Pashtuns are Yeptalites, Kushans, Scythians?

[Aryana]

Once again nobody cares about your opinion or your guesses. You need to back up your claims with solid evidences and facts. Can you please share some reliable sources about Pashto being the legitimate descendent of Bactrian language? You can not. There are some pretty obvious similarities but that does not mean that they are the same thing.

Listen I know for you Pashtuns must be kinda awful that for most of the people in the region Pashto is an useless tribal language for caveman people and you need to praise it by making a glorious lineage out of it, but the harsh truth is that Pashto has nothing to do with Bactrian. Completely different languages. Whether you like it or not Pashtuns are not Bactrians.

Use your own pathetic logic and try to connect Tajiks with real Persians. You will find out Iranians forced their language on you, and your Mongol fathers raped your mothers. This is why your people are Chinky-looking Farsi speakers. You do know that Farsi isn't the true mother tongue of Tajiks?

Just come to the West and look at your farsiwan bretheren, they forget their culture almost immediately.

Response to your other comments: Pashto is useless? Pashto is the native language of Afghanistan. Farsi was imposed on you Tajiks by the Iranians. You're people are holding onto your culture so weakly that when the Russians came, Tajiks started using the Cyrillic alphabet. Not only that, your people are now trying to have an equal footing in Persian culture as the Persians themselves. You should know that Tajiks are just Farsi-speaking Mongoloids, not Persian.

[Sarbani]

Brother you are guessing all the time. Facts. Evidences. Proofs. Its the only valid things when it comes to science and history.

May I know why Pashtun nationalist want so badly to be related with Bactrians? I know Bactria got probably the richest and most interesting history in the region so everyone wants to have a small piece of it but sometimes you guys go very far. Just saying.

We don't want to be related with them "so badly". The theory of Bactrians being the ancestors of Pashtuns isn't that far-fetched because they are neighboring fellow East Iranians, their language hasn't been properly classified yet, and Bactrian was historically the most spoken East Iranian language in Afghanistan.

In fact, we don't know of any East Iranian languages that were spoken in Afghanistan other than Bactrian (except for Scythian).

[Aryana]

Scythian is classified as north east Iranian and Pashto is classified as south east Iranian. They have been established as different. The Ossetian language in the Caucasus is the only language that is directly descended from Scythian. The next closest related language to Scythian is Sogdian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashto

"Pashto belongs to the Northeastern Iranian group of the Indo-Iranian branch."
There seems to be an argument over whether Pashto is North-Eastern or South-Eastern. There shouldn't be an ignoring of this fact, that Pashto is similar to the Scythian language. I'm pretty sure that there is a Pashtun tribe called Sakzai (which I think translates to "son if Sakas").

[Firdousi]

Arya/Aria is a term used by all Indo-Iranians, it was never used to refer to a specific ethnicity. This is common knowledge, I only posted the Wiki link just in case.

Anyways, here's another link:

Hmm your link just says "Bactrian Arya".

[Firdousi]

We don't want to be related with them "so badly". The theory of Bactrians being the ancestors of Pashtuns isn't that far-fetched because they are neighboring fellow East Iranians, their language hasn't been properly classified yet, and Bactrian was historically the most spoken East Iranian language in Afghanistan.

In fact, we don't know of any East Iranian languages that were spoken in Afghanistan other than Bactrian (except for Scythian).

Its far-fetched. Pashtuns are a mix several ethnic groups just like we "Tajiks". Yeah some Pashtuns might be originally Bactrians but that does not mean you all are Bactrians, dude. Only Tajiks specially those living in northern areas can claim to be the legitimate descendants of Bactria.

[Firdousi]

Use your own pathetic logic and try to connect Tajiks with real Persians. You will find out Iranians forced their language on you, and your Mongol fathers raped your mothers. This is why your people are Chinky-looking Farsi speakers. You do know that Farsi isn't the true mother tongue of Tajiks?

Just come to the West and look at your farsiwan bretheren, they forget their culture almost immediately.

Response to your other comments: Pashto is useless? Pashto is the native language of Afghanistan. Farsi was imposed on you Tajiks by the Iranians. You're people are holding onto your culture so weakly that when the Russians came, Tajiks started using the Cyrillic alphabet. Not only that, your people are now trying to have an equal footing in Persian culture as the Persians themselves. You should know that Tajiks are just Farsi-speaking Mongoloids, not Persian.

