Evolution theory contradicts the Quran and Hadiths

[unknownprince]

Address Alchemists words line for line because your the one who has panicked.

You have made a complete fool out yourself. All you do is talk about the person when they address your stupid arguments, and you don't know how to respond.

That just shows you are incapable of rebutting them.

Carry on with the personal attacks, it shows how weak your flimsy arguments are.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Address Alchemists words line for line because your the one who has panicked.

You have made a complete fool out yourself. All you do is talk about the person when they address your stupid arguments, and you don't know how to respond.

That just shows you are incapable of rebutting them.

Carry on with the personal attacks, it shows how weak your flimsy arguments are.

Did you not read my response to you? I showed you a link where he constantly avoids responses made to him, and then claims false scenarios that never happened which is evident by the fact he never shows direct quotations of the opponents arguments.

why? all he does is make excuses for why he had a Pork Vending business like Subway and makes accusations which he never backs up

nothing really to address.

There's no need for a point by point debate when most of the things he says were pure nonsense he fabricated in his own mind.

[Alchemist]

Arguing with a douche bag like this is a waste of time.

This is what I am trying to tell you guys.

He says that I am not presenting proofs for what I am accusing him of... but then where is his proof of what he is presenting?!

Anyone seen it yet?

LOL

What's his proof that I had a subway restaurant to begin with?? You believed me when I said I have one, but you wont if I said I sold it? Obviously because you have nothing else to fall back on. This is called a red herring. An Adhominem. Truth is truth even if it comes from the devil's own mouth.

Secondly, this buffoon asked me to use proper nomenclature? LOL
He thought he was mounting some awesome challenge when he asked me to list EACH nucleotide that differed between chimps and humans for a particular immunoglobin protein. So I gave the moron the link to EACH allele that was in dispute from a famous website...what does he say? He says to me, "No, don't copy and paste it, I want you to type by hand all 200+ base pairs for all 8 alleles, then highlight where the differences are. Then explain what that difference means." It goes to show that he himself is so ignorant that when I did drop science on him he was too stupid to recognize it.
When the original paper I quoted, which was from a peer reviewed journal showed that the difference in the same gene was MORE amongst human than between humans to chimpanzees...why should you challenge me on that?


His attempts at slandering and derailing the issue is typical ...

He keeps using that word, "Logic" a lot but where is the logic in what he just said?
He says I begged him to come here....so if I beg him to leave will he leave?
How many times did he make a thread saying he was going to cut down for this or that reason or leave? And I am theatrical?

Does anyone here consider him to be a "Watchdog" over secularists? What an asinine statement to make when you have spent more time here promoting secular beliefs...As a matter of fact all Secularist and Kaffirs have rallied behind him on the issue of evolution. He goes so far as to say that "Creationism is farcical" when it is a tenant of our aqidah!
Most Muslims on this site find his presence annoying when constantly he keeps passing judgement according to his own biased up bringing and fleeting whims. How are you a watchdog when all the while you try to discredit the real guardians of the deen, the ulama?

I didn't ask you to come here because of your debating scale. Toromana and some others kept making anti-arab comments, so I brought you here because you were half arab and half pashtun. Your existence was my answer to them...it didn't matter what you said or what you did, but just being around was enough to make the point that pashtoons aren't that different from arabs. Your stupid arguments about the ecology and western materialism wasn't it. Have no delusions about that son.

Maybe I brought you here because there was no fun in pointing out your short comings through emails...there was no spectator to behold or weigh. You just did the same thing you are doing here back then too. Same stupid come backs... there is no way to get through thick skull. So I just got to make an example out of you.

Maybe...

All you know is what I tell you about me... the rest is just guesswork on your part.

[ScimitarXEdge]

That's a complete lie; the link that was given, gave only gave a graphical schematic....it doesn't elaborate on the precise details of the exact detail of their corresponding proteins. this is further demonstration that alchemist only blindly regurgitates terms he casually to make it seem as if he understands them but simply has no understanding of their relevance or significance.

