Alcohol consumption at universities?

[Dinosaur Khan]

@king zazai

Please leave this thread as kids are not supposed to discuss on mature topics. Go to bed baby.

@Qratu
if you read my first post, i have never claimed that alchol has absolutely no benifits. I mentioned in that post that the only benifit of signicficance is its use as sedative in small doses. Why you are not attentive? i have mentioned again and again that it surely has use in sedation.

[Dinosaur Khan]

Here is my first post, in bold described its use

Wrong !
even in small amounts it is not that much useful for health , the only medical use of it is to act as sedative in small doses.

p.s before demanding proof, evidences blah blah from me, keep in mind that i am a medical student who listen and learn from his lectures.

[king-zazai]

LMAO!! I am grinning, brother, I'm grinning THIS widely (<-- not a good icon at ALL! I like the ones where ALLL the teeth show!)

Believe me, I know Islam very well Not perfectly or anything, of course, since no one can ever reach that level of understanding of Islam. I mean, it's such a vast culture, field, religion, phenomenon, that it's beyond impossible to grasp all of it as perfectly as it should be understood. But ("alhamdulillah," lol) I'm planing a PhD in it in a year from now, ka khairee, and am currently an Islamic Studies major student :D If your definition of Islam is the one you've been portraying in all these threads of intolerance and cruelty and abuse and name-calling to members who disagree with you (you know, where you told some members that you'll beat them up and how they're "trash-faced" or something like that), then I must say -- I PRAY to be kept FAR, FAR AWAY from that type of Islam and those type of Muslims.

SO don't you worry about me none, little bro

And I'm not confused about my path, my choice of faith, etc. at ALL either. So, really, don't stress yourself with worrying about folks like me. We're fine. In fact, we worry about the future of Islam because of people like you, lacking all necessary knowledge of Islam and the ultimate concepts of the Quran (justice and education/thinking/reasoning/knowledge).

oooo as long as u pray and 1st u must no da basics u dont even fully belive in the kalima start with that and then move on and i cud not care less wat u r majoring or studying the way u talk u dont even no the 1st thing about islam which is the kalima the sad thing is u read all these islamic thigns and apply nothing 2 it 2 ur heart sory but if u dont ur heart is sealed just like the rest of the fools who dont belive in the real islam

[king-zazai]

I split it in half and then commented on the controversial part of it as well. Did you forget to read the complete post of mine?

And my other comment was about the Quran and how it says that drinking/alcohol/wine has both harms and benefits. It was just to debunk your claim that drinking has absolutely no benefit (you said that initially, but I can imagine you realize how untrue that is).

i mean look how much allah has given u he has gifted u with such skiils and reading and writing and writing so much and so on and yet u dont use it to help this umah yet u do da oppsite khuda tobah...o ya well bring it bring any 2 lets c it??????????????????

[Roshina]

i mean look how much allah has given u he has gifted u with such skiils and reading and writing and writing so much and so on and yet u dont use it to help this umah yet u do da oppsite khuda tobah...o ya well bring it bring any 2 lets c it??????????????????

Little brother! Care to tell me what I'm doing wrong that is the "opposite of helping the Muslim ummah"?

[Roshina]

oooo as long as u pray and 1st u must no da basics u dont even fully belive in the kalima start with that and then move on and i cud not care less wat u r majoring or studying the way u talk u dont even no the 1st thing about islam which is the kalima the sad thing is u read all these islamic thigns and apply nothing 2 it 2 ur heart sory but if u dont ur heart is sealed just like the rest of the fools who dont belive in the real islam

I don't know the kalma? A mighty pathetic misconception, little thingie

The rest of your post wasn't worth reading, so I didn't read it. Just the first line was enough to predict what the rest must be saying.

[king-zazai]

I don't know the kalma? A mighty pathetic misconception, little thingie

The rest of your post wasn't worth reading, so I didn't read it. Just the first line was enough to predict what the rest must be saying.