Come on calm down. There is no need to use such abusive language. We are talking here. Keep it civil bro.

Tajiks are a mix of several Iranic tribes mainly Bactrians, Soghdians, Parthians and Persians. We have also some Turkic roots as well.There was a huge Persian migration into Khorasan after the Arab arrival.

Farsi is the true language of "Tajiks". Thanks to us Persian culture and Persian language survived. Thanks to our Khorasani ancestors Rudaki, Dqiqi, Ferdowsi, Attar, Mawlana, Barmakids and so on. I speak Farsi. So do my parents and grand-parents. And as far as I know most of Afghans and Heratis speak Farsi too. Why shouldn't I consider it my language? I love Farsi. Its the most beautiful language in the world. Remember what our Samanian ancestors said once:

"We are Persians and this is Persian land".

I just wonder where were Pashtuns back then lol

BTW Tajiks in the West are far more educated than Pashtuns. Most of Pashtuns went to Pakistan and now they have brought nothing but barbaric Pakistani terrorism and cricket. Meanwhile most of the educated Afghan diaspora in Europe are Persianspeakers. Just go to Germany or Holland and you will see.

[Sarbani]

Its far-fetched. Pashtuns are a mix several ethnic groups just like we "Tajiks". Yeah some Pashtuns might be originally Bactrians but that does not mean you all are Bactrians, dude. Only Tajiks specially those living in northern areas can claim to be the legitimate descendants of Bactria.

The Kushan Empire, Hephthalite Empire, and Greco-Bactrian Kingdom all had Bactrian as an official language and covered practically all lands where Pashtuns live today:

Kushan Empire:



Hephthalite Empire:



Greco-Bactrian Kingdom:



ALL fully cover modern Pashtun lands.

*****

Since you are so confident that Pashtuns have absolutely nothing to do with Bactrians, then what language did the Paktyans (people of Arachosia) speak?

[Firdousi]

Use your own pathetic logic and try to connect Tajiks with real Persians. You will find out Iranians forced their language on you, and your Mongol fathers raped your mothers. This is why your people are Chinky-looking Farsi speakers. You do know that Farsi isn't the true mother tongue of Tajiks?

Just come to the West and look at your farsiwan bretheren, they forget their culture almost immediately.

Response to your other comments: Pashto is useless? Pashto is the native language of Afghanistan. Farsi was imposed on you Tajiks by the Iranians. You're people are holding onto your culture so weakly that when the Russians came, Tajiks started using the Cyrillic alphabet. Not only that, your people are now trying to have an equal footing in Persian culture as the Persians themselves. You should know that Tajiks are just Farsi-speaking Mongoloids, not Persian.

Come on bro lets be honest here: when Ghani, an ethnic Pashtun, and Dostum, an ethnic Uzbek, meet up.. what language do you think they speak in order to understand each other? No need to respond LMAO

[Firdousi]

The Kushan Empire, Hephthalite Empire, and Greco-Bactrian Kingdom all had Bactrian as an official language and covered practically all lands where Pashtuns live today:

Kushan Empire:



Hephthalite Empire:



Greco-Bactrian Kingdom:



ALL fully cover modern Pashtun lands.

*****

Since you are so confident that Pashtuns have absolutely nothing to do with Bactrians, then what language did the Paktyans (people of Arachosia) speak?

So you were invaded by Bactrians. So were Hindus and we don't consider them as Bactrians, do we?

I don't know about the language of Arachosian people. Thats why I won't make stuff up. You should take my example.

[Sarbani]

So you were invaded by Bactrians. So were Hindus and we don't consider them as Bactrians, do we?

I don't know about the language of Arachosian people. Thats why I won't make stuff up. You should take my example.

We already know enough about Hindus/Indics to disprove any notions they could have been Bactrian. They weren't even East Iranian to start off.

I didn't make anything up, I was speculating. Remember one of my earlier posts, I said IF Paktyans were a subgroup of Bactrians, then Bactrians are our ancestors. "IF" means it was just speculation, not a fact.

