why Creationism is farcical and Evolution is a meritable Scientific Concept

[Alchemist]

The environment aka the biotope sets the charakteristics of the abiotic factors.

The researchers clearly stated that change in the DNA occurs but the bacterias are not fit enough to compete with their unchanged fellow species.

The concept of time is your problem, I think.
Everything longer than 100 years, a time that tops your own lifetime, cannot be understood properly by a normal human mind.
2,5 Billion years or 2,5 * 10^9 years (the starting point of the chemical evolution) is the key concept herel.

The evolution theory has thousands of examples where a species changes and the new branch wouldn´t be competetive with the former IF we neglect the biotop the live in and the abiotic factors that would favour one over the other.

I think, everyone with basic knowledge in biology would understand that.

Apart from that, your arguements don´t get better if call someone "son" or "father".
And I must have missed the mind-blowing part of the videos because thats common knowledge what they are talking about.

First of all, you said micro evolution leads to macro evolution for microbes. Time is a relative concept, a hundred years for you is like a billion years for a microbe...yet the scientists in the vid clearly stated that despite the changes (stresses) introduced no new species of bacteria are to be found.

Secondly, you misunderstood the meaning of the word biotope and out of your own ignorance, use it antithetical to the word "abiotic" when really neither word applies to microbes...as it is a word more commonly used in "ecology". For example, a biotope maybe composed of abiotic factors. You are trying to sound smart by fudging the meaning of words and confuse the issue...rather than keeping it simple and admitting fault. Surprise, surprise...

Thirdly, change in DNA means nothing to our conversation if that change leads to a loss of function, since the underlying premise of evolution is that "mutations lead to beneficial traits". If the fitness cost is high, then that change can't be said to be "beneficial". How can your mind be blown, if you don't understand this simple fact...son?


And fourthly, I understand that you are trying to pitch at me Gould's Time arrow, or "Deep Time". This doesn't bare much...if you lived 20,000 years instead of 120 max, do you suppose your perception of time would differ? Probably not. You'd still experience time the same way, as being relative. And your memory would still function the same...so here is a little something for you:
Rapid evolutionary innovation during an Archaean genetic expansion : Nature : Nature Publishing Group
Look to figure 1 - you can see a scale of "time"....do you see blue blot expanding with time? No? Ok ... thanks for your 'time'.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Ok I just come in here just to laugh at the idiocy of Alchemist's responses.

namely this

First of all, you said micro evolution leads to macro evolution for microbes. Time is a relative concept, a hundred years for you is like a billion years for a microbe...yet the scientists in the vid clearly stated that despite the changes (stresses) introduced no new species of bacteria are to be found.

What?!?!?!?! ....Microbes don't experience time differently than other more complex systematized organisms do, in fact one reason evolution can be meaningfully understood is because the way time operates is the same for all organisms because they are all experiencing the same forces (earth's gravitational and magnetic field, solar radiation, etc etc etc); and hence the same time scale.

I watched the videos Alchemist pointed out, and I'm wondering if he himself understood its contents.

Anyways carry on, the Phylogenetic tree is real.

[MostafaM]

First of all, you said micro evolution leads to macro evolution for microbes. Time is a relative concept, a hundred years for you is like a billion years for a microbe...yet the scientists in the vid clearly stated that despite the changes (stresses) introduced no new species of bacteria are to be found.

Secondly, you misunderstood the meaning of the word biotope and out of your own ignorance, use it antithetical to the word "abiotic" when really neither word applies to microbes...as it is a word more commonly used in "ecology". For example, a biotope maybe composed of abiotic factors. You are trying to sound smart by fudging the meaning of words and confuse the issue...rather than keeping it simple and admitting fault. Surprise, surprise...

Thirdly, change in DNA means nothing to our conversation if that change leads to a loss of function, since the underlying premise of evolution is that "mutations lead to beneficial traits". If the fitness cost is high, then that change can't be said to be "beneficial". How can your mind be blown, if you don't understand this simple fact...son?


And fourthly, I understand that you are trying to pitch at me Gould's Time arrow, or "Deep Time". This doesn't bare much...if you lived 20,000 years instead of 120 max, do you suppose your perception of time would differ? Probably not. You'd still experience time the same way, as being relative. And your memory would still function the same...so here is a little something for you:
Rapid evolutionary innovation during an Archaean genetic expansion : Nature : Nature Publishing Group
Look to figure 1 - you can see a scale of "time"....do you see blue blot expanding with time? No? Ok ... thanks for your 'time'.

1. I didn´t say micro-evolution leads to macro-evolution for microbes.
The terms micro and macro evolution were invented to highlight the time aspect of evolution. Micro-evolution for microbes can clearly be seen under every microscope if you do research on a bacteria strain.

