Marriage to non-Pashtuns

[parsiwaan]

Yes, I agree, language is part of a culture. But it's just one part. There are many other parts, such as clothing, food, customs etc.

And I don't think this 'identification' needs to end. Allah has put us in differnt ethnicities and races so we may know each other .. not so that we can bash one another. I refuse to give in to this notion of making everyone identical just so we can be unified and strong. It doesn't work that way. I am not letting go of any part of my beloved and precious heritage just so I can be unified with people.. who are incapable of holding on to their heritage. My heritage is precious and I'm not going to ignore it for any reason. And none of us should, Parsiwaan Jaan. We should embrace who we are. I'm not just Afghan - I am ALL that I listed above.. that is part of who we are.. and it is not our ethnic identity that is keeps us apart, it is the notion of ethnocentrism.

Similar to racism, it's not racist to acknowledge that someone has a different skin color - that's like saying you can't tell the difference between black and white. Racism is treating someone differently because of their race. Same goes for us. Our misery is not because we are different, it is because we treat each other differently because we are different.. and that I agree is wrong. But to solve that, we shouldn't get rid of our differences - because that is our beauty - we should change our behavior and how we treat one another

I have nothing against people loving and valuing their heritage unfortunately Afghanistan the heritage actually defines people...this is exactly why the rule of central government has never been really established in Afghanistan…even in golden days of Sardar e Shayed M Doud or late Zahir shah the gov derived its legitimacy from the tribal elders whom they bribed…so in order to have a nation, in order to create a soverign single terroritorial unit…we must be more royal to our nation and country then our tribes or heritage…. in the same process other nation like Japan went throw.. by destroying the tribal and regional identity and forcing people to think and act as Japanese first and from most.

[parsiwaan]

Parsiwaan, So do you believe all Afghans in just being Afghan and you basically turn down ethnic groups?

Yes lady....no pashton, no tajik, no hazara, no Uzbak just AFGHAN!!!

[parsiwaan]

Qrratugai,
Pakhtun females have BOYFRIENDS and they are Muslim, Yet they are modest? Yet you consider them Pakhtun?

When was the inception of such mordagowey considered to be part of our culture? The minute dating and stuff begins, You can stop right there from the "I am traditional Pashtana"

ahhaah wt if guys do that? But no for guys they are De Naar Bachia?

[parsiwaan]

First of all i apology to person who started this thread... for some reason the topic of this thread had changed... anyways to answer your question... i do not mind if the girl i marry is pashton or anything... my family choice is as long as they are Afghan... and they do consider Pashtonistani Pashton as Afghan...so even if the girl is from Pashtonistan..its all good... i don't mind. Or better to keep national unity i will marry one of each ethnic group? something to think about hahahah lol

[parsiwaan]

But what about our Afghan brothers in Pakistan, We have nearly 30million of them. Do you consider them as Afghan?

If they consider themselves Afghan and are nationalist yes... all those religious type and **** type hell NO!

[Pukhtoon007]

You jump on ppl family and you talk about ghirat? shame on you...Kushal khan khatak knew you people really well.

ANOTHER trait of a tajik deflect all points and focus on wat he wants to hear. the reason i attacked ur family was coz u attackted pukhtoons n to me i dnt see tribes i see one languge one culture and one race. maybe other members let u get away with a huge insult to pukhtuns by saying they sell their moms but im not gna let u get away with it.so answer my questions dnt u dare deflect them.

[parsiwaan]

ANOTHER trait of a tajik deflect all points and focus on wat he wants to hear. the reason i attacked ur family was coz u attackted pukhtoons n to me i dnt see tribes i see one languge one culture and one race. maybe other members let u get away with a huge insult to pukhtuns by saying they sell their moms but im not gna let u get away with it.so answer my questions dnt u dare deflect them.

ahahah screw u and screw tajiks...how is that? but then u might like it...so forget u...im just afraid if I push u more u might end up committing suicide...so i will have mercy on u... also check with your elders about that story...i grantee they will attest to it.

[parsiwaan]

What do you mean by religious types?

kako jaan u ask so much question... saar mo ra dard shoo(how u say give me headche in pashto? lol)

[Roshina]

kako jaan u ask so much question... saar mo ra dard shoo(how u say give me headche in pashto? lol)

"You give me a headache" = "Pa sar de raala darr ko!"

