Marrying a Hazara

[ScimitarXEdge]

i've never seen any evidence of iran having hegemonic intent. is there any proof of this or is it just anti-iran propaganda? like that map?
the saudi arabians, the israelis and americans are all anti iran, so who is saying these things?

Iran itself may not have hegemonic intent, but Persian NATIONALISTS, definitely have it.

[Daniel]

Where as Muslim Arabs allowed us to be our ethnicity and have our own distinct identity and at least had a doctrine which viewed all ethnicities as having an equal playing field

Lol so was it Ummayads alone that Arabized Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc. Your Arabs destroyed entire languages and cultures, although the Persians did that too.

Islam is no religion (i.e. a set of mostly metaphysical doctrines) but a comprehensive guideline for all domains of human living so Islamization is pure cultural/social imperialism. When people give up Islam they may have to give up entire cultures, economic and social practices etc and adopt Mohameds ideas

[Leonine]

Iran itself may not have hegemonic intent, but Persian NATIONALISTS, definitely have it.

it wasnt arabs who overthrew the umayyads...it was abu muslim khorasani! the only good thing the arab invasion brought to the region was Islam...everything else is con

[faye]

Iran itself may not have hegemonic intent, but Persian NATIONALISTS, definitely have it.

how do you know? i can't find any support for this accusation, just that they are interested in changes in iran.

[randolph85]

Lol so was it Ummayads alone that Arabized Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc. Your Arabs destroyed entire languages and cultures, although the Persians did that too.

Islam is no religion (i.e. a set of mostly metaphysical doctrines) but a comprehensive guideline for all domains of human living so Islamization is pure cultural/social imperialism. When people give up Islam they may have to give up entire cultures, economic and social practices etc and adopt Mohameds ideas

yeah, why cant it be more like a sunday morning religion where the rest of the time u are free to de humanize urself. got to love those cookie cutter "metaphysical doctrines", with a hilarious original sin thrown in so we are sinners since babies.

god is not supposed to be an afterthought.

and lol @ arabs destroying cultures.

[retro]

if they were right, why are they the ones who are trying to subjugate everyone else into an ETHNO-centric (greater Persia) and get us to adopt Persian identity which idealizes their ethnicity or any racial doctrine of "Master Race" as what others must adopt. Where as Muslim Arabs allowed us to be our ethnicity and have our own distinct identity and at least had a doctrine which viewed all ethnicities as having an equal playing field

(with the exception of the Ummayads, but they were deposed precisely because they weren't consistent with Islam; and they were deposed by other Arabs who saw their ways as a corruption of Islam)

I'm sorry this tells us the Arab Muslims (not Ethno-Centric Arab Nationalists) are our freinds and Persian-Nationalists are are real enemies, irregardless of whatever ethnic connections we may have with them.

by the way Yazdgird's response is a known forgery invented by Persian Nationalists; furthermore Yazgird a known for being morally perverse and more materialistically indulgent than even the Saudi Shaikhs of today who make a mockery of Islam. There was nothing noble about him.

Any logical human being would side with Muslim Arab over a Persian Nationalist.

Nationalism is merely a position that advocates, national self determnation. Islam isn't about creating some borderless utopia, it's all about controling people.

The Arabs by invading and despoiling Persia are in no small part responsible for turning the Persians into what it is today. Namely a repressive, twisted culture, that engages in self-flagellation and hangs it's rape victims.

Why do you think that so many Persians, Berbers, Egyptians, East African and even many Turks have been Arabized? Do you really think that Arabs are above committing injustices towards other peoples or engaging in imperialism?

Your error is that you have misplaced your national and cultural loyalties in favour of an abstract ideal of Sunni pan-Islamic nationhood, that in reality doesn't really exist and never will.

Afghanistan has a literacy rate of 28.1% and is basically a failed state at this point. Whilst the Arabs are sitting on a war chest of $3 trillion in funds. Where excactly is this mythical Arab egalitarianism of yours?

[randolph85]

Nationalism is merely a position that advocates, national self determnation. Islam isn't about creating some borderless utopia, it's all about controling people.

The Arabs by invading and despoiling Persia are in no small part responsible for turning the Persians into what it is today. Namely a repressive, twisted culture, that engages in self-flagellation and hangs it's rape victims.

Why do you think that so many Persians, Berbers, Egyptians, East African and even many Turks have been Arabized? Do you really think that Arabs are above committing injustices towards other peoples or engaging in imperialism?

Your error is that you have misplaced your national and cultural loyalties in favour of an abstract ideal of Sunni pan-Islamic nationhood, that in reality doesn't really exist and never will.

