Alcohol consumption at universities?

[Dinosaur Khan]

@Qrratu
Please read my above quotation carefully.
Your posts are doing more harm than good despite being technically weak bcoz members response is showing that they are convinced that ya alchol has got benifits (many may think no harm in trying it). but if i post very long list of its harms, everybody will be scare to death.
I knew your excellent debating skills but despite that i being a medical student could'nt that & attempted to correct it.

[Son of Mountains]

Wow. Great debate wallah. Our holy Prophet P.B.U.H was not aware of benefits (astaghfar) and in Quran, Allah has allowed to drink in small quantity....i dont understand that why some people try to become extra smart extra intellectual.

[Roshina]

Essentials of pharmacology page 135 "Many clinical studies have shown that moderate alchol drinking prevents coronary heart disease and this even reduces death rate in such patients. But controversy exists about this finding and many authorities think that this decrease in the incidence of coronary heart disease may not be related to the moderate drinking of alchol and other factors may be important"

YES! That was exactly my point. And that's EXACTLY why I asked you to give us the exact quote of your books, man. You said that it was wrong that alcohol has benefits, and I asked you to prove it and you didn't. Instead, the books you named clearly say that drinking alcohol in moderation can reduce death rate in patients with heart disease AND even prevents heart disease.

So, yes. Thanks. Now we're good.

But controversy exists about this finding and many authorities think that this decrease in the incidence of coronary heart disease may not be related to the moderate drinking of alchol and other factors may be important"

Sure, everything's controversial. But at least they admitted that it DOES prevent it. Their putting that before the "or maybe not" says a lot, you know.

@Qrratu
Please read my above quotation carefully.

I did. It said drinking alcohol in moderate amounts prevents heart disease. It's actually MUCH better than saying "it CAN prevent it" or that "it SEEMS to prevent it"; it says "it DOES."

Your posts are doing more harm than good despite being technically weak bcoz members response is showing that they are convinced that ya alchol has got benifits (many may think no harm in trying it). but if i post very long list of its harms, everybody will be scare to death.

"Despite being technically weak," my posts are doing more harm than good? What does that mean? ... How does something that's "technically weak" do "more harm than good"? ... Besides, what is so technically weak about my argument (which is that alcohol DOES have benefits whether you like to believe it or not)?

Well, in every single post of mine in here about alcohol assumption, I have stated that drinking alcohol has more harms than benefits, and the Quran says this as well -- that it has more harms than benefits.

People SHOULD be convinced that it has benefits -- 'cause that's a fact. What they need to do is look at the harms as well, and then make up their own minds about drinking or not drinking.

I knew your excellent debating skills but despite that i being a medical student could'nt that & attempted to correct it.

Correct what? You haven't corrected me yet -- that it has no benefits. If you need more information, though, I'm at CDC right now and can get hold of anyone at any moment. Should I?

[Roshina]

Wow. Great debate wallah. Our holy Prophet P.B.U.H was not aware of benefits (astaghfar) and in Quran, Allah has allowed to drink in small quantity....

First time I hear a Muslim saying that the Quran allows it in moderation Only, remember that when you say something like this, which most people are likely to disagree with, try to give us the Quranic verse(s) you're referring to, mara, so others can check it out for themselves. I know what you're talking about, but I'll let someone else (or you) take the lead.

We had a looooooooooooong discussion in a class about this yesterday. (It's a hadith class I'm taking at my uni.) The topic of alcohol came up, and I told the professor, "Yeeeeeeeahh, let's talk about this. I'm currently involved in a discussion on an online forum with some Muslims, and this one guy said, 'It's wrong that alcohol has any benefits, and before you ask me for evidence and blah blah, I'm a medical student so I know what I'm talking about.'" Everyone thought it was hilarious, though I wanted to say that "yeah, that won't prevent me from asking for evidence still" :D

My point: Discussions on alcohol are very useful. It can at least help us make better arguments and be able to defend them, no? Not just when it comes to this topic but all other topics as well, especially those that pertained to religion (as does this one).

[Roshina]

I believe Islam allows alcohol only when you are about to die.

That's right. EVERYTHING is allowed in Islam when your health or life depends on it. Everything.

... although some Hanafi jurists swould disagree I read in a book called "Reliance of a Traveler" that drinking is haraam/forbidden even if you're dying. lol. But it was funny 'cause it then contradicted itself by saying that only experts on alcohol are allowed to drink it at such a moment (which means it's okay to have "experts who drink a lotta alcohol," whatever that means! Unless it meant that experts would know both harms and benefits and therefore know what they're doing if they drink too much? I onno). So, yeah! Not all would agree, even if they're scholars, lol.

[*Mahzala*]

^ But again, in times like that, when one has to choose from two Haraam's, you choose the one that is less Haraam. A whole different, and very complex topic though.

And Khaney, nothing to forgive, debate awayyyy.

[Son of Mountains]

@Qrratugai
please read my words again Miss.
Its a "tanz" on those extra smart, extra intellegent people who r favoring drinking in small quantity. R u not smart?
I was asking that was Allah not aware if there were any benefits? Why he forbaded? If he forbaded us, then who r we to debate on this topic! Understand?

