Afghan police pledge justice for Taliban stoning

[ScimitarXEdge]

with regards to crimes such as murder, thievery, etc. there is room for alternative compensation and leniency considering individual circumstances.

as far as adultery is concerned, when it is proven to have occured, the due punishment is a death sentence. what part of that is difficult to comprehend?

The fact that this is completely not in line with Islamic Fiqh and the Faqih understanding of Islamic Penal Code.

[qunduz92]

"Say (O Muhammad): ‘if you (truly) love Allah, follow me! Allah will then love you and forgive your sins.’ And Allah is All Forgiving, All Merciful."} (Sura Al Imraan ayah #31)

There will be a man with full stomach, reclining on his pillow, who will hear a command from me and say, "Let the judge between us (in this matter) be Allah's Book: we obey whetever we find in it." [Know that] indeed, I have been given the Book and, with it, that which is similar to it (the Sunnah)." (Ahmad, Abu Dawud Vol. IV, p. 200, Saheeh ul-Jaami, Ibn Hajar, al-Isaba, Vol. I, p. 488)

Al-Tirmidhi reported from Abu Raafi’ and others that the Prophet (SAW) said: “I do not want to see any one of you reclining on his couch and, when he hears of my instructions or prohibitions, saying ‘I don’t accept it; we didn’t find any such thing in the Book of Allaah.’” Abu ‘Eesaa said: This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. (See Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Shaakir edition, no. 2663).

Al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah(RAA) reportedthat the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur’aan? I tell you, by Allah, that I have warnedand commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.” (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitaabal-Khiraj wa’l-imaarah wa’l-fay’).

"Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah you have a excellent example (to follow) for him who hopes in (the meeting with) Allaah and the Last Day and remembers Allaah much." (33:21)

"Let those who oppose the Messenger’s order beware of a fitnah (trial) to befall them, or a painful torment to be inflicted upon them." (24:63)

[qunduz92]

You're comprehension here is clearly obtuse.

We're not denying the application of stoning, what we are denying is that this application was done without any assessment of nuanced features and whether it was advocated without any respects to possible reversion to clemency.

The Taliban understanding of Shari'ah is completely lacking of nuanced understanding and hence why they misapply Islamic rulings in such a negligent manner; on top of all their other stupidity like suicide bombings and obsessions over beard length.

The proof of this is how the Taliban shot this woman after after she survived the stoning. This is absurd, if she survived the stoning, she cannot be killed after that. This beyond the bounds.

This is not determining their guilt. If they were guilty and it was proved without a reasonable doubt that they were motivated by evil intentions; then by all means enact Allah(swt)'s law; but this is precisely why in respects to such acts Islamic Penal Code requires every stone to be uncovered in determining whether it is legitimate to be applied. Not every case is the same.

What youre doing is precisely why I'm calling out your arguments as fraudulent representations of Islam is because you're corrupting the actual nuanced assessments and details of Islam, especially in respects to how it applies it's penal code.

You accused me of Kufr, I'm merely reflecting your accusations based on a more detailed understanding of what Kufr represents. So please don't contradict yourself.

You know nothing about Islam except absurd Kharij doctrines.

your unnecessary verbiage and beating around the bush is evidence to the fact that your argument holds no merit and that you argue without an islamically factual basis.

you have not provided me any evidence which conflicts with the legitimacy of capital punishment for those found by an islamic governing body to be guilty of extra-marital relations. rather, you espouse un-called for suspicion. once the matter regarding the prescribed punishment's authenticity was made clear to you, you begin to doubt the verdict altogether even while you were not present. you know nothing about with which methods the case was confirmed by the 'alims, and therefore have no authority to claim the guilty were wrongfullly punished. so what are you trying to say? why are you in such internal tumult and doubt?

Allah (swt) tells us in the Qur'an that it is a crime to be suspicious of Muslims without any regard for reality. that is where overlooking comes forth. you are doing exactly what you are trying to denounce (in the wrong context of course).