Allah help ppl like u or eliminate ppl like u cause u all on the wrong path khuda tobahhh so u sayed u pray right???? but yet u defend porkkhan right? and dont sing it bring it SHOW ME ANY HADITH THAT CONTRDICTS QURAN???????????? OR ANOTHER HADITH????????????? MUST BE SAHI

[Roshina]

Allah help ppl like u or eliminate ppl like u cause u all on the wrong path khuda tobahhh so u sayed u pray right???? but yet u defend porkkhan right? and dont sing it bring it SHOW ME ANY HADITH THAT CONTRDICTS QURAN???????????? OR ANOTHER HADITH????????????? MUST BE SAHI

LOL! And you want ME to become a MUSLIM LIKE YOU??? OMG! That would be SUICIDE for me and a shame for the entire world, an insult to all Pukhtuns and Muslims! NEVER! If you want people to follow the path that you've been thrown into, you should at least try to represent Islam a bit better than this, lol. I mean, c'mon, we're adults here. Who talks like that? I don't know if I should pity you or pray for you or just laugh at you . . . oh wait, you need all.

But awwww... I JUST read in this thread what someone wrote to you and I thought it was adorable. Lemme just paste that here:

Why you are on net kid? Where is your mommy and daddy?

LOL! TOTALLY!

As for the contradictions in hadiths, sure. Take a look at the post I'm about to write next (and, yes, they're all authentic).

[Admin Khan]

Professionalism is the key in a decent debate.

I think we are all mature enough here.

[Roshina]

and dont sing it bring it SHOW ME ANY HADITH THAT CONTRDICTS QURAN???????????? OR ANOTHER HADITH????????????? MUST BE SAHI

~salutes~ YES SIR!

Here they are. I'm not sure how many you can handle, but for now, I will give you only a couple and request that you explain them to me because they REALLY baffle my mind, and I've asked a ton of people, but nothing has worked so far. So, please, help me here, kid.

- "Unto you, your religion; unto me, mine" - Quran, 2:256
- "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clear from falsehood" - Quran, 2:256
- "But if they turn away from you (O Prophet, remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of God's Message" - Quran, 16:82.
- "We have not sent you except to be a mercy for all of humankind. Declare, 'What is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away, then say, 'I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour (Judgment Day) is near or far" - Quran, 21:107-109

Conclusion based on these verses (and there are many more in the Quran): The Prophet's only job was to spread God's message *without* forcing anyone to accept Islam. Those who didn't accept it even after knowing about are to be left to God to handle. Humans have no right to deal with them or to kill them or to punish or mistreat them for being non-Muslims.

Now the hadiths that talk about killing people who refuse to accept Islam (and note the contradictions in them, k?)

- "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action.... Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them...." - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4294.

AHA! Contradiction one! What did the Quran say about spreading God's message to those who don't believe? Did the Quran allow for killing those who reject God's message?

The Prophet then acted upon his word that you MUST invite non-Muslims to Islam before you fight them. So here:

- The Prophet's words (pbuh) in a letter to the kings/emperors of his time near him (the hadith is very long, so I'll paste only the relevant parts, k?)
"... After this, I extend to you the invitation to accept Islam. Embrace Islam and you will be safe. Accept Islam, God will give you double the reward. And if you turn away, upon you will be the sin of your subjects.... If they turn away, you should say that we testify to our being Muslims" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4380.

Now, as we saw, inviting them to Islam before waging a war against them is mandatory. Yet, take a look at this hadith:

"Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before fighting them. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4292.

So, yeah ... I must ask, WHY did it become "unnecessary" to INVITE people to Islam before killing them?

AND (again, this is a long hadith, but I'll paste the necessary part to make my point):

"It has been narrated on the authority of Anas that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) raided Khaibar. One morning we offered prayers in the darkness of early dawn (near Khaibar). Then the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) mounted (his horse). ... When he [the Prophet, pbuh] entered the town, he said: God is Great. Khaibar shall face destruction. When we descend in the city-square of a people, it is a bad day for them who have been warned (and have not taken heed). He said these words thrice. The people of the town had just come out from (their houses) to go about their jobs. They said (in surprise): Muhammad has come. We captured Khaibar by force" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4437.