Afghanistan has a literacy rate of 28.1% and is basically a failed state at this point. Whilst the Arabs are sitting on a war chest of $3 trillion in funds. Where excactly is this mythical Arab egalitarianism of yours?

if that is ur sole definition of nationalism, then fascism could be interchangeable with that. and how is islam about controlling people? i have never heard of a controlling ideology that says believing in such ideology is non compulsory. and i love how islam being controlling is talked about as if it were a man or an institution. there are no catholic churches, vatacins, popes, or holy see's in islam so that stupid assumption is thrown out the window.

the enemies of islam will be happy the day they see women prostitutes openly advertised behind glass like is customary in the "civilized" nations of europe. where men are turned into faggots, the women into cheap spoiled meat, and the idea of a family structure seemingly old fashioned. u can tell the worth of a culture by how they see themselves. i have seen enough of the "green movement" persians in california to understand how low these people are. their men have bumps on their lips thanks to herpes, their women are about as easy as they get + nose jobs. the people who call themselves zoroastrian and wear those ridiculous eagle necklaces.

how is islam arabization when islam itself was against the jahiliyah arab culture of the times before? after 1400 yrs of islamic rule, their languages still exist as well as their rights to distinguish themselves from being arab.

so what does afghanistans economy or literacy rate have to do with anything u were mentioning before? if afghanistans poor position is because of islam, then how do u account for the gulf arabs, the malaysians, the indeonesians or well off empires like the mughals? afghanistans poverty was tolerated and unchanged under non religious rulers such as zahir shah, the same zahir shah that accepted aid from non muslim sources such as the US and the soviet union.

[retro]

if that is ur sole definition of nationalism, then fascism could be interchangeable with that. and how is islam about controlling people? i have never heard of a controlling ideology that says believing in such ideology is non compulsory. and i love how islam being controlling is talked about as if it were a man or an institution. there are no catholic churches, vatacins, popes, or holy see's in islam so that stupid assumption is thrown out the window.

the enemies of islam will be happy the day they see women prostitutes openly advertised behind glass like is customary in the "civilized" nations of europe. where men are turned into faggots, the women into cheap spoiled meat, and the idea of a family structure seemingly old fashioned. u can tell the worth of a culture by how they see themselves. i have seen enough of the "green movement" persians in california to understand how low these people are. their men have bumps on their lips thanks to herpes, their women are about as easy as they get + nose jobs. the people who call themselves zoroastrian and wear those ridiculous eagle necklaces.

how is islam arabization when islam itself was against the jahiliyah arab culture of the times before? after 1400 yrs of islamic rule, their languages still exist as well as their rights to distinguish themselves from being arab.

so what does afghanistans economy or literacy rate have to do with anything u were mentioning before? if afghanistans poor position is because of islam, then how do u account for the gulf arabs, the malaysians, the indeonesians or well off empires like the mughals? afghanistans poverty was tolerated and unchanged under non religious rulers such as zahir shah, the same zahir shah that accepted aid from non muslim sources such as the US and the soviet union.

Afghanistan needs to develop it's domestic energy sector and it needs revenues as the country is in a mess. A lot of Afghans look like they aren't eating properly and have healthcare problems.

You confuse morality with religion and they are not the same thing. The only difference is that in the west everything is on display in plain view. Whilst in Middle East nations, they are far more discrete. However I know that their are certain Western guys, who go to Middle Eastern nations, just to sleep with Arab or North Africa *****s since this is their preference.

[Leonine]

how is islam arabization when islam itself was against the jahiliyah arab culture of the times before? after 1400 yrs of islamic rule, their languages still exist as well as their rights to distinguish themselves from being arab.

you can't say the arabised people's cultures, languages, lineage and traditions have existed as the same after the arab invasion as they were before...

changes after the arab invasion examples:

20%-60% of Persian (dari, farsi) is Arabic words which is now extremely sad and sickening! you cannot even talk colloquially without saying arabic words...

the only pre-Islamic Aryan festival that has survived in Afghanistan is Nawroz..Iran still has Mehragan, Tiraagan, etc..

people's lineages and blood were corrupted...it is so contemptible how so many people in afg, iran, etc.... claim they are sayeds and descendants of various arabs

[ScimitarXEdge]

Lol so was it Ummayads alone that Arabized Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc. Your Arabs destroyed entire languages and cultures, although the Persians did that too.

Islam is no religion (i.e. a set of mostly metaphysical doctrines) but a comprehensive guideline for all domains of human living so Islamization is pure cultural/social imperialism. When people give up Islam they may have to give up entire cultures, economic and social practices etc and adopt Mohameds ideas

This is nothing but complete and utter fallacy. Imperialism by it's intrinsic attributes is exploitative, dysfunctional and disruptive of the natural ecological relationships of the habitat and environment. The Areas that Islam expanded to became enlightened and powerful and had both benefited and helped those societies to grow even according the the respective cultures own ideals.

