Alcohol consumption at universities?

[Dinosaur Khan]

Qrattu your strange questions are exhausting. I asked my friend to give me the translated version of Quran by ameen ahsan islahi and he gave me so in a way i searched for translation, is'nt it? I did'not search it on internet which was easy way because i dont trust sensitive material on net. I have feeling that you dont pick the sense of sentences which i write.

Any way it was good to learn frm you on this topic. i wil b absent for few months.

[Roshina]

Any way it was good to learn frm you on this topic. i wil b absent for few months.

The feeling's mutual!
Drop by when you can every now and then.

[king-zazai]

~salutes~ YES SIR!

Here they are. I'm not sure how many you can handle, but for now, I will give you only a couple and request that you explain them to me because they REALLY baffle my mind, and I've asked a ton of people, but nothing has worked so far. So, please, help me here, kid.

- "Unto you, your religion; unto me, mine" - Quran, 2:256
- "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clear from falsehood" - Quran, 2:256
- "But if they turn away from you (O Prophet, remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of God's Message" - Quran, 16:82.
- "We have not sent you except to be a mercy for all of humankind. Declare, 'What is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away, then say, 'I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour (Judgment Day) is near or far" - Quran, 21:107-109

Conclusion based on these verses (and there are many more in the Quran): The Prophet's only job was to spread God's message *without* forcing anyone to accept Islam. Those who didn't accept it even after knowing about are to be left to God to handle. Humans have no right to deal with them or to kill them or to punish or mistreat them for being non-Muslims.

Now the hadiths that talk about killing people who refuse to accept Islam (and note the contradictions in them, k?)

- "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action.... Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them...." - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4294.

AHA! Contradiction one! What did the Quran say about spreading God's message to those who don't believe? Did the Quran allow for killing those who reject God's message?

The Prophet then acted upon his word that you MUST invite non-Muslims to Islam before you fight them. So here:

- The Prophet's words (pbuh) in a letter to the kings/emperors of his time near him (the hadith is very long, so I'll paste only the relevant parts, k?)
"... After this, I extend to you the invitation to accept Islam. Embrace Islam and you will be safe. Accept Islam, God will give you double the reward. And if you turn away, upon you will be the sin of your subjects.... If they turn away, you should say that we testify to our being Muslims" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4380.

Now, as we saw, inviting them to Islam before waging a war against them is mandatory. Yet, take a look at this hadith:

"Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before fighting them. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4292.

So, yeah ... I must ask, WHY did it become "unnecessary" to INVITE people to Islam before killing them?

AND (again, this is a long hadith, but I'll paste the necessary part to make my point):

"It has been narrated on the authority of Anas that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) raided Khaibar. One morning we offered prayers in the darkness of early dawn (near Khaibar). Then the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) mounted (his horse). ... When he [the Prophet, pbuh] entered the town, he said: God is Great. Khaibar shall face destruction. When we descend in the city-square of a people, it is a bad day for them who have been warned (and have not taken heed). He said these words thrice. The people of the town had just come out from (their houses) to go about their jobs. They said (in surprise): Muhammad has come. We captured Khaibar by force" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4437.

As if all this isn't enough, get THIS:

Do you know how Abu Jahl and Ka'ab bin Ashraf were killed? The latter was Jew who is said to have some bad things about God, and so the Prophet (pbuh) *supposedly* asked God to kill him. LOL. Does this REALLY sound like the Prophet to you?! And Abu Jahl was just rude and often ridiculed God, the Prophet, other Muslims, and Islam, and so the Prophet once prayed for his death and lo and behold, these two young boys came along and killed him.

(Hadith reference for these 2: Muslim's book on Jihadd (Book 19), hadith #s 4434-4436.)

That's just in terms of jihad and violence. Let's talk about other stuff.

The Quran says: "Whatever of war booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth of it is assigned to God and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives (of the messenger) and the orphans and the poor and the wayfarer" (8:41). (It makes sense why it would talk about war booty; the whole surah is called "War Booty" - al-anfaal)

What does this mean? That whatever the Muslims win during war, 1/5th of it goes to the Prophet (pbuh) and this whole list, correct? Now, what happens when the Prophet passes away? What should he do with his property? One would think whatever belonged to him would naturally go to his family, right?