As if all this isn't enough, get THIS:

Do you know how Abu Jahl and Ka'ab bin Ashraf were killed? The latter was Jew who is said to have some bad things about God, and so the Prophet (pbuh) *supposedly* asked God to kill him. LOL. Does this REALLY sound like the Prophet to you?! And Abu Jahl was just rude and often ridiculed God, the Prophet, other Muslims, and Islam, and so the Prophet once prayed for his death and lo and behold, these two young boys came along and killed him.

(Hadith reference for these 2: Muslim's book on Jihadd (Book 19), hadith #s 4434-4436.)

That's just in terms of jihad and violence. Let's talk about other stuff.

The Quran says: "Whatever of war booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth of it is assigned to God and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives (of the messenger) and the orphans and the poor and the wayfarer" (8:41). (It makes sense why it would talk about war booty; the whole surah is called "War Booty" - al-anfaal)

What does this mean? That whatever the Muslims win during war, 1/5th of it goes to the Prophet (pbuh) and this whole list, correct? Now, what happens when the Prophet passes away? What should he do with his property? One would think whatever belonged to him would naturally go to his family, right?

Wrong.

Hadiths tell us:

"It is narrated on the authority of Urwa b. Zubair who narrated from A'isha that she informed him that Fatima, daughter of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), sent someone to Abu Bakr to demand from him her share of the legacy left by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from what Allah had bestowed upon him at Medina and Fadak and what was left from one-filth of the income (annually received) from Khaibar. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:"We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." ... So Abu Bakr refused to hand over anything from it to Fatima who got angry with Abu Bakr for this reason. She forsook him and did not talk to him until the end of her life. She lived for six months after the death of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, # 4354.

WHY did Abu Bakr do this? Why didn't the Prophet tell Fatima ANNND all of his wives HIMSELF that "prophets don't leave property"? And why the heck is it even taken literally? Why can't we say that by "property," he meant Islam? :S I mean, obviously, Prophets die only to leave an important legacy behind them, right?

Besides, Fatima was married Ali, who was actually very, very poor, perhaps poverty-stricken, even. The property of the Prophet would really have helped them.

Gosh, no wonder many Muslims are SO impractical today. We can just see where we get this impracticality from, can't we?

There are more smaller contradictions, too. Like this.

"Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: I asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the best deed?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is next in goodness?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I further asked, what is next in goodness?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."
(Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 4, Book 52, hadith # 41)

Point: Jihad = the 3rd best deed, coming after Praying and Obeying your parents.

BUT! According to another hadith cited in Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2 "Belief," hadith # 25, Abu Hurairah tells us that the Prophet told HIM that Jihad is the SECOND best thing, coming after belief in Allah and the Prophet. The third best is Hajj. Parents are never mentioned.
"Narrated Abu Huraira:Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." The questioner again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To perform Hajj (Pilgrim age to Mecca)...."

There are many more. The ones I listed above are some I came across while reading the haidth books myself, BUT I see many more listed online as well. Just type in "contradictions in hadiths" or "Contradictions in al-Bukhari" ... really good stuff.

But forget the other stuff -- I'm most interested in why Fatima (r.) was denied her property AND why some hadiths claim that the Prophet marauded down all these innocent non-Muslims just 'cause they didn't accept Islam OR even just because they were not Muslims :S Please, PLEASE explain this to me.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to your responses.

Oh, but what I *don't* look forward to is your sick comments. So if you're just gonna deny all this EVEN THOUGH I've given you references (so you can confirm them yourself - I do hope you have hadith books at home; if not, there are some online, so look 'em up), then thanks a tonnnn for wasting my time, and don't ever bother replying to ANY of my posts. It'll only prove your weakness in faith, k? If not -- meaning, if you're gonna be the type of Muslim you're SUPPOSED to be (respectful in debates, kind, etc.), then I'm sorry for saying this and I hope we can have friendly and harmless talks here and there.