Slander | Define Slander at Dictionary.com
The slander , even though BY DEFINITION it isn't slander, because it is ALL factual, by Alchemists own admission. Another demonstration that Alchemist mindlessly babbles things he doesn't actually understand; is there to demonstrate that Alchemist has no credibility from an Islamic Standpoint. The fact he works at Subway shows that he has NO credentials or actual experience in studying any of the relevant materials for the debate. He doesn't have an academic degree of any sort, and has no experience in the subject on any level. Not even an Ecology or Organsmal Biology course, which would be BARE minimum.

The points he makes were merely uncorroborated hallucinations that he recycled from previous debates which were already DEBUNKED, and further exemplified by Alchemist's cowardly scapegoating when he was asked to demonstrate his compentency in correctly explaining the biochemistry schema of what the DNA in other primates and humans, something that would be necessary if he was to debunk the Phylogenetic Tree. Instead he accused others of trying to "learn from him", and failed to demonstrate the required demands of evidence for his claim.

Here's actually the link he claims supports his argument, http://www.ecologia.unam.mx/laborato...eMythOfEve.pdf , Ignoring the fact at how outdated by 16 years the article actually is.

here is the portion which he claims support his argument and fulfill the demands of evidence that were requested of him.


while the graph shows how many nucleotides correspond with the specific genes comparisons, it does not detail the animoacids in each nucleotide which is what was demanded from Alchemist to support his argument. Not only use of a grossly outdated article demonstration of his intellectual dishonesty, his inability to correctly identify the specific nucleotides in the genes, demonstrate his complete incompetence in understanding what he is arguing. Now 3 months down the line, when the smoke has cleared, he thinks that presenting his own self serving portrayal of events will redeem his defeat, when for months he effectively ran with his tail between his legs.


QED

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Yeah, Scimitar, that's what he does - he either posts obscure and outdated articles or he posts the views of one intellectual, even if that view has been scientifically defeated by thousands of others, and like a typical dishonest creationist, he plays on his audience's ignorance by trying to pass it off as mainstream science.


@Alchemist, after 35 pages of this "debate", you have failed to give an alternative scientific theory that explains the diversity of life on earth.

Lastly, if you really do have definite proof that evolution is not a science and it's mere speculation, let's see you publish your "findings". The worst that could happen would be that you'd win a Nobel Prize and become the most celebrated scientist of the 21st century. But the fact is that you have nothing and you know that.

People like me are laypersons and we only follow what the most respected and recognized scientists in the world agree to based on the evidence at hand (which is accessible to everyone), that is scrutinized thoroughly by thousands of great minds from across the world and then admitted as science. That's how we get our understanding of the world. As humans, we follow logic and rationality.

I have seen many creationist arguments and they can be summarized into two categories: 1) fabrications and distortions of facts and 2) poking their fingers into holes in areas that scientists are currently trying to understand better and then claiming that they have proven that evolution is false even though they always fail to provide an alternative scientific theory for the diversity of life on earth. People like Alchemist have, over the centuries, failed to understand natural phenomena and when they fail to understand something, they attribute it to an unreachable and undefinable supernatural being because they themselves have no clue about it. That is not science, that is mambo-jumbo.

I bet your outdated Christian Biblical pseudoscience won't even make it through a tenth grade biology teacher, let alone a scientific journal.

But we are still waiting for you to publish your findings, Alchemist. Or at least present them to us so that we will be the first people on the planet to witness the great work of a scientist who has dismissed the last two centuries of biology.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Levanaye, this Subway Sandwich Shop Worker, who sells pork is such an intellectual fraud that he's too cowardly to actually debate and confront actual experts on the subject and then has the audacity to accuse me of using this as a pretext of trying to convince experts so I'll be willing to convert. He thinks that what he lacks in intellect he can make up for with pomp. Really, the whole point of urging him to challenge experts, is to show the public the flaws of Creation Science, they can do it much more thoroughly than I can, since they work IN the field.

