French police corner Al-Qaeda suspect after shootings

[RevolutionThroughReason]

you clearly dont know what you are talking about ,now you are jumping to claiming them being pakistani deobandi inspired.
they dont need green lights from deobandis or wahabis to defend their country and you holding a nato/american red light isnt working.you can cling on all the western propaganda you want
but the fact remains that Afghan civilians support them and not you or your beloved america.
the only reason you know is that it is used in your screenname and i must say it is very unreasonable of you to do that since you know no logic or reason when it comes to Afghanistan and its people.
fro example yout hink they are deobandi inspired and than go to say no wahabi inspired.
The truth is surely on my side and only western propaganda is what you rely on.
you cant speak pashto,dari or urdu ,what makes you think you anything about the place except from your america news channels.
like i said your tactics are the same as soldat boy,you drop alot of propaganda and lies and wish us to be busy refuting them while you are out there making up more lies.

You need green lights to perform suicide bombings and told it is ok to do this even in the presence of a Muslim populace, otherwise the fact that you're killing Muslims in the process becomes irrevocably problematic.

Repeating an already falsified narrative as if it were true doesn't mean it is; I have already defused your premise that they're legitimate resistance. You don't have that to fall back on.

You keep grasping for irrelevancies but the stark reality still stare you in the face

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Truth does not pick a side, it is us who choose or not choose the side of truth

Actually Truth does pick a side it picks the side which it affirms.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The Taliban is not a unified force, every area has a local emir that just fight under the taliban flag. Afghansitan is in a chaotic state and their are many groups who operate, some for the interests for the afghan people and some are working agaisnt the interests of the afghan people. There are many ISI assasins that kill good people to keep its strategic depth. There is too much evidence that suggest that the haqquanis work strictly for ISI interests and not for the afghan peoples interests.

Right now the average afghan blames the foreign troop presence for this chaotic state even though the foreign troops maybe or may not be the cause, that is just the way the average afghan sees it. Once the foreign troop presence dissapears, then they will shift blame to people that are working against the afghan peoples interests.

The world is witness to it when the Taliban came down from Kandahar and swooped through the country like wild fire because the warlords were not working for the interests of the people. The Taliban did change its peaceful message of bringing security and bannishing the warlords at the beginning and took a more extremist side towards the end, I dont know why but their downfall happened so quickly becasue they were too extreme.

Do they all agree to the Amiriyah of Mullah Omar and that his commands supercedes theirs?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

dont worry there is a tinfoil hat on the presidnetial race,

you can't think straight and are spun in an emotional and theatrical whirlwind. Even if I m a pervert as you claim, not sure what you're even basing this on, at least I am not ding something wrong and evil while claiming it is the law of God, such people are actually worse than an adulterer in Islam and ae of the worst of hypocrites according to Islamic Law.

do you even know what you're saying? You say someone who takes evidence as "truth" is not a critical thinker, but somehow when you manufacture some narrative or regurgitate a narrative that you take on some weird Tribalized notion of "scouts honor" and a bunch of personalized anecdotal claims, this is critical thinking? You have the whole structure of reasoned analysis upside down.

This claim that being labeeled a "Tin Foil Hat" wearer as some association with right wing republicans IS emotional black mail. In fact it was wrong, because Tin Foil Hat wearer was actually coined as a reference to Bushian type Right Wingers, who believed the Government was infiltrated by commies, and were brainwashing the populace via mind control through TV sets. If you only had a clue what you're talking about instead of pandering whatever scapegoat and excuse you have memorized. You use the "if it doesn't say nice things about the Taliban then it is propaganda" ad-nauseum.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

you havent proven any thing all you do is use your typical american tactics on us,"oh they behead little girls who want to go to school" "oh they are throwing acid at women faces,they hate the women" "oh they blow up school"

bottom line is an Afghan in a village is more up to date than you will ever be with your arrogant ignorant american ass.

Tell your connections in the Taliban to stop taking credit for those things; they're the ones who boast about it with smiles on their faces

[RevolutionThroughReason]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
YOU ARE GOOD FOR LAUGHS.
According to you Afghans who knwo the thinsg in detail arent relevant and a propaganda book written by a USAID employee is.
you are such a big loser.

whos your next big shot?
khalid husseini?

The guy isn't a scholar, so how can it be relevant? Your argument is ad-hominem which makes it a logical fallacy. if that was the case then the Taliban are even more culpable because they took money from Bush for the poppy fields destruction.

Your rebuttals are always logically flawed.

[khushal]

Do they all agree to the Amiriyah of Mullah Omar and that his commands supercedes theirs?

I doubt it, they all fight for different reasons. There are many criminal elements including druglords, kidnapping gangs, extortion groups that fly under the taliban flag. Some fight to protect their criminal enterprise or their illigal investments.