Allah says in the Qur'an al shareef:

O you who believe, avoid (indulging in) much suspicion; truly some suspicion is a sin. (49:12)

this means that, without any evidence to support your view, you have no right to accuse your muslim brother of hidden, evil motives and wrongfulness. to do so, is sinful and a lie on your part.

you keep going on and on, whining about the shari'at as was practiced by the messenger of Allah (swt) yet you have failed to provide anything to support for your erroneous views which, in my opinion, are merely the result of emotional unrest. heavy discrimination of the islamic justice system is a habit most identifiable with westerners who change their illicit partners every few days and whose normal, everyday life is composed of the indulgence in sins considered severe in islam.

lastly, i never accused anybody of kufr but i gave a general warning saying that to argue against the sunnah of the prophet (saw) is akin to kufr based upon the hadith of the prophet (Saw) wherein he states "Those that turn away from my Sunnah (my ways) are not of me" (Bukhari)

you, on the other hand, on emotional grounds, retorted and labeled me a kafir due to me supporting of the sunnah of rasulullah (saw).

you are severely misguided.

many of us wake up to church bells instead of the adhan, that is why the islam they practice seems distant and strange. our opinions are formed as a result of western indoctrination and brainwashing.

[ScimitarXEdge]

your unnecessary verbiage and beating around the bush is evidence to the fact that your argument holds no merit and that you argue without an islamically factual basis.

you have not provided me any evidence which conflicts with the legitimacy of capital punishment for those found by an islamic governing body to be guilty of extra-marital relations. rather, you espouse un-called for suspicion. once the matter regarding the prescribed punishment's authenticity was made clear to you, you begin to doubt the verdict altogether even while you were not present. you know nothing about with which methods the case was confirmed by the 'alims, and therefore have no authority to claim the guilty were wrongfullly punished. so what are you trying to say? why are you in such internal tumult and doubt?

Allah (swt) tells us in the Qur'an that it is a crime to be suspicious of Muslims without any regard for reality. that is where overlooking comes forth. you are doing exactly what you are trying to denounce (in the wrong context of course).

Allah says in the Qur'an al shareef:

O you who believe, avoid (indulging in) much suspicion; truly some suspicion is a sin. (49:12)

this means that, without any evidence to support your view, you have no right to accuse your muslim brother of hidden, evil motives and wrongfulness. to do so, is sinful and a lie on your part.

you keep going on and on, whining about the shari'at as was practiced by the messenger of Allah (swt) yet you have failed to provide anything to support for your erroneous views which, in my opinion, are merely the result of emotional unrest. heavy discrimination of the islamic justice system is a habit most identifiable with westerners who change their illicit partners every few days and whose normal, everyday life is composed of the indulgence in sins considered severe in islam.

lastly, i never accused anybody of kufr but i gave a general warning saying that to argue against the sunnah of the prophet (saw) is akin to kufr based upon the hadith of the prophet (Saw) wherein he states "Those that turn away from my Sunnah (my ways) are not of me" (Bukhari)

you, on the other hand, on emotional grounds, retorted and labeled me a kafir due to me supporting of the sunnah of rasulullah (saw).

you are severely misguided.

many of us wake up to church bells instead of the adhan, that is why the islam they practice seems distant and strange. our opinions are formed as a result of western indoctrination and brainwashing.

I'm sorry this is more obtuse rhetoric; We're not denying the use and existence of Rajm (stoning) in Islamic Penal Code. We're denying your shallow Kharijiyah based interpretation of the methodology in regards to applying the Penal Code. The issue of Rajm and punishment by Rajm was never questioned. That's only in the realm of your mental faculty's inability to comprehend things beyond it's hallucinations.

So you are becoming guilty of verse 49:12 for making such meritless assumptions regarding insomuch as my views on rajm. I'm fine with rajm. I am not fine with misapplications of Shari'ah. Secondly the verse you're using is applied out of context; if you read the Tafsir it was discussing those who are genuinely good people and also backbiting; not legitimate concerns of appropriate applications of Islamic Law!!!

read Tafsir Jalalayn for more details.


http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMad...0&LanguageId=2

Your attacks on my "verbage" demonstrates a lacking in the fortitude in your argument and that you're desperately grasping for ground to validate an argument which is sadly, unmerited.