Wrong.

Hadiths tell us:

"It is narrated on the authority of Urwa b. Zubair who narrated from A'isha that she informed him that Fatima, daughter of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), sent someone to Abu Bakr to demand from him her share of the legacy left by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from what Allah had bestowed upon him at Medina and Fadak and what was left from one-filth of the income (annually received) from Khaibar. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:"We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." ... So Abu Bakr refused to hand over anything from it to Fatima who got angry with Abu Bakr for this reason. She forsook him and did not talk to him until the end of her life. She lived for six months after the death of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, # 4354.

WHY did Abu Bakr do this? Why didn't the Prophet tell Fatima ANNND all of his wives HIMSELF that "prophets don't leave property"? And why the heck is it even taken literally? Why can't we say that by "property," he meant Islam? :S I mean, obviously, Prophets die only to leave an important legacy behind them, right?

Besides, Fatima was married Ali, who was actually very, very poor, perhaps poverty-stricken, even. The property of the Prophet would really have helped them.

Gosh, no wonder many Muslims are SO impractical today. We can just see where we get this impracticality from, can't we?

There are more smaller contradictions, too. Like this.

"Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: I asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the best deed?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is next in goodness?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I further asked, what is next in goodness?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."
(Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 4, Book 52, hadith # 41)

Point: Jihad = the 3rd best deed, coming after Praying and Obeying your parents.

BUT! According to another hadith cited in Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2 "Belief," hadith # 25, Abu Hurairah tells us that the Prophet told HIM that Jihad is the SECOND best thing, coming after belief in Allah and the Prophet. The third best is Hajj. Parents are never mentioned.
"Narrated Abu Huraira:Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." The questioner again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To perform Hajj (Pilgrim age to Mecca)...."

There are many more. The ones I listed above are some I came across while reading the haidth books myself, BUT I see many more listed online as well. Just type in "contradictions in hadiths" or "Contradictions in al-Bukhari" ... really good stuff.

But forget the other stuff -- I'm most interested in why Fatima (r.) was denied her property AND why some hadiths claim that the Prophet marauded down all these innocent non-Muslims just 'cause they didn't accept Islam OR even just because they were not Muslims :S Please, PLEASE explain this to me.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to your responses.

Oh, but what I *don't* look forward to is your sick comments. So if you're just gonna deny all this EVEN THOUGH I've given you references (so you can confirm them yourself - I do hope you have hadith books at home; if not, there are some online, so look 'em up), then thanks a tonnnn for wasting my time, and don't ever bother replying to ANY of my posts. It'll only prove your weakness in faith, k? If not -- meaning, if you're gonna be the type of Muslim you're SUPPOSED to be (respectful in debates, kind, etc.), then I'm sorry for saying this and I hope we can have friendly and harmless talks here and there.

OK coming to ur staement that the prohet did not warn the banu mustaliq and how it was attacked with out warning....WELLL 1st off here is sumthing u missed out in ur post


It was claimed the Muslims heard that the Banu Mustaliq were organizing to fight Mohammed. al-Tabari vol.8 p.51 "[Ibn Ishaq] said, ‘Each transmitted to me part of the report on the Banu al-Mustaliq.’ They said: Word reached the Messenger of God that the Banu Mustaliq were gathering against him under the leadership of al-Harith b. Abi Birar. (Al-Harith was the father of Juwayriyah bt. Al-Harith, [who subsequently became] the wife of the Messenger of God.) When the Messenger of God heard about them, he set out toward them and met them at one of their watering places called al-Muraysi’, near Qudayd toward the coast. The people advanced toward each other and fought fiercely. God put the Banu al-Mustaliq to flight and killed some of them. He gave their children, women, and property to the Messenger of God as booty – God gave them to him as spoil."

as u c the prophet(saw) knew these ppl which U did not no....also u can not question y the proprhet(saw) did sumthing because this is allah's messanger and everything that he does or does not do we must take it 4 example.......read in quran about....surah KAHF verse. 60 to 82 u will read about the story of musa(as) and how sumthings r done 4 THE BETTER OF IT.......as a human sure we might get frustrated and unpateince at times because sumtims u have 2 look beyond wat u want to get the better of it



..And Allah Knows, while you know not.” (2:216) ....

and this surah kahf explains mostly all of ur answer BUT i just wanna ad another hadith to end my response...