I will readily admit, my knowledge on the subject of evolutionary biology is very basic, since that isn't my field; but having experience in science in general I can spot his ridiculous conclusions.

People say I'm trying to character assassinate him by mentioning that he works at Subway; but it really is a legitimate point; if this guy was such an expert on Evolution and how it works and believes he's acquired some deep insight as to why it fails to meet the measurable criteria of evidence; this would be a scientific breakthrough, why isn't he Working in a Major research Lab or Publicly publishing his findings? Why is he working at a Major Fastfood chain? It just adds more absurdity to the mix.

[Afghanistan2010]

We have given a lot scientific proofs from quran and sunnah but you stil remain ignorants.

you have made your own version of the quran.

[faye]

it appears that some people need science to verify their reality for them. so has allah been scientifically verified?

[Alchemist]

People like me are laypersons and we only follow what the most respected and recognized scientists in the world agree to

I will readily admit, my knowledge on the subject of evolutionary biology is very basic, since that isn't my field; but having experience in science in general I can spot his ridiculous conclusions.

Thank you both, for admitting that you are ignorant on the subject. And that you are only blindly believing in the narrative of evolution because you have faith in "scientists".

Here is the irony again, that the two of you know that you know little, but you feel that you have to speak on that which you know not...a lot. And that too on faith. If I haven't contributed anything after page 35 or whatever, it's simply because this has never been a debate on the facts of biology but a political type of campaign for other ideals and issues. And now you two are asking what credentials I have when neither of you have any either?

it appears that some people need science to verify their reality for them. so has allah been scientifically verified?

Good question, to an Extant ****mitar and Lewanay have asked the same question phrased differently.

I have already gone over the facts with all of you and unfortunately not many remember or even bother to read and understand what I say because they think I am the devil incognito.

And even if Thomas Edison was deemed too stupid for high school, or Einstein only able to work as a patent clerk( you just need a bachelors to be one), Bill Gates didn't even finish college, Gregor Mendal couldn't even pass the teacher's examination let alone have a degree in biology, they still did more than any of you could for...and these morons are asking for my credentials? Why?

I find it rather comical that this buffoon ****imitar goes at length damning western civilization and all its evil when he has a mind and an attitude that is completely westernized. This type of adoration for credentials and expert opinion comes from an adulation towards the power of rationalism. When the west declared that "god is dead" (auzobillah) they made rationalism their new god, and invented systems and structures of rationalism to take His place. Now openly you see him asking proof from the secular system of beliefs and then calls him self a watch dog against secularist. Cognitive dissonance much?

Let me break this down to you lay people one more time.
Science is not an omnipotent being, nor is it a purely objective subject, contrary to the popular beliefs. Science has it's short comings.
It is not the function of Science to explain the big Questions, i.e, where did we come from? Where are we going to? What is the meaning of life? What is life? Why do we die? Can we live forever? What is good and what is evil?

The object of science is merely to "DESCRIBE" - this is what it is, NOW and right here, and this is what we expect it to be tomorrow. Four hundred years ago when "the enlightened" ones of europe spoke against the domination of church and it's superstitious beliefs, the question of the soul, the make up of reality was purported to be non existent so that the power would be swayed from the clergy and people could live secularly (worldly). Two hundred years later scientists had to admit that such a thing as a soul could exist, and other worlds that were beyound our perceptions can exist and may exist and that the nature of the world is not as mechanistic as they supposed. The claims of religion were validated! And now we have these new age type believers who are quasi religious, like ****mitar for example, because the science allows for it. But science can't tell you what your life purpose is.