You also show no evidence for your claim that the penal code lacks any nuanced distinctions of how/where/when it should be applied. You're merely showing evidence that the Penal Code exists, which isn't the debate here. So you commited a logical fallacy known as Red Herring. Showing evidence of the existence of the Penal Code, which isn't what is being debated, isn't the same as showing evidence of the protocal for the penal code application. You merely keep whining about others verbage, allusions to baseless Westernization accusations, to support your errorneous, ANTI-ISLAMIC, views you attempt at disguising and lying in the name of the Prophet(saw) and his Sunnah.

My opinions are based on researching Fiqh, and understanding that in Fiqh there are detailed understandings of the requirements necessary for Penal Code enforcement. You appear to believe that all one needs to do is see two people having sex and this is all that is required to enact penalty; did you know that forensic evidence is also applicable, if necessary? or that psychological evaluations are required as well? or that you cannot continue to seek aggressions of someone if they have survived the stoning? Of course not.

Taliban are not 'Alims none of the Taliban leaders have any credible Islamic Credentials. Just attending Madrassa a few years is not evidence of credentials. None of them have actually graduated, thirdly most of the Madaris they attended are not universally accredited thereby makes their edicts, even ones made by their Madaris, dubious. Secondly the 'Alims who were there were absconding the Talib for shooting this woman AFTER SHE WAS STONED. We know for certain that shooting someone for adultery is not a prescribed Sunnah, nevermind shooting someone after they survived stoning. So this is not an issue of suspicion but actual evidentiary wrong doing.

I also never accused you of kufr either, please reread the sentence where I referred to kufr. I merely stated that the requisites of Islamic Morality are high and that to evade this is ALSO rejecting the Sunnah and would be tantamount to as you kufr and more over fitnah. So you're merely projecting your own perceptions onto me. Then I said I'm merely reflecting your behavior, this is not the same as accusation of kufr. My response motivated because what you're promoting and the argument you're peddling is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Sunnah, even when you post the Hadiths and give Ta'wil which has nothing to do with the context of Islamic standards of penal code application. Again you're projecting your own blind emotionalized distortions on to me.

You reflect evidence of severe mental illness, and perhaps even deficiency, for which I say May God bestow his mercy on you just as he does for his whole creation.

The only brainwashing here is the irrational khariji one that motivates such negligent application of Islamic law.

[qunduz92]

I'm sorry this is more obtuse rhetoric; We're not denying the use and existence of Rajm (stoning) in Islamic Penal Code. We're denying your shallow Kharijiyah based interpretation of the methodology in regards to applying the Penal Code. The issue of Rajm and punishment by Rajm was never questioned. That's only in the realm of your mental faculty's inability to comprehend things beyond it's hallucinations.

So you are becoming guilty of verse 49:12 for making such meritless assumptions regarding insomuch as my views on rajm. I'm fine with rajm. I am not fine with misapplications of Shari'ah. Secondly the verse you're using is applied out of context; if you read the Tafsir it was discussing those who are genuinely good people and also backbiting; not legitimate concerns of appropriate applications of Islamic Law!!!

read Tafsir Jalalayn for more details.


http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMad...0&LanguageId=2

Your attacks on my "verbage" demonstrates a lacking in the fortitude in your argument and that you're desperately grasping for ground to validate an argument which is sadly, unmerited.

You also show no evidence for your claim that the penal code lacks any nuanced distinctions of how/where/when it should be applied. You're merely showing evidence that the Penal Code exists, which isn't the debate here. So you commited a logical fallacy known as Red Herring. Showing evidence of the existence of the Penal Code, which isn't what is being debated, isn't the same as showing evidence of the protocal for the penal code application. You merely keep whining about others verbage, allusions to baseless Westernization accusations, to support your errorneous, ANTI-ISLAMIC, views you attempt at disguising and lying in the name of the Prophet(saw) and his Sunnah.

My opinions are based on researching Fiqh, and understanding that in Fiqh there are detailed understandings of the requirements necessary for Penal Code enforcement. You appear to believe that all one needs to do is see two people having sex and this is all that is required to enact penalty; did you know that forensic evidence is also applicable, if necessary? or that psychological evaluations are required as well? or that you cannot continue to seek aggressions of someone if they have survived the stoning? Of course not.