Aishah (May Allah be pleased with her) reported: I asked the Prophet (PBUH) "Have you ever experienced a day harder than the day of the battle of Uhud?'' He replied, "Indeed, I experienced them (dangers) at the hands of your people (i.e., the disbelievers from amongst the Quraish tribe). The hardest treatment I met from them was on the Day of `Aqabah when I went to Ibn `Abd Yalil bin `Abd Kulal (who was one of the chiefs of Ta'if) with the purpose of inviting him to Islam, but he made no response (to my call). So I departed with deep distress. I did not recover until I arrived at Qarn ath-Tha`alib. There, I raised my head and saw a cloud which had cast its shadow on me. I saw in it Jibril (Gabriel) (PBUH) who called me and said: `Indeed, Allah, the Exalted, heard what your people said to you and the response they made to you. And He has sent you the angel in charge of the mountains to order him to do to them what you wish.' Then the angel of the mountains called me, greeted me and said: `O Muhammad, Allah listened to what your people had said to you. I am the angel of the mountains, and my Rubb has sent me to you so that you may give me your orders. (I will carry out your orders). If you wish I will bring together the two mountains that stand opposite to each other at the extremities of Makkah to crush them in between.''' But Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "I rather hope that Allah will raise from among their descendants people as will worship Allah the One, and will not ascribe partners to Him (in worship).''
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].


and surly allah knows best what he commanded his messanger to do i hope i have answered ur question and may allah guide us and 4give us all

[Roshina]

KingZazai wrora, your post still doesn't respond to ANY of the contradictions I mentioned in my post, particularly the one that it was necessary to "invite" people to Islam before attacking them but it's not necessary anymore, as I posted above.

Besides, why can't I question hadiths (which in your opinion are what the Prophet did) when they more than clearly contradict the Quran? I showed that as well.

So, clearly, Allah could NOT possibly have "commanded" His messenger to kill all these non-Muslims since ALLAH tells us in the Quran that the Prophet's ONLY job was to spread the message; he was not allowed to use force whatsoever.

We can thus make two conclusions:
1 - The Prophet did something that he was not allowed to do by the Quran (very unlikely, right?)
2 - The hadiths are more important than the Quran (this should NOT be acceptable, I'd think; Quran should be more important than hadiths, since hadiths are passed down from person to person and were the understanding of the narrators' of the Prophet's statements/actions.

Further, did you know that there is a hadith that forbid people to write down what the Prophet was saying or doing? Most likely because the Prophet KNEW that everything he was saying or doing could be taken entirely out of context and might be forced to become a universal standard when it was not his intention.
Here's the full hadith for that:

It was narrated from Abu Saeed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allah said: "Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Quran, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that" (al-Muslim, Book 42, hadith # 5326).

It's difficult to explain this hadith away, since it makes perfect sense why we should NOT universalize and eternalize everything the Prophet did, but at the same time ... we have volumes of hadiths by 6 Hadith compilers! How must we deal with this contradiction?

I've also read of reports in which the first four khalifahs REFUSED to tell people of what the Prophet did because they were like, "If I tell you, you might go and tell everyone else that it's an obligation to do this or that it's not permissible to do such and such." Omar is actually known for having done this -- but then again, Omar is interesting in that he also claimed that one day, Muslims will claim that the verse on stoning does not exist in the Quran when it does (Muslim, Book 17, hadith # 4194; Bukhari, vol. 8, book 36, hadith # 6829).

So, yeah. There goes yet another contradiction :o Ohhh, they never end!