Persia, Andalusia, the Ottoman Empire, the Ghaznavids, the Abbasids is ample proof of societies vitalized by implementing the Islamic Doctrine and became vital areas of the Islamic World. This was keenly evident during the "Golden Age of Islam". It was so just, that even people who were slaves could amass their own wealth and hold positions of leadership in their society (see Mamluks for more detail). Contrast that with slavery in America where slaves were deemed and treated sub-human. A Slave in Islamic society had more benefits and privileges than Middle or Working class Americans in Modern Times (who are essentially slaves to Banks and Corporations, just under watered down names to keep the masses pacified).

Arabs were already prominent in Syria and Iraq as the Ghassanid and Lakhmids were already there long before Islam and had resided there for centuries.

And Berbers are still the majority of North Africa; so these claims were false and embellished scapegoats.

Now contrast that from European Christian or even Non-Christian/Secular or American conquests in Asia and Africa. Anywhere Europeans or their descendants the Americans, went once viable societies became decimated and destitute, the environment became grossly degraded wide scale (North America was once mostly forest, India didn't have high pollution levels etc etc), sociological dysfunction emerged. Native populations were brought to the brink of extinction (Native Americans, South Americans). Even in the often scrutinized aggressive movements of Islam, Islam liberated. These reflect the intrinsic attributes of Imperialism; i.e. These are what Imperialism truly is.

Imperialism is always negative and detrimental for a society; only something that spreads corruption and dysfunction can be Imperialism; Islam elevated society, thus cannot be imperialism.

Islam is thus against everything imperialism stands for; spreading corruption, immorality and dysfunction.


It's true Islam is not a religion; Islam is consciousness of existence and system of ethics; this liberates people from imperialism, not promoting it

[ScimitarXEdge]

Nationalism is merely a position that advocates, national self determnation. Islam isn't about creating some borderless utopia, it's all about controling people.

The Arabs by invading and despoiling Persia are in no small part responsible for turning the Persians into what it is today. Namely a repressive, twisted culture, that engages in self-flagellation and hangs it's rape victims.

Why do you think that so many Persians, Berbers, Egyptians, East African and even many Turks have been Arabized? Do you really think that Arabs are above committing injustices towards other peoples or engaging in imperialism?

Your error is that you have misplaced your national and cultural loyalties in favour of an abstract ideal of Sunni pan-Islamic nationhood, that in reality doesn't really exist and never will.

Afghanistan has a literacy rate of 28.1% and is basically a failed state at this point. Whilst the Arabs are sitting on a war chest of $3 trillion in funds. Where excactly is this mythical Arab egalitarianism of yours?

Hindsight is 20/20 and apparently you have ignored over 1400 years of history despite that. Islam isn't about creating any sort of utopia, it's about engineering functional society.

so far, none has claimed Arabs are above committing injustices; but all injustice is INSPITE of Isam, not because of it.

If Islam, which you use synonymously with Arabs, since it was Arab Muslims who spread Islam to Iran. Have any part in the current dismal situations in Iran. Then similarly they too have the responsibility for when Al-Farabi and Muslim Scientists of what is now known as Iran were making their discoveries. They too become responsible for making the region a viable region when Europeans were bathing in their own fecal matter to ward off evil spirits.

If Islam is all about controlling people as you say, then it controls people for the better. Control when it benefits everyone's best interests is much superior than infantile standardless culture which works to everyone's detriment. But regardless; All societies Have regulatory principles; these are intrinsically necessary for organizational function. So sure , maybe won't let you ***** out your daughter to make White Europeans happy as you were doing during the Pahlavi days or let you escape life like coward by sipping Shirazi wine, but you'll be much better for it.

I haven't seen any culture of North Africa to Turkey which I can call "Arabized"; each region has a culture and identity distinct from Arabs. Even amongst Arabs themselves their cultures are vastly different. Berbers still exist North Africa, so if people were adopted an Arab identity, it was their choice, NOT compulsion to do so. It's only natural that from intermarriage that hybridization happens. The culture of Shams is vastly different than the culture of Yemen and so on. If you're equating Islam with Arabic identity then your premise is flawed because Arab Christians also exist and the Original Polytheistic Arab culture was expunged by Islam;therefore your red herring argument fails by flawed premise

Whatever problems happen in Iran are because of ignoring Islamic Principles, or mish mashing Islamic principles with ones incompatible with Islam.