Taliban are not 'Alims none of the Taliban leaders have any credible Islamic Credentials. Just attending Madrassa a few years is not evidence of credentials. None of them have actually graduated, thirdly most of the Madaris they attended are not universally accredited thereby makes their edicts, even ones made by their Madaris, dubious. Secondly the 'Alims who were there were absconding the Talib for shooting this woman AFTER SHE WAS STONED. We know for certain that shooting someone for adultery is not a prescribed Sunnah, nevermind shooting someone after they survived stoning. So this is not an issue of suspicion but actual evidentiary wrong doing.

I also never accused you of kufr either, please reread the sentence where I referred to kufr. I merely stated that the requisites of Islamic Morality are high and that to evade this is ALSO rejecting the Sunnah and would be tantamount to as you kufr and more over fitnah. So you're merely projecting your own perceptions onto me. Then I said I'm merely reflecting your behavior, this is not the same as accusation of kufr. My response motivated because what you're promoting and the argument you're peddling is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Sunnah, even when you post the Hadiths and give Ta'wil which has nothing to do with the context of Islamic standards of penal code application. Again you're projecting your own blind emotionalized distortions on to me.

You reflect evidence of severe mental illness, and perhaps even deficiency, for which I say May God bestow his mercy on you just as he does for his whole creation.

The only brainwashing here is the irrational khariji one that motivates such negligent application of Islamic law.

okay, this is getting absurd.

my showing of evidence of the existence and legitimacy of stoning of adulterers was in response to those of you who claimed it was a punishemt either optional or worse, fallacious.

when that was clarified, you now turn the subject to whining about how you suspect the judges who conducted the investigation did so improperly; something malicious of you considering you do not even have the facts of how the proceedings went. how are you so sure they were incorrectly convicted? why are you so quick in professing baseless accusations against those who adhere to islam much more adamently than the majority of muslim people worldwide. regardless of your further baseless accusations that they are not qualified scholars, even though that is a ludicrious assumption, the evidence suggests that since they adhere to islamic practices more completely than much of the world's so called established islamic scholars, they are more closely aligned with and nearer to islam. i have read the tafsir of the qur'an al majid; and i understand it well enough to know that the verse of suspicion is regarding thinking evil of other muslims without evidence. thus, that ayah is certainly not out of context and completely applies to the situation.

moreover, this discussion was pertaining to the legitmacy of the death penalty for extra-marital adultery.

now you turned it over to the fighter that shot her. this is an entirely separate issue as it is not representative of the theology of the movement. it was simply an act done by a young fighter, and i believe this is one of the reasons it was good press material. in my opinion Allah (swt) will easily forgive him for this relatively minor misdeed in which he perhaps aggressed a little in carrying out Allah's will. he was not the criminal guilty of adultery; they were. as i said, Allah (swt) is merciful to those who make the effort to follow His commands. he may have followed Allah's (swt) command a bit aggressively, and if he rectifies himself this is where Allah's (swt) mercy is always extremely near.

also, you appear to mischievously accuse me of things which i have never stated. if you took the care to read my posts in this discussion, i mentioned several times that the testimony of four witnesses and/or that of the guilty party is essential. what is causing you to jump to the conclusion that the judges responsible for the indictment did not adhere to the proper protocols?this is exactly what i mean by thinking maliciously of muslims, without any proof. as for forensic evidence, it may be used but is not essential as the prophet (saw) himself indicted people without it.

moreover, provide evidence for the presumption that if one survives stoning they shall be released. i believe you are referring to the hadith of one man who while being stoned called out to be sent to the messenger (saw) as his tribe had deluded him. the prophet (saw) then asked them why they did not listen to him. this man had a special circumstance whereas the two adulterers shown in the video were according to the narrator, not even remorseful for their evil deed.

i also find it quite strange that the people who get most infuriated and uncomfortable with the sunnah-dealing for adultery are ones that either live, have lived, or would like to live a fully "western" lifestyle. thus they are fearful inside and become encompassed with guilt and shame knowing that the same dealings may in fact justly apply to them as well. it is all psychological and therefore i may have the right to assume you are the one that is mentally ill and hallucinating; not me.

i will not waste my time on you any further. i believe i have done my part to justify and stand up for the original way of the beloved messenger of Allah; may Allah's peace and blessings shower upon him continuously.
i provided evidence with sound hadith and ayats from the qur'an al shareef whereras you provided nothing and are merely running around in circles and finding any way to denounce it because the ruling may have hit the wrong nerve. don't let it. it is the americans and europeans who get the most worked up over such issues seeing as adultery is routine for them and they are afraid of the repercussions in case such legal systems spread elsewhere..

please have some sense and stop appealing to and spreading imperialist dogma.

