Marriage to non-Pashtuns

[Roshina]

that myt be correct maybe for western culture but not pukhtoonwali or islam. because our view on modesty or our definition of modesty is different to other cultures and religions, a girl with a bf is not considered modest in islam or pukhtoonwali. just remember that ur target audience here are pukhtoons and they are muslim.

Oh I totally understand and agree. But my question this entire time has been: If someone's immodest in ONE aspect of life, does it mean that they're immodest in ALL OTHER aspects of life, too?

[Pukhtoon007]

no actuli that wasnt ur initial question and it changed over the number of posts u made. and for ur new question u need to state your definition of modesty.

[Pukhtoon007]

lol i think that emoticon is geting tired.

[Roshina]

no actuli that wasnt ur initial question and it changed over the number of posts u made. and for ur new question u need to state your definition of modesty.

Are you serious? That was my stance from the very beginning. In case you don't remember, I said:

I know of girls who have boyfriends but are STILL very modest.

What does that mean? It means that someone can have a boyfriend and STILL be modest. And in my response to Shayesta's post, I elaborated, giving examples of these girls and hence defining modesty in a way.

So that's what I've been saying from the start. Anyone who disagrees needs to prove how someone who's immodest on one level is immodest on ALL other levels as well, thereby proving how my claim is a contradiction.

[Roshina]

In our religion and culture, It is immodest. That is what Swat and Pukhtoon007,StrategistMaseed and etc are trying to convey.

I understand that, Samima, and I never said that it's modest to date around. BUT what I said was that someone who's modest in one thing can be modest in other things. Hence, someone who has a boyfriend may be immodest when it comes to people of the opposite gender, but may be modest in other things, since modesty by definition is not limited to a mere "no dating!"

[Pukhtoon007]

Are you serious? That was my stance from the very beginning. In case you don't remember, I said:

I know of girls who have boyfriends but are STILL very modest.

What does that mean? It means that someone can have a boyfriend and STILL be modest. And in my response to Shayesta's post, I elaborated, giving examples of these girls and hence defining modesty in a way.

So that's what I've been saying from the start. Anyone who disagrees needs to prove how someone who's immodest on one level is immodest on ALL other levels as well, thereby proving how my claim is a contradiction.

there u just said it again . please giv us ur definition of modesty. and what are these levels of modesty u speak of lool

[Roshina]

To say that someone who's immodest in terms of dating is immodest *in general* is like saying that someone who doesn't adhere to fulfilling one obligation of their culture/religion is not a follower of that culture/religion anymore. Someone who dates may be immodest when it comes to how they behave in front of people of the opposite gender, but they may be modest when it comes to how they dress, for instanace. OR they may be modest when it comes to practicing Islam and Pashtunwali in other things.

Is that REALLY too difficult to grasp?

@ Pukhtun007: Refer to my respose to Shayesta's post. You'll see what I meant.

[pir_Rokhan]

These standards and definitions have long lost their meanings due to the advent of modern technology and research. With the advancement of society specially in academic and technological terms, the terms change their meanings.

By Old Pakhtun standards even debating a concept with a girl is immodest but still due to internet you are doing that. Hence gone is the old defintion. New technology has brought new definitions of words and this will continue.

[Roshina]

These standards and definitions have long lost their meanings due to the advent of modern technology and research. With the advancement of society specially in academic and technological terms, the terms change their meanings.

By Old Pakhtun standards even debating a concept with a girl is immodest but still due to internet you are doing that. Hence gone is the old defintion. New technology has brought new definitions of words and this will continue.

How true! Thank you for reminding us of the uselessness and irrelevance of a discourse such as this one.

Manana.

[Punjabi]

It was always my dream to marry a Pashtun girl. Its very common in Punjab.

[єѕαρχαι]

It was always my dream to marry a Pashtun girl. Its very common in Punjab.

My hometown is tarbela dam. hope you know where it is.
Pashtuns dont give their girls away.
I have never seen any such thing and if some family does that , they are hated in pashtun society.

So give up dreaming unless you meet some prost.

[Pukhtoon007]

To say that someone who's immodest in terms of dating is immodest *in general* is like saying that someone who doesn't adhere to fulfilling one obligation of their culture/religion is not a follower of that culture/religion anymore. Someone who dates may be immodest when it comes to how they behave in front of people of the opposite gender, but they may be modest when it comes to how they dress, for instanace. OR they may be modest when it comes to practicing Islam and Pashtunwali in other things.

Is that REALLY too difficult to grasp?