2. Time is relative ? We are not talking about twin paradoxon or the Einstein´sche Relativity Theory.

3. Where did I use the terms biotope and abiotic factors as antithetical terms? A biotope can be described by it´s biotical and abiotical factors.
In the case of the bacteria, the biotope of that strain would be culture dish and one of the abiotical factors may be the presence of a chemical substance that destroys them, the antibiotic.

4. "mutations lead to beneficial traits"
That´s your misconception. One of trillion mutations can be a beneficial to a species. Not every mutation is beneficial.
I do not know where you got that idea from, but again, you need to go back to basic biology and science classes to understand what the researchers in the videos were talking about.

The bacteria could have undergone thousands of mutations, not all but one of those mutations lead in one or two bacteria cells to a kind of immunisation.

5. Your "Deep Time" has no relation to micro-evolution of bacteria.

6. Can you tell me why there are different races in mankind and why those races are geographically separated on different continents?

[ScimitarXEdge]

I belief you did not read my response clearly. Where did I say god is lying to humanity? Where did god say that Evolution is real? Then in "reality" it's true?

Remember god created Adam from clay, then Eve from Adam's ribs. God created Jinns from fire.

Hell will be filled with people, don't forget that.

2:
23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

24. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.

(the last one could be said about evolutionists)

13. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know

This is how you evolutionists think like. Saying creationism is "farcical". Did yu notice how all these surahs are from 2 buqarah? Such a complete book.

God is seeing who is a real believer, it's the devil's world to play. Are you going to fall for his tricks? It seems Alchemist is real, he isn't falling for his tricks. I didn't know they were Afghans falling for this.

Edit
2:214

Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah." Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!

This is purely absurd; Allah(swt) does not always state these things literally; God created nature and science shows how nature works; science shows evidence of how God formed humans, how can two contradictory things exist from the same God? Clearly; these verses cannot be literal.

[کیش]

^^^^

Say what? You are falling for the Devil's tricks and games. Earlier you said why would god purposely try to fool mankind. Then I posed the Quran Surah about how he tests mans faith. Now your saying that the verses aren't literal?

How about this, since I do not understand your views of Evolution. What species do you belief have been evolved?

You don't think you fall under 2:13? Calling creationism farcical and foolish?

[ScimitarXEdge]

^^^^

Say what? You are falling for the Devil's tricks and games. Earlier you said why would god purposely try to fool mankind. Then I posed the Quran Surah about how he tests mans faith. Now your saying that the verses aren't literal?

How about this, since I do not understand your views of Evolution. What species do you belief have been evolved?

You don't think you fall under 2:13? Calling creationism farcical and foolish?

No I'm saying the verses about Adam's rib and being made from clay is not literal; how can they be?

God doesn't test faith by trying to deceive and fool people.

all natural species have evolved, from microbes to humans.

and no I don't because there is EVIDENCE ...from NATURE that creationism is farical and foolish; and since if God exists , Nature would have to have been made by God, it would mean that God is indicating creationism is farcical and foolish.

[کیش]

No I'm saying the verses about Adam's rib and being made from clay is not literal; how can they be?

God doesn't test faith by trying to deceive and fool people. Do you not belief in Dajjal? God created him for a reason.

all natural species have evolved, from microbes to humans.

and no I don't because there is EVIDENCE ...from NATURE that creationism is farical and foolish; and since if God exists , Nature would have to have been made by God, it would mean that God is indicating creationism is farcical and foolish.

God clearly tests people, in whatever way he feels like it.

If humans have evolved, why wouldn't God mentioned it in the Quran? Instead says how he created Adam from dirt. Why didn't the prophet(PBUH) mention anything close to evolution?

Do you belief that god created Adam, or was Adam evolved?

Do you belief in Jinns? Theirs no "scientific evidence" of them. Do you think they evolved?

[ScimitarXEdge]

God clearly tests people, in whatever way he feels like it.

If humans have evolved, why wouldn't God mentioned it in the Quran? Instead says how he created Adam from dirt. Why didn't the prophet(PBUH) mention anything close to evolution?

Do you belief that god created Adam, or was Adam evolved?

Do you belief in Jinns? Theirs no "scientific evidence" of them. Do you think they evolved?

So you're saying God will deceive and fool people? Then this would make God to blame then. not humans, this would mean that God is trying to trick people; which would make God unjust

would you really want to blame God for these things?

The Qur'an does mention it; in the literal verses it says "all life comes from water"; this is consistent with evolutionary theory not the theory that we're made of clay, clay is not water. Therefore the clay verse cannot be literal.

Do you believe God has hands?

[کیش]

^^
I wouldn't know. I never seen or heard god when I am awake.