[Roshina]

^ But again, in times like that, when one has to choose from two Haraam's, you choose the one that is less Haraam.

Indeed. If you've to choose, always try to choose the "lesser evil" -- but then again, people may not always agree on what the "lesser evil" is, and so it all depends on the individuals. The reason jurists have to generalize is to avoid too much chaos and confusion (though they don't succeed much of the time. Meaning, the laws are just there for us to decide who's REALLY a Muslim based on their behavior and thinking and who's not).

So, if one has to choose between drinking and not drinking, one would choose NOT drinking if one knows teeh harms of doing otherwise. I won't say "should."

[Roshina]

@Qrratugai
please read my words again Miss.
Its a "tanz" on those extra smart, extra intellegent people who r favoring drinking in small quantity. R u not smart?
I was asking that was Allah not aware if there were any benefits? Why he forbaded? If he forbaded us, then who r we to debate on this topic! Understand?

I guess I must not be smart by your definition, then, Son of Mountain, because I still don't get your post.

The Quran says alcohol *HAS* benefits but its disadvantages are more than its benefits. That's all I was saying. And that DOES mean that God knows of the benefits AND of the harms. Doesn't it?

[Roshina]

Qratu,
so if I am in the mood for a little alcohol, shouldI drink it?

Who am I to make that decision for you?

do you drink alcohol? What is your PERSONAL view?

You should be able to conclude my "personal view" from my saying: "Alcohol has both harms and benefits, but its benefits are lesser than its harms."

[king-zazai]

Who am I to make that decision for you?


You should be able to conclude my "personal view" from my saying: "Alcohol has both harms and benefits, but its benefits are lesser than its harms."

listen qurtagi watever THERE IS NO HADITH that contradicts another or no say hadith that condraticts quran ok islam is a complete perferct religion its ppl like u that r astray and lost and a seal in the heart ur whole life u will be confused even on day of judgement caue u rejected the truth....execpt on giving dwah this dumb 1 goes and says bad things about islam khuda tobahhh wat has these pashtuns come 2 man.....but plz dont take it the wrong way islams arms r always open i will make duwah allah open ur heart and all those othewr ignorant pashtuns

[Dinosaur Khan]

@Qrattu

Why you split my quote in two???, read it in one piece (You are playing with words). the "only" use of alchol as i have mentioned again and again is sedation. The benifit of it in heart disease that i quoted is controvertial and you should know that theories and controvertial subjects have no importance in field of medicine untill confirmed and proved.

[Roshina]

listen qurtagi watever THERE IS NO HADITH that contradicts another or no say hadith that condraticts quran ok islam is a complete perferct religion its ppl like u that r astray and lost and a seal in the heart ur whole life u will be confused even on day of judgement caue u rejected the truth....execpt on giving dwah this dumb 1 goes and says bad things about islam khuda tobahhh wat has these pashtuns come 2 man.....but plz dont take it the wrong way islams arms r always open i will make duwah allah open ur heart and all those othewr ignorant pashtuns

LMAO!! I am grinning, brother, I'm grinning THIS widely (<-- not a good icon at ALL! I like the ones where ALLL the teeth show!)

Believe me, I know Islam very well Not perfectly or anything, of course, since no one can ever reach that level of understanding of Islam. I mean, it's such a vast culture, field, religion, phenomenon, that it's beyond impossible to grasp all of it as perfectly as it should be understood. But ("alhamdulillah," lol) I'm planing a PhD in it in a year from now, ka khairee, and am currently an Islamic Studies major student :D If your definition of Islam is the one you've been portraying in all these threads of intolerance and cruelty and abuse and name-calling to members who disagree with you (you know, where you told some members that you'll beat them up and how they're "trash-faced" or something like that), then I must say -- I PRAY to be kept FAR, FAR AWAY from that type of Islam and those type of Muslims.

SO don't you worry about me none, little bro

And I'm not confused about my path, my choice of faith, etc. at ALL either. So, really, don't stress yourself with worrying about folks like me. We're fine. In fact, we worry about the future of Islam because of people like you, lacking all necessary knowledge of Islam and the ultimate concepts of the Quran (justice and education/thinking/reasoning/knowledge).

[Roshina]

@Qrattu

Why you split my quote in two???, read it in one piece (You are playing with words). the "only" use of alchol as i have mentioned again and again is sedation. The benifit of it in heart disease that i quoted is controvertial and you should know that theories and controvertial subjects have no importance in field of medicine untill confirmed and proved.

I split it in half and then commented on the controversial part of it as well. Did you forget to read the complete post of mine?

And my other comment was about the Quran and how it says that drinking/alcohol/wine has both harms and benefits. It was just to debunk your claim that drinking has absolutely no benefit (you said that initially, but I can imagine you realize how untrue that is).

[Roshina]

listen qurtagi watever THERE IS NO HADITH that contradicts another or no say hadith that condraticts quran

Really? And what if I give you a ton of hadiths that contradict not only other hadiths but the Quran as well? ... Believe me, I can't possibly run short of those hadiths. But I'd like to know, what happens then?