[faye]

babo..

faye i did not quite get your question. who are you referring to as murderers? if it is the people that executed the justified punishment, they are the keepers and maintainers of the law of the society, not criminals.

you may find it disturbing, but these people committed a serious crime in islam and their punishment is one which the prophet(saw) always ordered in case proven. do you consider a person getting jailed for rape also unjust?
the sole purpose of these laws is not merely for the guilty party's atonement of sin wrought on by punishment, but to protect the health and functioning of the society.

also, please do not turn this into a male vs. female thing because it isn't. it's what westerners are very prone to do due their naivety and ignorance.

the guilty man as well as the woman received the same punishment. this is a matter of dealing with crime, not of oppressing women.

in my naive and ignorant state of consciousness, i consider the killing of another human being, murder, no matter what the excuse or whether it be man or woman.
in the footage of this event, which i saw on tv, i only saw men in the audience. i therefore was not making this into a male verses female issue.
so, for me, i worry about the psyche of people who commit a murder. i think it is unhealthy. the couple could be sent away.
to murder people, as a solution for what is classified sins or breaking of laws will be never ending. some people are able to be reformed after doing wrong and can even become role models who assist others.
well,excuse me now, i am off to my 3 daily liaison

[ScimitarXEdge]

okay, this is getting absurd.

my showing of evidence of the existence and legitimacy of stoning of adulterers was in response to those of you who claimed it was a punishemt either optional or worse, fallacious.

when that was clarified, you now turn the subject to whining about how you suspect the judges who conducted the investigation did so improperly; something malicious of you considering you do not even have the facts of how the proceedings went. how are you so sure they were incorrectly convicted? why are you so quick in professing baseless accusations against those who adhere to islam much more adamently than the majority of muslim people worldwide. regardless of your further baseless accusations that they are not qualified scholars, even though that is a ludicrious assumption, the evidence suggests that since they adhere to islamic practices more completely than much of the world's so called established islamic scholars, they are more closely aligned with and nearer to islam. i have read the tafsir of the qur'an al majid; and i understand it well enough to know that the verse of suspicion is regarding thinking evil of other muslims without evidence. thus, that ayah is certainly not out of context and completely applies to the situation.

moreover, this discussion was pertaining to the legitmacy of the death penalty for extra-marital adultery.

now you turned it over to the fighter that shot her. this is an entirely separate issue as it is not representative of the theology of the movement. it was simply an act done by a young fighter, and i believe this is one of the reasons it was good press material. in my opinion Allah (swt) will easily forgive him for this relatively minor misdeed in which he perhaps aggressed a little in carrying out Allah's will. he was not the criminal guilty of adultery; they were. as i said, Allah (swt) is merciful to those who make the effort to follow His commands. he may have followed Allah's (swt) command a bit aggressively, and if he rectifies himself this is where Allah's (swt) mercy is always extremely near.

also, you appear to mischievously accuse me of things which i have never stated. if you took the care to read my posts in this discussion, i mentioned several times that the testimony of four witnesses and/or that of the guilty party is essential. what is causing you to jump to the conclusion that the judges responsible for the indictment did not adhere to the proper protocols?this is exactly what i mean by thinking maliciously of muslims, without any proof. as for forensic evidence, it may be used but is not essential as the prophet (saw) himself indicted people without it.

moreover, provide evidence for the presumption that if one survives stoning they shall be released. i believe you are referring to the hadith of one man who while being stoned called out to be sent to the messenger (saw) as his tribe had deluded him. the prophet (saw) then asked them why they did not listen to him. this man had a special circumstance whereas the two adulterers shown in the video were according to the narrator, not even remorseful for their evil deed.