[Dinosaur Khan]

@Qrratu
I was very curious about the Quranic verse you quoted. I then asked for a Quran with translation from my friend. the translation is in urdu by maulana ameen ahsan islahi (a famous scholar. here is translation in urdu of verse 2:218
"wu tum se sharab aur juway k mutalik sawal karte hain. keh du, inn dono chizo k andar barha gunha he aur logo k liye kuch faiday b hain, lekin inn ka gunha inn k faiday se barrh kar he"

[king-zazai]

~salutes~ YES SIR!

Here they are. I'm not sure how many you can handle, but for now, I will give you only a couple and request that you explain them to me because they REALLY baffle my mind, and I've asked a ton of people, but nothing has worked so far. So, please, help me here, kid.

- "Unto you, your religion; unto me, mine" - Quran, 2:256
- "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clear from falsehood" - Quran, 2:256
- "But if they turn away from you (O Prophet, remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of God's Message" - Quran, 16:82.
- "We have not sent you except to be a mercy for all of humankind. Declare, 'What is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away, then say, 'I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour (Judgment Day) is near or far" - Quran, 21:107-109

Conclusion based on these verses (and there are many more in the Quran): The Prophet's only job was to spread God's message *without* forcing anyone to accept Islam. Those who didn't accept it even after knowing about are to be left to God to handle. Humans have no right to deal with them or to kill them or to punish or mistreat them for being non-Muslims.

Now the hadiths that talk about killing people who refuse to accept Islam (and note the contradictions in them, k?)

- "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action.... Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them...." - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4294.

AHA! Contradiction one! What did the Quran say about spreading God's message to those who don't believe? Did the Quran allow for killing those who reject God's message?

The Prophet then acted upon his word that you MUST invite non-Muslims to Islam before you fight them. So here:

- The Prophet's words (pbuh) in a letter to the kings/emperors of his time near him (the hadith is very long, so I'll paste only the relevant parts, k?)
"... After this, I extend to you the invitation to accept Islam. Embrace Islam and you will be safe. Accept Islam, God will give you double the reward. And if you turn away, upon you will be the sin of your subjects.... If they turn away, you should say that we testify to our being Muslims" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4380.

Now, as we saw, inviting them to Islam before waging a war against them is mandatory. Yet, take a look at this hadith:

"Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before fighting them. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4292.

So, yeah ... I must ask, WHY did it become "unnecessary" to INVITE people to Islam before killing them?

AND (again, this is a long hadith, but I'll paste the necessary part to make my point):

"It has been narrated on the authority of Anas that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) raided Khaibar. One morning we offered prayers in the darkness of early dawn (near Khaibar). Then the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) mounted (his horse). ... When he [the Prophet, pbuh] entered the town, he said: God is Great. Khaibar shall face destruction. When we descend in the city-square of a people, it is a bad day for them who have been warned (and have not taken heed). He said these words thrice. The people of the town had just come out from (their houses) to go about their jobs. They said (in surprise): Muhammad has come. We captured Khaibar by force" - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4437.

As if all this isn't enough, get THIS:

Do you know how Abu Jahl and Ka'ab bin Ashraf were killed? The latter was Jew who is said to have some bad things about God, and so the Prophet (pbuh) *supposedly* asked God to kill him. LOL. Does this REALLY sound like the Prophet to you?! And Abu Jahl was just rude and often ridiculed God, the Prophet, other Muslims, and Islam, and so the Prophet once prayed for his death and lo and behold, these two young boys came along and killed him.

(Hadith reference for these 2: Muslim's book on Jihadd (Book 19), hadith #s 4434-4436.)

That's just in terms of jihad and violence. Let's talk about other stuff.

The Quran says: "Whatever of war booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth of it is assigned to God and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives (of the messenger) and the orphans and the poor and the wayfarer" (8:41). (It makes sense why it would talk about war booty; the whole surah is called "War Booty" - al-anfaal)

What does this mean? That whatever the Muslims win during war, 1/5th of it goes to the Prophet (pbuh) and this whole list, correct? Now, what happens when the Prophet passes away? What should he do with his property? One would think whatever belonged to him would naturally go to his family, right?

Wrong.