Science works by parsing and reducing matter into smaller and smaller pieces, it becomes more accurate as the the smallest unit of it's subjects becomes more and more determined. But it cannot piece the bigger picture with as much accuracy. And some things exist only as a whole and cannot be reduced, and others exist differently as a whole than from its units. And so the debates between cosmologists continue...and some scientists would even tell you that the narrative of the big bang it self is semi religious and dogmatic, and that these computer simulations that are run by big shot professors are inherently subjective and not scientific at all.
Like wise the narrative of evolution is simply put a mythology rehashed to fit with the modern language of today's culture, which is "western". Since the language of the Church had to be squashed out, such a narrative as evolution was born of necessity. The scientific community does not "believe" in evolution, but only uses it as a modal of communication. The assumption is that whatever exists has come to exist over millions of years, gradually, and randomly by trial and error without any Will of a Creator or any sort of direction, planning or design. This is why these two lay people are "regurgitating" a western dialogue for me. Even though ****mitar throws this anti-western facade, he has adopted the european dialogue, or schism and is trying to reenact it here. Why? Because he has the mentality of a politician running for a campaign and chooses slogans that are popular and more appealing to the general populace like "Don't do drugs". He rightly believes that evolution is the winning side of the debate in the western world. But we are talking about Islam. We are not talking about the Church and how they screwed up europe and how rationalism and secularism saved them and made them the dominant power in the world. This buffoon believes that if we adopt that same narrative then we too will become the dominator. How absurd is that?

Then levanay says that I should give an alternative to evolution. Why? To what end would that serve a purpose. The funny thing is that most atheists don't even know how to be atheists. Especially immigrant atheists who are the most comical of all and most awkward at emulating this century old western trend. The westerners learned a long time ago not to question why things exist, but to merely accept that they do exist. This is what it is, and it is beyound the mind of the philosopher to say why it exists, and if he were to dabble in that, he would loose his mind (e.g Nietzsche). So you think "god is dead" and now man is god. Man will produce life in a laboratory and change the nature of matter, turn lead into gold, a monkey into a human.

Such buffoons should not bother to debate with me on a subject matter that they themselves have admitted to be completely ignorant of!
It is is slanderous for you to say that I am this or that when in fact you don't even know the first thing about me. It's easy to say that I don't know...when I could write easily a book for you, so profound you would get a head ache from reading it, as you get a heart ache from reading this.

Out dated? Buffoons par excellence! A Journal article has an expiry date on it that 16 years is too late? Wouldn't the theory of evolution as espoused by Darwin be the most out dated of all?! 150 years old...and remodelled and disfigured a hundred times over and still useless! I already gave a list of famous scientists who are against the theory of evolution when I debated that goat. But that is hardly the issue...evolution is only a narrative that allows for a secular perspective on life. Such a perspective has ramifications that are unhealthy and by promoting this debunked theory, you are doing a disservice to the Ummah, ****mitarsexedge.
Allow me to explain to you how the theory of evolution is actually unislamic (i.e, unhealthy) for you. Although, in retrospect, I see that you do exhibit some of these signs and symptoms.

Firstly, viewing existence from an evolutionary perspective, gives one the feeling that the function of one's life is merely to reproduce. Sex becomes the
central and dominant drive and imaginary sex becomes the opiate of the people. When the basic nature of a man is believed to be inscribed in his genes, and his DNA is translated to be his soul, then procreation is winning. A man must mate with as many woman as possible, and a woman must secure the most resourceful man. Beauty and youth become the most obsessed over features and the value of one's worth will measured as such. This is nothing short of giving into one's carnal desires. The objectification of man...and ****mitar is already convinced that he is a hairless monkey, and that he must secure a beautiful mate.

