana.
Because of them pashtun nationalism is alive.
Most writers are from the above area.
BUt i agree on the swatian yousufzais,they do.I am still not convince they could be yousufzaiz.Most of them are pashtunised.
But there again not all of them.Many swatains are respected and honourable pashtuns like others but culturaly they are more open then others pashtuns.

A derawal seraki was telling me that they use to buy marwat girls before but now they stop selling them cus of mulaism there.
i could,nt belive it but later on a waziri told me that some of them still do it.Marwats is mix race of marwats and kotanyans .They use to wear lung like punjabis before but now they are turning back to pashtun dress.
Most marwatan i find very patriotic pakis and have anti-pashtun views on nationalism.
salim saifullah was strongly against the renaming of pashtunkhwa and was supporting hazariwals.
So we have bad apples everywhere but in some areas more.

Thanks to the peshawar valley pashtuns for keeping pashtun nationalism alive,otherwise many will end up like those kotanyans in laki wearing lung claiming to be pashtuns.
A jat punjabi kotanay can never be pashtun.

[gadoonwal]

You seem to have a problem reading.

Didn't I already say that I would marry my daughter to a hair dresser if he is good Muslim but not a musician because music is haram?

The thing is, I don't care to what ethnicity or caste someone belongs. This is what I have accepted as a Muslim. Only thing that matters is if a person practices Islam or not.

This distinguishes us from Hindus and kafirs and nationalists. We are suppose to care about religion first and foremost.

ok saiba
i respect your view but i disagree with you on that point.