@ Pukhtun007: Refer to my respose to Shayesta's post. You'll see what I meant.

i noe wat ur talking about here answer this . ok this is the definition of modesty in a dictionary

1 : freedom from conceit or vanity
2 : propriety in dress, speech, or conduct

the thing is that say a girl with a boyfirend is not modest (conduct) but they are reali modest wen it comes to dressing and speech its all personal opinion from here on but i think most pukhtuns or muslims will proli say the above example girl is not modest. lol like my uni unit i had an exam wit 4 sections if i fail one section but score 90s in the rest i fail the exam thus failing the unit. i hope u get wat i mean in my opinion thats how i see modesty u are either modest in all forms of modesty or watever u wanna call it or ur not.

anywayz this is the end of this topic im out. i just completed my exam havent sleept for like 2 days omg sleep oh sleep.

[Shayesta]

Qrratugai, either I am the only one who understands you, or either I am the only who wants to understand you. LOL.

Having a boyfriend and being modest? Again, For the 6th time to US PASHTUNS having a boyfriend is not something we considered modest.

And again you didn't get it. Yes, we Pukhtoons don't like seeing our people date around, but Qrratugai never said she supports this 'custom' amongst Pukhtoons! If we can agree that Europeans could be modest and have a boyfriend, then why not those Pukhtanas who live in West and are happy adapting Western culture? Just like how we can't force some Pukhtoons to call themselves Pukhtoon which they refuse to do because they don't speak Pukhto, then how can we force those Pukhtanas to keep up with Islam and Pakhtunwali even if they don't want to follow Islam or Pakhunwali? The day we left our homeland for the democratic and 'free' West, that day we should have realise our people can turn into anything and only option we are left with is just accept that fact. If Qrratugai had made that statement about women in Afghanistan or Pakhtunkhwa then I would have been the first person to bombard her with questions, but since she is talking about the USA then why should we argue with her (Qrratugai) for something which is being put into practise by them (those Pukhtanas she was talking about)? Now are we mad at Qrratugai for making a bitter statement, or are we actually mad at those Pukhtanas so-called 'defaming' us but oust it on Qrratugai anyway since we can't do it on those girls?

that myt be correct maybe for western culture but not pukhtoonwali or islam. because our view on modesty or our definition of modesty is different to other cultures and religions, a girl with a bf is not considered modest in islam or pukhtoonwali. just remember that ur target audience here are pukhtoons and they are muslim.

And the thing you have to accept is that she is talking about the Western world where not all Pukhtoons want to be known as Pukhtoons and not all Pukhtoons want to practise Pakhtunwali. For those Pukhtoons who keep up with their culture it may be immodest to have a boyfriend, but Westerners usually laugh at those who never date before marriage. For us, they are immodest, but for them, we might be immodest. And those Pukhtanas could very well put themselves in Western category, not in Pukhtoon category. You and I are none to decide who will remain modest and when they will lose their modesty, everyone has got their own point of view regarding it. Yes, if such women were to be found in Pakhtunkhwa areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan more and more often, then I would worry and then I will call them immodest as despite of being in their own country, following their own religion and their own culture, yet they gathered the guts to break the Islamic rules and Pukhtoon culture. But in West, we cannot stop anyone from doing anything and we cannot force anyone to remain a 'true Pukhtana', just because it offends us seeing them doing so and because we consider that as immodest. Just like how we don't care about what non-Muslims think of our people and religion, exactly same wise those 'Westernised Pukhtanas' don't care about what 'true Pukhtoons' think of them.

no actuli that wasnt ur initial question and it changed over the number of posts u made.

With all the unnecessary questions she is being bombarded with and all the unnecessary critics she receives here, do you think it's funny she will change her ways of questioning and answering to finally make you guys understand her point?

So give up dreaming unless you meet some prost.

Prost? Does that stand for 'prostitutes'? Do Pukhtoons of Pakhtunkhwa really think this low of Punjabi people in general? Or are Punjabis considered as in a lower cast than Pukhtoons? There are enough Pukhtoons in Punjab who will speak Punjabi as their first language but won't give away their daughters to Punjabis, why is that? You are ready to adapt their language and culture in exchange for your own, but yet feel 'disgusted' when a real Punjabi of them actually wants to marry your women? How strange is that?

[Master Khan]

Real pashtuns would never give away their daughers to non-pashtuns.
Marrying Non-pashtun is not good for our culture, mostly for females because they will have to leave their home and live and adapt their lifestyle.

[Master Khan]

My hometown is tarbela dam. hope you know where it is.
Pashtuns dont give their girls away.
I have never seen any such thing and if some family does that , they are hated in pashtun society.

So give up dreaming unless you meet some prost.

cool Thats in Swabi , I am from Swabi.