If Omar signs a peace treaty tommorrow with the Afghan government and NATO, that will not guarantee that the fighting will stop and Omar know this. When Haqqani was appraoched witha peace deal, he snubbed it because they both know that they dont really have the power to stop the fighting. The main reason they give for not agreeing to peace is that foreign forces must leave first. They perfectly know that most people are fighting the foreign forces.
If you look at history, when the soviets left Afghansitan, most fighters laid down their arms and returned to their villages not because a peace treaty was signed but becasue the foreign troops left. Najib regime did not fall, it only fell after the Soviet fell when the aid stopped coming in. They were not fighting for Hekmatyar, they were fighting to get rid of the foreign troops.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

all you can do is talk alot of ****
shoudlnt you be burning some Qurans because you were mad at the "savage" reaction of Afghans against your troops?

why would i believe someone who says that droping an atomic bombs on Afghans woudl be mercy killing,you care for Afghans? yeah right.

Talk about not staying on topic, you have a hard time coping with truth, your heroes are just as corrupt and perverse as the American Military.

[khushal]

http://books.google.com/books?id=wR-...aliban&f=false

This book only confirms that the TAliban are not controlled by the Saudis since they denied their request for the handover of OBL. It basically tells us that the Taliban were desperate for financial aid which any ruler in Kabul would be as long as the country is landlocked. Not handing OBL over just confirms they are protecting their sovereignty

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Indeed, it is the height of hubris and insincerity of those who brandish flags that say 'Allah Akbar" or parade around as if they represent Islam are champions of the Shari'ah or the normative principles of Islam when in fact the ideas they hold are in blatant conflict with Islam.

Examine some of the absurd statements being made here on this thread and the audacity they have in accusing others of hypocrisy.

The Qur'an itself says

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors." (Qur'an 2:190)

This is an explicit Law enshrined in the Shari'ah, implicating that innocent children are never legitimate targets no matter what.How this lot attempts to shift blame, divert focus and even exonerate the acts is or that they don't feel sorry for it. While these guys claim they stand for Shari'ah; if they cared about Shari'ah, they should be the FIRST to condemn such things zealously on the grounds of breaking Shari'ah. And yet some of these ndividuals from this same crowd who say that innocent Muslim civilians are not killed, will go as far as state that Muslims should be killed if they don't comply with the Saudi Wahhabist conception of Shari'ah.

As for the person who infers hypocrisy based on proportionality, If this is the case then this Clause would fall on you, when have you ever condemned the acts of murderers when they kill Muslim civilians in a suicide attack, where is your outrage there? More over your claim of proportionality itself is wrong since #1; you have not done an actual empirical analysis to support this #2 There is no link between proportion of condemnation and support if BOTH have been condemned. In Summary, the claim is baseless.

One of them stated recently, two wrongs don't make a right, and yet they feel justified in their wrong despite it going against the very Shari'ah they claim to advocate. While they go around accusing others of hypocrisy; the REAL Hypocrites, are themselves.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This book only confirms that the TAliban are not controlled by the Saudis since they denied their request for the handover of OBL. It basically tells us that the Taliban were desperate for financial aid which any ruler in Kabul would be as long as the country is landlocked. Not handing OBL over just confirms they are protecting their sovereignty

It also confirms that the Saudi Wahhabis molded their ideology and leadership structure and that the Taliban were and I quote "following Wahhabi principles". Just because they wouldn't hand over Bin Laden doesn't change that, because he too was friends with these guys.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

who said you need ot be a scholar to knwo whats going on?
who told you this?



]

Because we mentioned scholars and how Saudi Scholars have sway in indoctrinating the Taliban. You're on a different topic.

[khushal]

It also confirms that the Saudi Wahhabis molded their ideology and leadership structure and that the Taliban were and I quote "following Wahhabi principles". Just because they wouldn't hand over Bin Laden doesn't change that, because he too was friends with these guys.

Any governmnet in Kabul as long as its landlocked would be molded by foreign interests. It is completely impossible to break this mold until pakistan is eliminated. hence the reason why any governmnet wheather TAliban or KArzai, or najib etc would be branded as puppets. Afghans have to realize this and stop fighting amongst each other and unite to break themselves free.