i also find it quite strange that the people who get most infuriated and uncomfortable with the sunnah-dealing for adultery are ones that either live, have lived, or would like to live a fully "western" lifestyle. thus they are fearful inside and become encompassed with guilt and shame knowing that the same dealings may in fact justly apply to them as well. it is all psychological and therefore i may have the right to assume you are the one that is mentally ill and hallucinating; not me.

i will not waste my time on you any further. i believe i have done my part to justify and stand up for the original way of the beloved messenger of Allah; may Allah's peace and blessings shower upon him continuously.
i provided evidence with sound hadith and ayats from the qur'an al shareef whereras you provided nothing and are merely running around in circles and finding any way to denounce it because the ruling may have hit the wrong nerve. don't let it. it is the americans and europeans who get the most worked up over such issues seeing as adultery is routine for them and they are afraid of the repercussions in case such legal systems spread elsewhere..

please have some sense and stop appealing to and spreading imperialist dogma.

You once again failed to address that I have acknowledged that Stoning for adultery is a legal ordinance for Islamc Penal Code. You keep responding to me as if I have made any allusions to denying it. If the issue here was Western lifestyle and being Westernized; then I would not accept stoning for adultery at all. So this assertion agains is a product of a twisted mental illness at work, not actually anything evident or apparent in the argument. All this is realy is a pathetic scapegoat for corrupting Islam and perverting it and then claiming it's the Sunnah. Such tactics are crooked and against all Islamic Principles.

Yes I do look at the methodology questionably; the Taliban have no, literally NO Investigatory Committee which addresses criminal offenses. Unless you can show me otherwise I refuse to retract my doubts. My doubts exist because of lack of evidence regarding how the Taliban administer it's policies and address proving guilt in criminal offenses. And it's neither malicious nor vindictiveness which inspires this argument; it's the Principle of Justice which is apart of being a True Believing Muslim. You seem not to understand in Islam there are checks and balances; even an issue of 4 witnesses must be addressed with analysis. Why is there no allusion and address of the witnesses, why is there no evidence of character evaluation of the 4 witnesses, why is there no forensic evidence to corroborate the 4 witnesses claim, which in the case of Hilal Ibn Ummayah was used by the Nabi (saw). (more details here http://www.searchtruth.com/book_disp...=0&number=2229 ). Nabi (saw) only indicted people when there was clear redress for an act, either by confession or that there was such unanimous proof it could not be forged.

You have quoted Hadith and Qur'anic ayats; none of which had anything to do with the debate. You only proved what was already agreed upon by me. You did not prove that the Taliban methodology was in fact in sync with the Islamic Injunctions of Adultery Penalty.

You have failed in providing a rigorous and cogent support.

The Taliban committed a crime, not because they punished for adultery; but the evidence shows they did it the completely wrong way. To assume that Allah(swt) will deem the taking of life as a MINOR deed and that his zealotry expiates such an act is the HEIGHT of Hubris and hypocrisy. Allah(swt) had sanctified a life who had survived Allah(swt)'s penalty, in such a case what he did was not a minor act but is MURDER. If he was concerned with fulfilling Allah(swt)'s law then he would have taken that into account. That contradiction demonstrates a clearly disingenuous argument; doing precisely what I had concluded before, exploiting the name of Allah(swt) and Islam to cowtow for corruption.

The replies all came in the negative. Prophet Muhammad then said, "had you kept it a secret, it would have been better for you." Prophet Muhammad then ordered Ma'iz to be stoned to death. During the stoning, Ma'iz cried out, "O people, take me back to the Holy Prophet, the people of my clan deluded me." When this was reported to Prophet Muhammad, he replied "Why did you not let hiThe replies all came in the negative. Prophet Muhammad then said, "had you kept it a secret, it would have been better for you." Prophet Muhammad then ordered Ma'iz to be stoned to death. During the stoning, Ma'iz cried out, "O people, take me back to the Holy Prophet, the people of my clan deluded me." When this was reported to Prophet Muhammad, he replied "Why did you not let him off, he might have repented, and Allah may have accepted it." m off, he might have repented, and Allah may have accepted it." (Sahih Muslim 1694)

That's a source which deals with clemency; the source regarding the escapee I will have to locate.

If you want to see appealing and propagating imperialist dogma, look no further than your irrational Kharji doctrine which was responsible for everything such as allowing the British into Muslim lands to rebelling against the Khilafah to making allegiences with imperialist nations and receiving funding from them.