The beauty of Islam is that you can be from whatever society or cultural background and be a Muslim; but you can't be a Pashtun and be a Persian. The two would really nullify the other.

Which is why it is more likely to have a Pan Islamic Global Society than a Pan-Persian one. But yet you have no problems endorsingthe more unlikely scenario?

Islam isn't here to create an egalitarian society; it's here to create a just and balanced society. Something Persian Nationalism is intrinsically incapable of doing, even if it were applied "correctly". Islam on the other hand succeeds when applied correctly.
and this is why Islam.

There is more chance of having a fair and just society where "egalitarianism" as you put it would be possible under a genuinely Islamic society; than a Perso-Centric one. We can see how Persians are irreverantly biggoted to even other Indo-Iranian speakers (Baloch, Kurdish, Zazaki etc) than even Persians claim Arabs are to Persians.

[retro]

you can't say the arabised people's cultures, languages, lineage and traditions have existed as the same after the arab invasion as they were before...

changes after the arab invasion examples:

20%-60% of Persian (dari, farsi) is Arabic words which is now extremely sad and sickening! you cannot even talk colloquially without saying arabic words...

the only pre-Islamic Aryan festival that has survived in Afghanistan is Nawroz..Iran still has Mehragan, Tiraagan, etc..

people's lineages and blood were corrupted...it is so contemptible how so many people in afg, iran, etc.... claim they are sayeds and descendants of various arabs

Well Pashto and Farsi both use a Arabic script. However Afgan people have faired far better than Persia.

The problem with Islam is that it often try's to hark back in time to mythical golden age that never in fact was and so Afghanistan starts to resemble 7th century Arabia. Pashtuns need to preserve their own identity, customs and culture. However they also need to live in the modern world.

Not unlike the Europeans in the America's. Arabs are usurpers long and have a History of stealing peoples lands and cultures such as the Egyptians. I don't hate Arabs. However certainly I wouldn't trust them.

In North Aftican only 7 million people are indigenous Berbers and nearly all the rest are Arabized-Berbers.

‪BEAUTY AND PHENOTYPES AMAZIGH RACE IN NORTH AFRICA‬‏ - YouTube

[retro]

If you're equating Islam with Arabic identity then your premise is flawed because Arab Christians also exist and the Original Polytheistic Arab culture was expunged by Islam;therefore your red herring argument fails by flawed premise

Arab Christians like who? The Copts, Assyrians or Lebanese? North African and Near East people aren't Arabs and the entire region was conquered and Arabized to various degrees by Arabs from Arabia.

Islam isn't here to create an egalitarian society; it's here to create a just and balanced society.

Do you think that Afghanistan is a just and balanced society?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Arab Christians like who? The Copts, Assyrians or Lebanese? North African and Near East people aren't Arabs and the entire region was conquered and Arabized to various degrees by Arabs from Arabia.







Do you think that Afghanistan is a just and balanced society?

Arab Christians, and Mosaic Arabs ("Arab Jews") for that matter, predate Arab Muslims, as there were many Arab tribes which adhered to Christianity as early as the 1st century, including Nabateans (who incorporated elements of both Arabs and Arameans), the Ghassanids and the Lakhmids. The latter were of Qahtani origin and spoke Yemeni-Arabic as well as Greek, and who protected the south-eastern frontiers of the Roman and Byzantine Empires in north Arabia.[citation needed]

Afghanistan isn't a just and balanced society; inspite of Islam


Abdali heralded as the founder of Afghanistan, although that is a misnomer; developed a society based on Islamic Unity/cooperation; across ethnicities and even across sects; all under the banner of Islam and implementing Islamic Doctrine.

In essence in reference to your other statement; the Islamic "Utopia" as you branded it. Has existed and can exist once again when it is applied with the right model.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Well Pashto and Farsi both use a Arabic script. However Afgan people have faired far better than Persia.

The problem with Islam is that it often try's to hark back in time to mythical golden age that never in fact was and so Afghanistan starts to resemble 7th century Arabia. Pashtuns need to preserve their own identity, customs and culture. However they also need to live in the modern world.

Not unlike the Europeans in the America's. Arabs are usurpers long and have a History of stealing peoples lands and cultures such as the Egyptians. I don't hate Arabs. However certainly I wouldn't trust them.

In North Aftican only 7 million people are indigenous Berbers and nearly all the rest are Arabized-Berbers.

And more the reason we shouldn't trust you since you're ostensibly lying and are being intellectually dishonest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbers

There are between 30 and 40 million speakers of Berber languages in Africa (see population estimation), principally concentrated in Morocco, Algeria, Mali, Niger, and Libya, and with smaller communities as far east as Egypt and as far south as Burkina Faso.

exposed.