The Immorality of Child Abuse

[Soldat_Amir]

Tor Khan

I have told you to control the behavior of Soldat Amir

There is a direct attack on Ayesha here and a indirect one on the Prophet

I expect action to be taken immediately

No attacks like this can be tolerated

Also, derailing of this thread is not appreciated

Rules must be enforced equally

You just made my point very clear of the purpose of this thread. You think I am so naive and stupid that I cant sense your motives.

Yes your correct, I will avoid this topic after this message.

[ozymandias]

dude, non of this has anything to do with the topic... what part of that don't you understand... In the internet, what you are doing is considered trolling.

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many trolls in this thread and Soldat is not one of them.

[Insaaf_انصاف]

Dear Tor_Khan.,

You know that unknownprince is a troll, and it's not the first Time that he is trolling,
We can be reffered to the thread of " Ban notifications "

==>
" Checkmate, Unknownprince (and his many other accounts) have been banned. "
Admin khan

Unknownprince have to be definatelly banned for Trolling

Same for graveyardsofempires , it's not the first Time ( Ban notification thread )

We hope that you gonna ban them because they recur

Dera Manana Tor_Khan Wrora

[ozymandias]

The Atheists have no logical arguement against the points raised here, the only response they have is "ooo well look at you muslims blah blah blah".

Truth is if your an atheist you shouldnt find a 30 year old man having sex with a 12 year old girl wrong,

False. Atheists are by definition without a *god*, not without *morals*. The two are entirely separate issues.

afterall your religion is science no?

No, it is not. Atheists have no religion, by definition, and even using only science, pedophilia is immoral.

scientifically if a 12 year old has reached puberty shes ready for 'mating',

Only physically, not mentally.

you find it wrong because deep down your soul tells you its wrong

Not so deep down. It's pretty much right on the surface, with all my other morals.

...hold on the soul doesnt exist does it??? confused people.

Huh? What does a soul have to do with morals?

[unknownprince]

The bacha baz are also atheists.

Surely the Amir is not implying that the bacha baz are God conscious people that pray fives a day, give charity and obey Allah?



is there gay parade in mecca? Is there church street in Afghanistan?




What consequences?


No srsly...what consequences?

According to the atheist professor consequences are good if you think they are good, and bad if you feel that they are bad. If the child thinks they are good than they are good. How are the consequences different from a child to an adult?

Great points

If all of you including the Amir read the article presented, you will see the points made are on logical grounds

The author further links athiesm to a immoral life

He basically says that for an athirst, there is no clear distinction between right and wrong.

He alludes to the fact that pedophilia and homosexuality are treated in such a way that is sympathetic to it.

The argument is logical

Obviously, there exist pedophiles even among those claiming faith, but it is a fact that those pushing pedophilia to the norm are atheists

There is a lot of current research on this

[tor_khan]

Staff Message:

I have had a number of complaints about these threads and the purpose that they serve. There is a sound argument put by some of the complainants that the number of threads on a similar topic amounts to a Spam Attack and as a result, I am merging them into one place. As the thread starter pointed out a couple of posts in keywords in Google Search will bring up a list of hits for those with an interest in the topic. My own opinion on this, is that the issue of child sexual abuse requires much more sensitive treatment than has been afforded by some here. There appears to have been a deliberate attempt to flame than open up the issue for civil discussion. The result is that the serious discussion is largely absent in the threads so far. The other issue, related to key word searches and the linkbacks that this generates is the kind of attention that may be drawn to topics headed 'pedophilia', 'porn' etc. Only a couple of days ago, I put a general Announcement about taking care with titles. Furthermore, it is wrong for any Member to masquerade as another Member and to attribute posts or edits to that person. I share this reminder here because it has happened in this space though note that this is a clear violation of House Rules and I will not hesitate to remove posting privileges should a repeat of this occur.

[Manzareh]

I am sorry, I did not mean to talk in riddles -- I was trying to be polite. Islam is a religion known nation wide for many things, both good, and bad. One of the bad things that pops up in Islam is a tradition of older men marrying very young girls -- and this tradition dates back to the foundation of your religion, when mohammad married a young girl. Others have already posted many links and videos explaining exactly what I am talking about. To claim pedophilia is an atheist only problem is to ignore the long history of these things in Islam and Christianity, as well as the many other religions that allow, or embrace it.

Ozzy iv read your posts, thought you were smarter that than to think the tradition of older men marrying young girls started with muhammed pbuh, truth is you go back 1400 years anyware in the world and it was the same, which means your great great great great grandfather most likely have married a very young girl which people nowdays would regard as being peadophillic. the tradition of marrying young girls started to dissapear slowly in the advent of Islam, previous to Muhammed PBUH women were nomore than pets. Islam doesnt embrace peodophilla. just look into england just a 100 years ago it was legal to marry a girl of 12 years old. how can someone have such a crude realization of history.