God created Dajjal? Did he not? What is Dajjals job? To fool people into thinking he is god. Why did god create Dajjal? Only he knows best.

send reference for everything being made of water. I know it's their, as the fact that humans are built from dirt.

[ScimitarXEdge]

He created Dajjal, but GOD HIMSELF does not fool people; and even if he did Dajjal is not more powerful than God, that he can alter the way God how God made nature. So even based on this notion it is not feasible for God to skew science to mislead people.

Science shows real proofs, you can test science to see if what it says is confirmable; and science can be modified based on more evidence.

you're giving merely a superficial interpretation of the Qur'an; which has nothing to do with God himself.

[کیش]

I didn't say God tricks people, in a sense "by himself". I said earlier that it's Ibliss's job to deceive people, so he can bring as many as Adam's offspring with him. God created Ibliss, didn't he?

God also created Dajjal to trick people, so god cannot see how Humans act.

The concept of Evolution isn't apart of Muhammad (PBUH) teachings, and if you are adding this up to Islam; that can bean act of Takfir.

[Alchemist]

1. I didn´t say micro-evolution leads to macro-evolution for microbes.
The terms micro and macro evolution were invented to highlight the time aspect of evolution. Micro-evolution for microbes can clearly be seen under every microscope if you do research on a bacteria strain.

2. Time is relative ? We are not talking about twin paradoxon or the Einstein´sche Relativity Theory.

3. Where did I use the terms biotope and abiotic factors as antithetical terms? A biotope can be described by it´s biotical and abiotical factors.
In the case of the bacteria, the biotope of that strain would be culture dish and one of the abiotical factors may be the presence of a chemical substance that destroys them, the antibiotic.

4. "mutations lead to beneficial traits"
That´s your misconception. One of trillion mutations can be a beneficial to a species. Not every mutation is beneficial.
I do not know where you got that idea from, but again, you need to go back to basic biology and science classes to understand what the researchers in the videos were talking about.

The bacteria could have undergone thousands of mutations, not all but one of those mutations lead in one or two bacteria cells to a kind of immunisation.

5. Your "Deep Time" has no relation to micro-evolution of bacteria.

6. Can you tell me why there are different races in mankind and why those races are geographically separated on different continents?

Leave the time aspect out of this...and think clearly about this.
Microevolution involves change in EXISTING allele frequencies. Macroevolutionary "Progress" requires synthesis of WHOLE NEW genes. The video talks about a LOSS of function mutation..we are looking for NEW genes composed by Darwinian point mutations and recombination...(million monkies, type writers, shakespear).

Show me an example of one Mutation that is beneficial of it's own. A new gene formed...not from a loss of function, but random mutations leading to a beneficial trait and I'll be convinced of your evolution. (Supposing that you even are arguing for evolution ...or just arguing for the sake of arguing like the rest).

[Alchemist]

I didn't say God tricks people, in a sense "by himself". I said earlier that it's Ibliss's job to deceive people, so he can bring as many as Adam's offspring with him. God created Ibliss, didn't he?

God also created Dajjal to trick people, so god cannot see how Humans act.

The concept of Evolution isn't apart of Muhammad (PBUH) teachings, and if you are adding this up to Islam; that can bean act of Takfir.

Brother ....

People are very good at deceiving themselves. Shaitan sometimes just gives some "suggestions"...and they do the rest themselves. Sometimes they even give shaitain some good arguments to use.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I didn't say God tricks people, in a sense "by himself". I said earlier that it's Ibliss's job to deceive people, so he can bring as many as Adam's offspring with him. God created Ibliss, didn't he?

God also created Dajjal to trick people, so god cannot see how Humans act.

The concept of Evolution isn't apart of Muhammad (PBUH) teachings, and if you are adding this up to Islam; that can bean act of Takfir.

Iblis cannot and does not change what is ordered by God, this would make Iblis more powerful than he.

Evolution doesn't have to be apart of the Muhammad(saw)'s teachings; Muhammad(saw) never came to teach science; similarly Physics is not apart of Muhammad(saw)'s teachings, but the evidence of Physics is there in Islam and in the natural world and similarly with evolution.

It's only takfir for jahleen and brainwashed people. Your ignorant and closed minded views are only a product of lacking education.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I didn't say God tricks people, in a sense "by himself". I said earlier that it's Ibliss's job to deceive people, so he can bring as many as Adam's offspring with him. God created Ibliss, didn't he?

God also created Dajjal to trick people, so god cannot see how Humans act.

The concept of Evolution isn't apart of Muhammad (PBUH) teachings, and if you are adding this up to Islam; that can bean act of Takfir.

All knowing God can't see how human's act? What is more worthy of takfir here?