[king-zazai]

KingZazai wrora, your post still doesn't respond to ANY of the contradictions I mentioned in my post, particularly the one that it was necessary to "invite" people to Islam before attacking them but it's not necessary anymore, as I posted above.

Besides, why can't I question hadiths (which in your opinion are what the Prophet did) when they more than clearly contradict the Quran? I showed that as well.

So, clearly, Allah could NOT possibly have "commanded" His messenger to kill all these non-Muslims since ALLAH tells us in the Quran that the Prophet's ONLY job was to spread the message; he was not allowed to use force whatsoever.

We can thus make two conclusions:
1 - The Prophet did something that he was not allowed to do by the Quran (very unlikely, right?)
2 - The hadiths are more important than the Quran (this should NOT be acceptable, I'd think; Quran should be more important than hadiths, since hadiths are passed down from person to person and were the understanding of the narrators' of the Prophet's statements/actions.

Further, did you know that there is a hadith that forbid people to write down what the Prophet was saying or doing? Most likely because the Prophet KNEW that everything he was saying or doing could be taken entirely out of context and might be forced to become a universal standard when it was not his intention.
Here's the full hadith for that:

It was narrated from Abu Saeed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allah said: "Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Quran, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that" (al-Muslim, Book 42, hadith # 5326).

It's difficult to explain this hadith away, since it makes perfect sense why we should NOT universalize and eternalize everything the Prophet did, but at the same time ... we have volumes of hadiths by 6 Hadith compilers! How must we deal with this contradiction?

I've also read of reports in which the first four khalifahs REFUSED to tell people of what the Prophet did because they were like, "If I tell you, you might go and tell everyone else that it's an obligation to do this or that it's not permissible to do such and such." Omar is actually known for having done this -- but then again, Omar is interesting in that he also claimed that one day, Muslims will claim that the verse on stoning does not exist in the Quran when it does (Muslim, Book 17, hadith # 4194; Bukhari, vol. 8, book 36, hadith # 6829).

So, yeah. There goes yet another contradiction :o Ohhh, they never end!

i can prove all of ur so called controdictions but i will just be waisting my time because u dont listen 2 allah's words so that means i shud stop trying 2 convience u that islam HAS NO CONTRIDTIONS----- i do in a way feel sorry 4 u....cause ur so confused hhehe but may allah help u amen...... its truly a shame 2 c sum1 going against islam or the holy prophet(saw) OR even his compainions well last thing i have 2 say is who ever listens 2 u is a fool cause a fool is saying it....im sorry i dont mean fool in a complete bad word :S i hope u no wat im trying 2 say....cause a rightly guided person will not listen 2 U but there r fools everywhere

[Roshina]

i can prove all of ur so called controdictions but i will just be waisting my time because u dont listen 2 allah's words so that means i shud stop trying 2 convience u that islam HAS NO CONTRIDTIONS----- i do in a way feel sorry 4 u....cause ur so confused hhehe but may allah help u amen...... its truly a shame 2 c sum1 going against islam or the holy prophet(saw) OR even his compainions well last thing i have 2 say is who ever listens 2 u is a fool cause a fool is saying it....im sorry i dont mean fool in a complete bad word :S i hope u no wat im trying 2 say....cause a rightly guided person will not listen 2 U but there r fools everywhere

I didn't say the Quran has contradictions. I said hadiths have contradictions. I even proved it to you.

Now, if you can't answer them, that's fine; it's perfectly understandable, but just saying "there are NO contradictions in hadiths" is just unreasonable when I've proven it to you.

But you should answer them, if I may suggest, because maybe it'd help other people understand (if you're SO convinced that I don't listen to the "word of God," lol).

[king-zazai]

I didn't say the Quran has contradictions. I said hadiths have contradictions. I even proved it to you.

Now, if you can't answer them, that's fine; it's perfectly understandable, but just saying "there are NO contradictions in hadiths" is just unreasonable when I've proven it to you.