Hadiths tell us:

"It is narrated on the authority of Urwa b. Zubair who narrated from A'isha that she informed him that Fatima, daughter of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), sent someone to Abu Bakr to demand from him her share of the legacy left by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from what Allah had bestowed upon him at Medina and Fadak and what was left from one-filth of the income (annually received) from Khaibar. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:"We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." ... So Abu Bakr refused to hand over anything from it to Fatima who got angry with Abu Bakr for this reason. She forsook him and did not talk to him until the end of her life. She lived for six months after the death of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." - Sahih al-Muslim, Book 19, # 4354.

WHY did Abu Bakr do this? Why didn't the Prophet tell Fatima ANNND all of his wives HIMSELF that "prophets don't leave property"? And why the heck is it even taken literally? Why can't we say that by "property," he meant Islam? :S I mean, obviously, Prophets die only to leave an important legacy behind them, right?

Besides, Fatima was married Ali, who was actually very, very poor, perhaps poverty-stricken, even. The property of the Prophet would really have helped them.

Gosh, no wonder many Muslims are SO impractical today. We can just see where we get this impracticality from, can't we?

There are more smaller contradictions, too. Like this.

"Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: I asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the best deed?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is next in goodness?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I further asked, what is next in goodness?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."
(Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 4, Book 52, hadith # 41)

Point: Jihad = the 3rd best deed, coming after Praying and Obeying your parents.

BUT! According to another hadith cited in Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2 "Belief," hadith # 25, Abu Hurairah tells us that the Prophet told HIM that Jihad is the SECOND best thing, coming after belief in Allah and the Prophet. The third best is Hajj. Parents are never mentioned.
"Narrated Abu Huraira:Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." The questioner again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To perform Hajj (Pilgrim age to Mecca)...."

There are many more. The ones I listed above are some I came across while reading the haidth books myself, BUT I see many more listed online as well. Just type in "contradictions in hadiths" or "Contradictions in al-Bukhari" ... really good stuff.

But forget the other stuff -- I'm most interested in why Fatima (r.) was denied her property AND why some hadiths claim that the Prophet marauded down all these innocent non-Muslims just 'cause they didn't accept Islam OR even just because they were not Muslims :S Please, PLEASE explain this to me.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to your responses.

Oh, but what I *don't* look forward to is your sick comments. So if you're just gonna deny all this EVEN THOUGH I've given you references (so you can confirm them yourself - I do hope you have hadith books at home; if not, there are some online, so look 'em up), then thanks a tonnnn for wasting my time, and don't ever bother replying to ANY of my posts. It'll only prove your weakness in faith, k? If not -- meaning, if you're gonna be the type of Muslim you're SUPPOSED to be (respectful in debates, kind, etc.), then I'm sorry for saying this and I hope we can have friendly and harmless talks here and there.

ok lets make a deal if i answer ur questions wud u belive in wat i belive??? and u wont ever question the holy prohet(saw) and that there is no god but allah and u will belive in his books angels and his apostles and in allah alone???? AND that from this day on all u will do is say good things about islam and inshalah on the straight path and use ur talent 2 spread islam?????? is it a deal????

[Roshina]

ok lets make a deal if i answer ur questions wud u belive in wat i belive??? and u wont ever question the holy prohet(saw) and that there is no god but allah and u will belive in his books angels and his apostles and in allah alone???? AND that from this day on all u will do is say good things about islam and inshalah on the straight path and use ur talent 2 spread islam?????? is it a deal????

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... this isn't about what YOU believe and what *I* believe, bro. And, EW! No way! :S I don't wanna believe like you. I don't wanna come on an online forum and yell at people who I don't agree with and damn them to hell and call them non-Muslims just because they do stuff you think they shouldn't be doing and curse at them and threaten them by telling them I'll PERSONALLY come to their house and beat them up and so on. Sorry, this is just not how I do it, and if THIS is what your beliefs are, I pray I be kept far, FAR away from them. In fact, as I said to you elsewhere, I would MUCH rather be in HELL with people like me (who question, think, and choose for themselves) than to be in HEAVEN with people like YOU (who don't have the power to think, insult anyone their beliefs aren't compatible with, lack all knowledge of debating, have still not been taught how to respect others, and so on).