[Afghanfootball]

The counter argument to Paktyans (Arachosians) being Bactrian is that Bactria and Arachosia existed as separate provinces of the Achaemenid Empire. However; Gedrosia, Carmania, Susiana, etc. were all known to be ethnic Persian majority but existed as separated provinces from Persia proper. The same could have been the case with Bactria, Aria, and Arachosia. After all, Arachosia is named after a river and the people living in Arachosia were called Paktyan as their ethnic identity as opposed to Arachosian. This could also explain how all East Iranic speakers from Peshawar all the way to Kandahar call themselves one name (Pashtun). In between the Pamiri-speaking Badakhshan and Pashtun-speaking areas, there is a gap of Persian speakers. These Persian speakers disrupted the natural East Iranic dialect continuum. I wonder if before the Persianization of north Afghanistan, the Pamiris' ancestors called themselves a derivative of the term "Pashtun". The names they go by now (Yazgulamu, Shughni, Sarikoli, Ishkashimi, etc.) seem to tribal identities. The lands they live in also used to be historically considered part of Bactria.

I've only considered the theory that Paktyans may have been a subgroup of Bactrians when I realized that province doesn't equal ethnicity (as I stated above) and that there is no information on a "Arachosian/Paktyan language" anywhere on the Internet. Also, the only East Iranic language (excluding Scythian/Saka) spoken by empires in Loy Afghanistan (Kushans, Hephthalites, etc.) were all Bactrian speaking.

Btw, Bactria was also called "Pakhlo" before (at least according to the Wiki page of Hephthalites). Pakhlo, Balkh, Takhar, Tocharia (Tokharia), and Bactria all have the same etymological root. The extinct centum language speaking people of the Tarim Basin who's language is called Tocharian today are completely unrelated to the real Tocharians who are now known to be Bactrians. The reason the extinct Tarim Basin people are called Tocharian is because of an initial confusion by linguists.

Yeah until recently i too equated Bactrian, Arachosian, Paropamisian etc only with ethnicity. Pactyans have only been mentioned to be living in kaspatyrus which is equated with either Kabul or Kashmir and Armenia. However Ptolemey mentions a group called Parsyetae who lived in northern Arachosia and the Paropamisus. Both groups are connected by historians to todays Pashtuns and it seems very likely.

My own hypothesis on this is that the Pactyans/Parsyetae were originally from Paktra (Bactria) but migrated southward (and settled in the southern hindukush. The reason they would have migrated south was to participate in the battle of the ten kings. A group called Pakhta were mentioned to have participated and their kings name Turvayana which translates to Tura (sword) and wahuni (wielder) or wielder of the sword.

On Pamiris something interesting to note is Badakhshan was called Ab-bar-Gan in summerian and a group Aghyan were mentioned to live there.

[Afghanfootball]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashto

"Pashto belongs to the Northeastern Iranian group of the Indo-Iranian branch."
There seems to be an argument over whether Pashto is North-Eastern or South-Eastern. There shouldn't be an ignoring of this fact, that Pashto is similar to the Scythian language. I'm pretty sure that there is a Pashtun tribe called Sakzai (which I think translates to "son if Sakas").