But you should answer them, if I may suggest, because maybe it'd help other people understand (if you're SO convinced that I don't listen to the "word of God," lol).

your worse than a donkay man anything i say u wont listen cause shaytan is in u already so thats y i dont btoher with ur none sense and man i do feel sorry 4 ur parents i really do wat a ignorant dumb child they have brought up who does not agree with islam khuda tobahhh

[*Mahzala*]

King Zazai: You're stepping out of line quite too frequently now. If you cannot hold a debate, or do not have reasoning or evidence for your beliefs, or cannot mould a basic argument then don't ruin your lack of knowledge with personal attacks. Simply say: I don't know. As they say kana, better to ask a question, asking it makes you look like an idiot for a minute, but not for the rest of your life. You don't have to ask questions, but if you can't answer them, don't let your weakness overcome you. And, your beliefs in Ahadeeth apparently is strong, so let me remind you that the Prophet (SAW) himself has said that if you have nothing good to say, rather keep silent. Practice your beliefs, and what you preach. And one more thing, not this thread, please ... Smile Brother.

Qrratu: Don't sweat, really. Is it really worth the two of you arguing over things you know you will never come to common terms on? Na kana, no pregda marhey. Khpela kha pohege. Clear any misunderstanding and what not by all means, but if the other party is not willing to listen let alone agree, then leave it. Join the recipe threads.

Okay guysies and girlsies, this feature article is due tomorrow. I have completed it, I will share it as soon as I get some feedback from the feauture editors, my peers and my very sweet teacher. I will link you all. Just thought I'd update you

[*Mahzala*]

And one more thing - my angle on it entirely changed after the main person for this article rejected an interview. It's more about the normalisation/centrality of alcohol during on/off campus events and how it is an ongoing problem everywhere!

Boring, I know.

[Roshina]

Qrratu: Don't sweat, really. Is it really worth the two of you arguing over things you know you will never come to common terms on? Na kana, no pregda marhey. Khpela kha pohege. Clear any misunderstanding and what not by all means, but if the other party is not willing to listen let alone agree, then leave it. Join the recipe threads.

lol... you're right, Mesbah! From now on, I'll just ignore posts written by members who seem not to listen (although we're not obligated to agree, we should at least try to listen to the other side's argument).

Manana, guley!

[king-zazai]

King Zazai: You're stepping out of line quite too frequently now. If you cannot hold a debate, or do not have reasoning or evidence for your beliefs, or cannot mould a basic argument then don't ruin your lack of knowledge with personal attacks. Simply say: I don't know. As they say kana, better to ask a question, asking it makes you look like an idiot for a minute, but not for the rest of your life. You don't have to ask questions, but if you can't answer them, don't let your weakness overcome you. And, your beliefs in Ahadeeth apparently is strong, so let me remind you that the Prophet (SAW) himself has said that if you have nothing good to say, rather keep silent. Practice your beliefs, and what you preach. And one more thing, not this thread, please ... Smile Brother.

Qrratu: Don't sweat, really. Is it really worth the two of you arguing over things you know you will never come to common terms on? Na kana, no pregda marhey. Khpela kha pohege. Clear any misunderstanding and what not by all means, but if the other party is not willing to listen let alone agree, then leave it. Join the recipe threads.

Okay guysies and girlsies, this feature article is due tomorrow. I have completed it, I will share it as soon as I get some feedback from the feauture editors, my peers and my very sweet teacher. I will link you all. Just thought I'd update you

i can prove all her "fake acusations" on hadiths very easly when i 1st saw it i knew wat she was taalking about and knew her mistakes but me writing it makes no diffrence it will not change her so no use doing it she will just bring up more and more non sense which i dont want 2 waist time on........c im sorry 2 saY but 1 thing i liked about the taliban is that atleast they did not let nonsense like this happen....women like her wud be beaten cause no1 goes against the quran and sunah and shes just lucky she does not live in afghainstan now no1 wud listen 2 her ganrbage and she wud be put 2 place...actullay i wud like 2 c her making a speech in front of the taliban in aFG HEHEHHEHEHE wow wat a show it wud be hehehehhehehehehehe

[Dinosaur Khan]

That is horrible, you are a fan of taliban?