[IamDZJ]

BABO
so are you saying that the prophet (Saw) used to order for the stoning of adulterers in vain and in reality, he had no right to do so?

^ exactly which one of the observers or the talibs who carried on with the 'punishment' are you comparing with the prophet mohammad pbuh?? explain that to me. i would really like to know more about this individual.

i don't believe in any source that says that the prophet pbuh personally approved, attended or participated in stoning other human beings..whatever the crime committed be... no one should/does have the right to take another human being's life and from what i know, islam agrees with me on that. you don't even have to be a muslim to believe in that. learn to be a human being first.
besides, to find someone guilty of such a convection, you have to have at least four witness. where were they in this case??
..and it is actually to the benefit of the adulterer since they will be abrogated from the much more grievous punishment on the day of resurrection.

^where in Qur'aan does it say that?? if you have a reference from the holy book, i would like to see it. don't quote anything from anywhere other than the holy book for me.
as for "negative impacts on common citizens", well islam is the religion of Allah(swt) our Creator and he knows what is best for us. there is nothing in the qur'an or sunnah which when followed cause direct negative impacts.

^if our creator had intended for us to stone each other to death, there wouldn't be any point in having a judgments day.

[شمله ور خراساني]

^ exactly which one of the observers or the talibs who carried on with the 'punishment' are you comparing with the prophet mohammad pbuh?? explain that to me. i would really like to know more about this individual.

ALlah ordered the prophet saww to establish prayer. So now we all pray. SHould we stop praying because nobody can be compared to the prophet saww?


I advice you to stop listening to those love songs. It is affecting your judgement.

[IamDZJ]

ALlah ordered the prophet saww to establish prayer. So now we all pray. SHould we stop praying because nobody can be compared to the prophet saww?

when was the last time you added hot sauce to your cup of tea and drank it with pleasure?? you can't apply one rule to everything in life and expect it to work.
o wait, i have one...the prophet didn't use internet. why are you using it??

I advice you to stop listening to those love songs. It is affecting your judgement.

i am me and me likes listening to all types of music.

[qunduz92]

BABO
so are you saying that the prophet (Saw) used to order for the stoning of adulterers in vain and in reality, he had no right to do so?

^ exactly which one of the observers or the talibs who carried on with the 'punishment' are you comparing with the prophet mohammad pbuh?? explain that to me. i would really like to know more about this individual.

i don't believe in any source that says that the prophet pbuh personally approved, attended or participated in stoning other human beings..whatever the crime committed be... no one should/does have the right to take another human being's life and from what i know, islam agrees with me on that. you don't even have to be a muslim to believe in that. learn to be a human being first.
besides, to find someone guilty of such a convection, you have to have at least four witness. where were they in this case??
..and it is actually to the benefit of the adulterer since they will be abrogated from the much more grievous punishment on the day of resurrection.

^where in Qur'aan does it say that?? if you have a reference from the holy book, i would like to see it. don't quote anything from anywhere other than the holy book for me.
as for "negative impacts on common citizens", well islam is the religion of Allah(swt) our Creator and he knows what is best for us. there is nothing in the qur'an or sunnah which when followed cause direct negative impacts.

^if our creator had intended for us to stone each other to death, there wouldn't be any point in having a judgments day.

you are more than welcome to accept or deny whatever you wish just as long as you don't falsely attribute things to Allah(swt)'s religion without evidence-- a crime considered by scholars to be 2nd in severity to shirk.

the authentic hadith in which our beloved nabi (SAW) ordered for convicted adulterers to be stoned have already been posted by me.

the prophet (Saw) was quoted to have said in various hadith that there will be people like you one day in the ummah reclining on couches who will say we didn't find such and such in Allah(Swt)'s book , therefore we reject it. the holy prophet(Saw) warned us abstain from that evil behavior. he (Saw) said that there have been many actions made compulsory solely through his (Saw) sunnah which are as important if not more important for us to follow. he (Saw) also said, that those who turn away from and reject his established sunnah are disbelievers and have nothing to do with him (Saw). the above hadiths were all quoted by me previously with their sources. many of them have been compiled in not one source but the same narrations exist in different compilations as well. in addition, there are numerous ayats in the qur'an al majid where Allah (Swt) tells the believers to emulate the prophet (Saw) and follow his (Saw) path.