Secondly, one changes their behaviour such that they would gain the most for themselves alone and put their interest before the rest. This creates the type of machismo and chauvinism that ****mitar sometimes displays. We start to think that whites and chinese and africans are totally different from us, as if another species that have evolved from another line of old world prime apes. As such people love more those who look and act like themselves, believing that they share more similar genes, and thus a more similar soul, so we become more sheepish and more willing to conform and adapt to a herd like mentality. The driving force in evolution theory is competition, and as such the current economical modal is created to weed out the weak and we feel that the weak are deservedly weak and disenfranchised. A concept of fairness does not exist in this modal. Charity is allowed only when it is in favour of one's own survival. A type of predatory and prey violence is to be accepted, be it emotional or physical, but without any reason or understood purpose. Competition it self is valued ...the ritual of sports encapsulates this concepts...the olympics and etc. Like wise, this douchebag is trying to compete with me here ...so he keeps calling me a pork vendor as if that has something to do with evolution. Even though he doesn't know how a nucleotide relates to an amino acid he still makes a stupid request like "Detail the amino acids for EACH nucleotide" (three nucleotides code for one amino acide, there are 64 combinations of ACTG and 22 amino acides, grade 10 biology, buffoon!!)

Simply put, evolution is materialism. If you believe in evolution, you believe in materialism. If you believe in materialism you don't believe in Allah, and thus ****mitar is "Agnostic theist" and Levanay murtad.

Both buffoons have posted nonsense. Nothing of value for me to actually debate on. I don't care enough for ****mitar to tell my life story and shouldn't even matter what I do. Rather there responses demonstrate the fact that they are brainwashed. They don't have a mind of their own to weigh on the merit of evolution, so they go by what "experts" tell them to...then he has the galls to tell decent muslims not to follow an Imam or a sheikh in matter's of deen. What sophistry!

Fail!

[Toramana]

Alchemist brother Jan, how much gold have you fabricated so far through that superb knowledge of Al-Chemy? And why this loss of interest in Arab identity...You owned it with such a pride?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Thank you both, for admitting that you are ignorant on the subject. And that you are only blindly believing in the narrative of evolution because you have faith in "scientists".
l!

quote mining again Subway Shop Pork Vendor?

I will readily admit, my knowledge on the subject of evolutionary biology is very basic, since that isn't my field; but having experience in science in general I can spot his ridiculous conclusions.

It means even with my BASIC knowledge, I know enough to know how flawed your arguments are.


Even with your elaborate self aggrandized babbling, you have failed to address the same inconsistencies in your argument

a.) How is it that the proteins of other primates have such a high degree of match with the proteins of humans, something you failed to explain.

b.) Why are you not publicly promoting your findings and confronting experts in this field with this material and engaging them?

Stop with this ridiculous straw man/diversion of "blind faith" in scientists false appeal. Your inabiity or rather refusal to take your arguments to meet the chalenge of expert scrutiny, demonstrates blind faith in its epitome. You're so sure of yourself yet you have never done a single experment

You don't even have any Academic experience in any such field; according to your own statements your field was Psychology ...the lamest and academically weakest field at a University. LOL Even your psych degree is something of suspect.

[ScimitarXEdge]

We have given a lot scientific proofs from quran and sunnah but you stil remain ignorants.

you have made your own version of the quran.

do you even know what would constitute something being scientific or not?

If yes , please explain what are the criterion for something to be scientific

[Alchemist]

^Do you?

Why don't you tell him what is scientific or not?

Because you seem to be under the false impression that evolution is scientific...lol


douche bag...

get your mind right....

[ScimitarXEdge]

^Do you?

Why don't you tell him what is scientific or not?

Because you seem to be under the false impression that evolution is scientific...lol


douche bag...

get your mind right....

Let the twirp fight his own battles

Circular argument again. since you have yet to demonstrate in any published peer reviewed material why Evolution is not scientific

when you present peer reviewed materials publicly challenging evolution and engage in debates with experts which you have successfully refuted, then maybe you MIGHT have some credence on the matter.

[Alchemist]

circular arguments?

Story of your life...

32 years old and what?

Where is your peer reviewed paper?

Who the heck are you to have any "Credence" on the matter?

Douche bag!