[DaMalakandGhar]

TOULOUSE: French police laid siege Wednesday to an apartment block where a self-declared al Qaeda militant who boasted of having “brought France to its knees” with a wave of deadly attacks was holed up.
Prosecutors said suspect Mohamed Merah, a 23-year-old Frenchman of Algerian descent, had fought off several police assaults on his flat and bragged to negotiators of having been trained by al Qaeda on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
“He expressed no regret apart from not having had enough time to kill more victims and even boasted of having brought France to its knees,” France’s top anti-terror prosecutor Francois Molins told reporters.
Molins said Merah had claimed responsibility for three cold-blooded shootings over the previous 10 days in which three French paratroopers, three Jewish children and a teacher were killed, shocking the nation.
He claimed to be avenging Palestinian deaths and opposing the French military’s involvement in Afghanistan and France’s ban on full-face veils.
Molins said the suspect had shot and wounded two elite officers after police first raided the apartment building in the southwestern city of Toulouse before dawn.
“Mohamed Merah explained that he belonged to al Qaeda. He explained he had been trained by al Qaeda in the Pakistani-Afghanistan region in Waziristan,” Molins told reporters in Toulouse, scene of two of the shootings.
Waziristan is a tribal area straddling the Afghan-Pakistani border which is known as a haven for militants — including al Qaeda militants — connected to Taliban guerrillas fighting in both countries.
Molins said the suspect had gone to the region twice and on one occasion had been arrested by Afghan police and handed over to US army troops, who put him on a flight back to France.
Does not have a suicidal spirit: Anti-terror prosecutor Molins
“He said he does not have a suicidal spirit, he did not have a martyr’s soul, he preferred to kill and remain alive,” said Molins, adding that the killer had claimed to have always acted alone.
But Interior Minister Claude Gueant said the gunman had said that he received orders from Al-Qaeda for the attack.
“He explained how he received instructions from al Qaeda during his stay in Pakistan, how he had even been suggested to carry out a suicide mission and refused, but accepted to carry out a general mission to commit an attack in France,” Gueant told TF1 television.
Police and prosecutors said they had arrested Merah’s mother, brother and his brother’s girlfriend as part of the inquiry. Sources said the suspect had been known to the domestic security service for some years.
After the failed police assault on the first floor flat in Toulouse where Merah was living, the two sides settled down to an armed siege. After nine hours other residents were evacuated from the building.
Merah said he would surrender in the course of the evening but an AFP journalist reported that street lighting was switched off in the besieged neighbourhood at around 9:00 pm (2000 GMT), in a move that could be in anticipation of an assault.
President Nicolas Sarkozy, who is running for re-election in an April-May vote, told religious representatives at a meeting in a police station near the siege site that the gunman had planned to carry out another attack Wednesday.
Molins told reporters that Merah had chosen two Toulouse policemen to target for future assassination and planned to kill another soldier.
Gueant said the suspect was thought to be armed with a Kalashnikov assault rifle, a Mini-Uzi 9mm machine pistol and other handguns, but had thrown out a .45 pistol used in the seven murders.
He also defended French law enforcement from criticism that because of his alleged links to extremists the shooter should have been intercepted earlier.
“In France you do not get sent to prison for professing strange or extremist ideas,” Gueant told AFP.
He said Merah and other known extremists in the region “had never shown any behaviour that led us to believe they would engage in criminal acts.”
The siege came as the Jewish victims of the attacks were being buried in Jerusalem and two of the soldiers were being laid to rest, one in France and one in Morocco.
The shootings began on March 11, when a paratrooper of North African origin arranged to meet a man in Toulouse to sell him a scooter.
A message sent from the suspect’s brother’s IP address was used to set up an appointment to inspect the bike, an appointment at which paratrooper Imad Ibn Ziaten was subsequently killed, police said.
Four days later three more paratroopers from another regiment were gunned down, two of them fatally, in the same fashion in a street in the nearby garrison town of Montauban.
The pair — Corporal Abel Chennouf, 25, and Private First Class Mohammed Legouade, 23, — were also French soldiers of North African Arab origin.
Then on Monday the shooter, again wearing a motorcycle helmet and riding a scooter, attacked the Ozar Hatorah Jewish school in Toulouse, killing a religious studies teacher, his toddler sons and a seven-year-old girl.
Sarkozy and several rival candidates for the presidency attended a memorial ceremony for the slain soldiers at their barracks in Montauban.
“A French soldier knows death and knows how to look it in the face, but the death our men met was not the death for which they were prepared. It was not death on the field of battle but a terrorist execution,” Sarkozy said at the solemn service in the base of the 17th Parachute Engineering Regiment.
Sarkozy later returned to Paris, where his office said US President Barack Obama had called to offer his condolences and that “France and the United States are more determined than ever to fight together against terrorist barbarism.”

http://tribune.com.pk/story/353479/besieged-al-qaeda-gunman-claims-to-having-trained-in-waziristan/#comment-622312

[Manzareh]

Start another thread if you want to talk about Iraq.

I'm in two minds about whether capital punishment should be used in this case.

These sorts of people are more dangerous to Muslims than others.

i defo agree with that.