article on Sakzai:
Seistan: Cradle of Ancient Culture

Abdul Hai Habibi

Thousands of years ago a group of people came to the land of the great and mighty southern rivers of present day Seistan. These people were the Saks, whose progeny, under the name of Sakzai, still live along the banks of the Helmand River.
The Saks were a brave and robust people. The land where they settled came to be known as Sakistan which was Arabized as Sajistan and later it became Seistan. Arab conquerors called the people of Seistan Sajzi, which is the Arabized form of Sakzai. The Sakzai still live in this area, as far as the western parts of Kandahar and Bost. They are a tall and lanky people with a tanned complexion and speak the Pashto language. They are considered to be a part of the great Durrani tribe. The Sakzai built mighty civilizations and large cities and formed an effective system of government in this land.
The Seistan wetland covers an area of about 150,000 square miles into which four rivers, the Helmand, Khash Rud, Farah Rud and Harut Rud empty. To the south of this wetland lies the Gaud-e Zerreh, another marshy wetland. The desert in between covers an area of roughly 150 by 100 miles. The Farah Rud composed the northern boundary of this parcel of land where Peshawaran and Takht-e Rustam are located. Dasht-e Zerreh forms the southern boundary of this area. Remnants of ancient civilizations are evident in every direction of this vast land. Thousands of mounds and remains of ancient fortresses are seen here that have been destroyed by weathering turning this great civilization into an abode of insects and reptiles. Millions of ancient relics are buried under the rubble of the great cities of Seistan. It is not clear what led to the destruction of these cities. The area with hundreds of thousands inhabitants was one of the most important center of civilization in Asia. Zaranj, the major city of Sakistan, rivaled with Baghdad at the time. No one now lives in ancient Zaranj and the area has turned into a jungle of reeds.
Sakistan was the home of great heroes, kings, scholars and establishers of new religions. Under the rubble of each fallen wall countless cultural relics are hidden. The legendary heroes, Rustam and Yakub were raised in this land. Sajistanians, the inhabitants of this land, played a major role in the development of Islamic sciences and were the founders of the respected Seistan religion. Early Dari (Persian) poets recited their poetry in the court of Yakub Safari in Zaranj and an important part of the odes of Shahnama (Book of Kings) is composed from the fables of Seistan. The most ancient Persian book of prose, Keshf-al-Majoob, was written with Seistani penmanship. Members of the social group of this land, known as Ayaran, formed political and social groups and they gave rise to leaders such as Yakub and Omar, whose fame spread as far as Baghdad and Damascus.
Unfortunately, this cradle of civilization was completely obliterated. Its population was decimated by the Mongol hordes to the extent that when the Englishman, Sir Goldsmith, visited the area in 1872 he reported there were only 45,000 people residing in this vast stretch of land. Thirty years later while Sir MacMohan was delineating the Afghan-Iranian border, according to Tate, the total population of the area was 161,000 people only. (Tate, The Baluchistan Borders).

[Firdousi]

Yeah until recently i too equated Bactrian, Arachosian, Paropamisian etc only with ethnicity. Pactyans have only been mentioned to be living in kaspatyrus which is equated with either Kabul or Kashmir and Armenia. However Ptolemey mentions a group called Parsyetae who lived in northern Arachosia and the Paropamisus. Both groups are connected by historians to todays Pashtuns and it seems very likely.

My own hypothesis on this is that the Pactyans/Parsyetae were originally from Paktra (Bactria) but migrated southward (and settled in the southern hindukush. The reason they would have migrated south was to participate in the battle of the ten kings. A group called Pakhta were mentioned to have participated and their kings name Turvayana which translates to Tura (sword) and wahuni (wielder) or wielder of the sword.

On Pamiris something interesting to note is Badakhshan was called Ab-bar-Gan in summerian and a group Aghyan were mentioned to live there.

No wonder this guy is a fan of Abdul Hai Habibi lol

[Firdousi]

We already know enough about Hindus/Indics to disprove any notions they could have been Bactrian. They weren't even East Iranian to start off.

I didn't make anything up, I was speculating. Remember one of my earlier posts, I said IF Paktyans were a subgroup of Bactrians, then Bactrians are our ancestors. "IF" means it was just speculation, not a fact.

Dude, you guys are not speculating. You are making bold claims.

[Aryana]

Come on calm down. There is no need to use such abusive language. We are talking here. Keep it civil bro.

Tajiks are a mix of several Iranic tribes mainly Bactrians, Soghdians, Parthians and Persians. We have also some Turkic roots as well.There was a huge Persian migration into Khorasan after the Arab arrival.

Farsi is the true language of "Tajiks". Thanks to us Persian culture and Persian language survived. Thanks to our Khorasani ancestors Rudaki, Dqiqi, Ferdowsi, Attar, Mawlana, Barmakids and so on. I speak Farsi. So do my parents and grand-parents. And as far as I know most of Afghans and Heratis speak Farsi too. Why shouldn't I consider it my language? I love Farsi. Its the most beautiful language in the world. Remember what our Samanian ancestors said once:

"We are Persians and this is Persian land".

I just wonder where were Pashtuns back then lol

BTW Tajiks in the West are far more educated than Pashtuns. Most of Pashtuns went to Pakistan and now they have brought nothing but barbaric Pakistani terrorism and cricket. Meanwhile most of the educated Afghan diaspora in Europe are Persianspeakers. Just go to Germany or Holland and you will see.

So now you're claiming that Tajiks have Bactrian and Persian ancestry. The real Persians treat you little better than slaves, Farsi was imposed on you people. I actually don't hate Tajiks, I feel sorry for them. They have lost their culture and language, so they try to adopt another one and yet they fail at it. Go to Iran and look at how they will you as a """"""""Persian"""""""""" brother.