I don't question the Prophet. I question what i read in the hadiths, which are written by men. I question what I read in the Quran when I read its translations and explanations and read other translations and explanations and note that they conflict with each other -- mind you, scholars NEVER agree on ANYTHING, k? So that's what I'm talk about.

Where have I said anything bad about Islam?

And what kind of a deal is this? LOL You want to silence me? Sorry, that's not gonna work for someone who wants to study Islam to understand it better.

Either way, you haven't answered my question. I'm reading up on them, but so far, I'm noticing that these questions always evaded, and no one wants to talk about them.

Also, I have NO intention of spreading Islam, whatever that means. I believe in doing good, speaking the truth, getting an excelelnt education, and using my education to help people who need help AND to educate others. If that's gonna help me spread Islam, so be it; if not, so be it. Sorry to disappoint you, but I believe people need to study all religions before they settle for ONE. That way, they chose the religion themselves *upon serious contemplation* and didn't just get "lucky" by being born into it.

Kha, having said that, I'm waiting for the answers Whenever you have time, k? Don't burden yourself. If we don't get an answer for these questions in OUR generation, it's not a big deal; it's been a depressing deal in Islamic Scholarship since the time hadith science became a significant field in Islamic and Religious Studies.

[Master Khan]

sirf Naalatian insanan sharaab ski.
may Allah protect us from this shamful act.

[Roshina]

@Qrratu
I was very curious about the Quranic verse you quoted. I then asked for a Quran with translation from my friend. the translation is in urdu by maulana ameen ahsan islahi (a famous scholar. here is translation in urdu of verse 2:218
"wu tum se sharab aur juway k mutalik sawal karte hain. keh du, inn dono chizo k andar barha gunha he aur logo k liye kuch faiday b hain, lekin inn ka gunha inn k faiday se barrh kar he"

Why ask your friends for the translation? Why not look it up yourself? Translations for the Quran are available in many, many languages online nowadays. It's available in Arabic as well; just type in "Quran in Ararbic" in any search engine.

Now, have you read the Arabic word for what they translated to "gunah" in Urdu?

The Arabic goes:



يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَإِثْمُهُمَآ أَكْبَرُ مِن نَّفْعِهِمَا وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ مَاذَا يُنفِقُونَ قُلِ الْعَفْوَ كَذَلِكَ يُبيِّنُ اللّهُ لَكُمُ الآيَاتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَفَكَّرُونَ

The Arabic term, we see, is إِثْمٌ (ithm,translated to "sin" or "gunah" or "disadvantages" or "harms"). Now, guess what Arabic word is used as its opposite: " مَنَافِعُ" (manafi', translated to "faida" or "profit" or "benefits"). One MUST ask: Is "sin" the opposite of "benefit"? No, it's not. That's why some translations use "harms" instead of "sin."

It's also more than possible that the Arabic term "ithm" is one of those words that mean ONE thing in one context and something else in another context (we see this happening with words like dharaba, nushuz, iqaama, rijal, and others), and that's one of the reasons why this verse is bothersome for many scholars and continues to be open to interpretation. It's one of those where people have written and continue writing their PhD theses on them.

This is why it's crucial to look at MORE than one translation and not just one -- and in many different languages (hence, the more languages you know, the better). It's ALSO possible that the term ithm just doesn't have a perfectly equivalent word in the English language, and so the word that the main translator, who was then emulated by most others after him, used was "sin," which is why it makes one raise an eyebrow when the entire verse is read in context along with the other 2 verses on wine/drinking.

Also, did you know that according to Hanafi law, drinking alcohol made of DATE-win is perfectly allowed? :O Or other non-intoxicating increments of other alcoholic beverages ... including wine that is made out of honey or grains or something like this. I just discovered this yesterday, and the book I saw it in, which is on Hanafi law, is at home so I can't tell you the page number and all. But it should be online, 'cause I slightly remembering being told this by someone else before.