Sorry to hear that. Khair, it happens, wrora!

[Roshina]

Qrratugai,
Pakhtun females have BOYFRIENDS and they are Muslim, Yet they are modest?

If you read my post, it said that everyone defines modesty differently. I knew what the response would be if I gave my personal thoughts regarding the behavior of that type of girls, so I didn't share that. However, they consider themselves modest, and it doesn't matter what you and I think of modesty. Our opinion is not gonna make them think, "Oh man! Okay, if YOU think it's immodest, then I'll stop."

Yet you consider them Pakhtun?

People sometimes do things that are out of their norms. That doens't mean we're not a part of the ethnic group anymore. Just because they do things that you don't approve of doesn't deny them their ethnic identity. They might not be Pukhtun by culture in a particular aspect of the culture, but they remain Pukhtun by blood, by name, by identity whether we like it or not.

[Baidariwal]

lol some crazy people here i tell ya ... if parsiwan doesn't wanna be called pashtun, then let her be wai, zor kho nadai.

as for Aseer Jan and Swat's question ... have boyfriend is not modest and not pukhtoon like ... i think we can all agree to that, but then again you are forcing parsiwan to accept she is pashtun because his dad is pashtoon, and then say another pashtana (with a pashtun dad) is not really pashtana because she has boyfriend

so makeup your mind about the definition of pashtun ... is it someone who's father is pashtun? or is it that following pashtunwali?

[Roshina]

^ But, but, but, Swat bro ... where did I say it's modest? And where on earth did I justify their behavior or actions? You're quoting me but saying some things that have absolutely no basis in my points. Care to quote me more properly, please?

Nonetheless, I made it a point not to tell you what I truly think. And yet, you're saying this, lol. It doesn't make any sense.

[Roshina]

P.S. I know - I miss Swat, too. ALLL the time, in fact. It hurts like crazy!

[Roshina]

You said it here,

Oh, okay, I meant to say that they're modest in other things and consider themselves modest. As a sister, daughter, and a fiancee, I can tell you that modesty for women doesn't come in just not talking to men we're not married to. :| Modesty is moooooooooore, MUCH more than that. It doesn't end right in having a boyfriend, as you seem to believe.

Also, according to Islam, having a boyfriend is wrong IFFF you're gonna cross your Islamic limits with him. If not (that is, if you don't do anything you're not supposed to do), there's nothing wrong with having a friend whom you plan to marry. There's nothing IN Islam that says you can't have a "boyfriend," either. It's just: "No premarital sex." And we have interpreted that to mean you can't have a boyfriend, forgetting that having a boyfriend for us is not necessarily the same as it is for the west in general.

I was hoping not to say that, because I know not all of us are prepared to believe that, but since you brought up Islam in it, I felt I should.

And Islam, too, doesn't define "modesty." Islam tells us to be modest, hadiths elaborate, and then our "scholars" (who don't even agree much of the time) elaborate even further. Long story, but maybe another time.

I am not trying to attack you,

And don't worry - you can't attack me even if you tried. And it's not called attacking; it's called disagreeing with someone else in a discussion. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I 100% welcome disagreements and challenges.

I understand this is your site and what not.

This is not my site. lol. Why does everyone keep thinking this is my site? If this were my site, certain members who don't know how to talk properly in public and don't have respect for themselves OR for others would not be here, lol. No, really.

[Roshina]

So in other words, what you said was wrong and you admit it? If you have even the slighest experience of Islam and Pashtunwali, You can point out how flawed and absurd this statement of yours below is.
Its a contradiction.

What, you're here to try to prove me wrong? ... well, many have tried before, but none have succeeded. So try harder, IF you wanna prove Qrratugai wrong.

However, I elaborated on that quote of mine in the above post. You wanna read it or should I paste it for your convenience?

k, I'll paste:

As a sister, daughter, and a fiancee, I can tell you that modesty for women doesn't come in just not talking to men we're not married to. :| Modesty is moooooooooore, MUCH more than that. It doesn't end right in having a boyfriend, as you seem to believe.

Having a boyfriend may be immodest to you and others, but it doens't mean that someone who HAS a boyfriend -- whatever a boyfriend means here -- is absolutely immodest in every single aspect of life and culture and praxis of Islam.