so as i said, you esapzai, scimitar, ralph etc have been informed as to the reality of the situation based upon the sunnah of Nabi (SAW) which you are free to accept or reject. and there is nothing more i can tell you except that.

a good majority of afghan-americans or afghans living in other foriegn countries wake up to the sounds of church bells instead of the adhan, -attend nightclubs instead of masjids, drink, fornicate, dress provocatively and what not and then criticize the muslim people of afghanistan of how they conduct their lives adhereing to the sunnah of rasulullah (saw) as was practiced 1400 years ago. it is stupid to say the least.

[IamDZJ]

^ i asked you for quotes directly from the Quraan on the parts of the post that i had highlighted for you. i didn't ask you to throw in a few religious sentences together and create a well structured paragraph for me. there was a reason behind that.

i wish that self proclaimed muslims such as you and kakargirl weren't as ignorant and arrogant as to presume that those of us who live in the west wake up to the sounds of church bill rings( by the way, what is so wrong with waking up to the sound of a church bill ring??) and dress up inappropriately..go to disco clubs or what not because we don't and you have no right to assume something ridiculous like that about us. i m pretty sure there is a nice little spot in hell for people who blindly accuse others of things they pull out of their hinds.

strive to become a good human being first and worry about being a good muslim later. remember, foundation matters.

[qunduz92]

^ i asked you for quotes directly from the Quraan on the parts of the post that i had highlighted for you. i didn't ask you to throw in a few religious sentences together and create a well structured paragraph for me. there was a reason behind that.

i wish that self proclaimed muslims such as you and kakargirl weren't as ignorant and arrogant as to presume that those of us who live in the west wake up to the sounds of church bill rings( by the way, what is so wrong with waking up to the sound of a church bill ring??) and dress up inappropriately..go to disco clubs or what not because we don't and you have no right to assume something ridiculous like that about us. i m pretty sure there is a nice little spot in hell for people who blindly accuse others of things they pull out of their hinds.

now you are making no sense. every question of yours in that post was directly and sufficiently answered by me. if only you people stopped living in denial and started to acknowledge things for what they are, not what you would like them to be.

it is an established fact that many many 'westenized' afghans indulge in the behaviours i mentioned. it is dishonest and quire absurd of you to deny this. the message i was attempting to set forth was that it is hypocrisy and uncalled for these very wrongdoers who routinely get drunk and fornicate to be dictating what authentic islam really is.

as far as you telling others there is a spot in hell waiting for them; shame on you and your stupidity. you are not God naudhubillah to be questioning where those of us righteous muslims who speak up for our prophet (saw) will end up. there is a big difference between me and you. without any knowledge of the qur'an, any knowledge of the sunnah, you are the ones pulling things out of nowhere. you seem to be a very profane and shameless woman.. here we are mentioning Allah's Swt's name and you use vulgarity. save the profanity for when you're out, this is a conservative pashtun forum which minors use as well. it just goes to show the tarbiyah your parents taught you. profanity is worse enough when men do it, but women are expected to have better control of their mouths and tempers. in pakhto as well as in islam. if you acted the way you do in a pakhtun village, they would not let you alive.

[Abeille]

From what I understand, stoning to death is not an Islamic injunction. It is a Jewish one. The Prophet, who was in-charge of the state of Medina, ordered stoning as per the dictates of the Jewish law on the Jews themselves. A Muslim was never stoned to death. NEVER.

[qunduz92]

From what I understand, stoning to death is not an Islamic injunction. It is a Jewish one. The Prophet, who was in-charge of the state of Medina, ordered stoning as per the dictates of the Jewish law on the Jews themselves. A Muslim was never stoned to death. NEVER.

it feels weird to know so many people become emotionally distressed when they realize capital punishment is ordained for adulterers in islamic law. i would advise you to search for the hadiths i had posted which confirm it is a mandate made obligatory through the sunnah of our holy prophet (Saw), which is equivalent in legal weight to the qur'an. our prophet (saw) did not just stone jews but muslims as well. please do a little more research.. thanks.