[ozymandias]

Great points

If all of you including the Amir read the article presented, you will see the points made are on logical grounds

The author further links athiesm to a immoral life

He basically says that for an athirst, there is no clear distinction between right and wrong.

Unfortunately many, many studies have proven that morals and religion are not linked. This man is in the minority with these claims.

He alludes to the fact that pedophilia and homosexuality are treated in such a way that is sympathetic to it.

I have never seen a non-religious person treat pedophilia in a 'sympathetic' way -- only the religious do that. As for homosexuality, that is a completely unrelated topic from pedophilia. Pedophilia is about age, homosexuality is about gender.

The argument is logical

No it is not.

Obviously, there exist pedophiles even among those claiming faith, but it is a fact that those pushing pedophilia to the norm are atheists

Citation needed, especially with all the contrary evidence already presented in this thread.

[/quote]

There is a lot of current research on this[/QUOTE]

And most disagrees with this article.

[unknownprince]

You just made my point very clear of the purpose of this thread. You think I am so naive and stupid that I cant sense your motives.

Yes your correct, I will avoid this topic after this message.

Stupidity knows no limits

Sorry to break it you, but I do not read your illogical posts unless you comment on mine. I would prefer you don't comment on my threads

You think too much of yourself. Your not worth addressing aside from being told about yourself

I did not Post this article to get mental cases banned

Rules will be enforced and you have broken rules

[Manzareh]

Anyway Iam out of this thread for good.

dont say things your not capable of doing

[ozymandias]

Ozzy iv read your posts, thought you were smarter that than to think the tradition of older men marrying young girls started with muhammed pbuh, truth is you go back 1400 years anyware in the world and it was the same, which means your great great great great grandfather most likely have married a very young girl which people nowdays would regard as being peadophillic.

I did not mean pedophilia started with him, I meant your religion started with him.

the tradition of marrying young girls started to dissapear slowly in the advent of Islam, previous to Muhammed PBUH women were nomore than pets. Islam doesnt embrace peodophilla.

Unfortunately, some parts of it do.

just look into england just a 100 years ago it was legal to marry a girl of 12 years old. how can someone have such a crude realization of history.

Just because it was common does not make it right.

[Manzareh]

I did not mean pedophilia started with him, I meant your religion started with him..

No Islam didnt start with him

Unfortunately, some parts of it do. ..

No parts do.

Just because it was common does not make it right.

Ok so scientifically it was right, if it was common and accepted then moraly it was right aswel. so if scientifically and moraly it was right then what was the problem??

[ozymandias]

inb4 thread locked

pedophila does not exist

Clearly it does.

if she's pubescent, nature says it's ok, if she's not pubescent, nature says it's not ok

Morals are not simply 'nature'. According to your logic, there is no such thing as murder, because if I can kill someone, nature said it was 'ok'.

Until you can prove the contrary, Aisha was pubescent when she was engaged with the messenger of Allah

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married Ayesha (r.a) once she attained puberty with
1. Her consent
2. consent of her parents
3. the approval of the community

People as young as 7 or 9 are too young to give such consent, and the community and her parents consenting to an immoral act does not make it moral.

Ayesha (r.a) never complained in her life that The Prophet (pbuh) took advantage of her. In fact she said no one else could control their desires like The Prophet (pbuh) could. She was a happy and proud wife throughout.
If you can show these things today then there is nothing bad in marrying a girl of that age.

Well, other than the fact that she was a young child. Just because she did not complain only goes to show you how immature, and twisted that society was that that was not a point of a problem.

While I disagree with the assertion that this marriage can be debated, I find it very interesting that someone who does not believe in the authenticity of the hadiths would actually believe it did happen exactly the way it is written in those scriptures.... It seems that hypocrisy is something that your religion should take fairly lightly.

Salam

First off, I am an atheist, and have no religion. Secondly, considering the amount of people that base their lives on the hadiths it doesn't matter if they were real events or not. What matters is that people use them to excuse terrible behavior, and that many muslims consider them true -- which means the claim that only atheists can be pedophiles is silly.

[unknownprince]

Staff Message:

I have had a number of complaints about these threads and the purpose that they serve. There is a sound argument put by some of the complainants that the number of threads on a similar topic amounts to a Spam Attack and as a result, I am merging them into one place. As the thread starter pointed out a couple of posts in keywords in Google Search will bring up a list of hits for those with an interest in the topic. My own opinion on this, is that the issue of child sexual abuse requires much more sensitive treatment than has been afforded by some here. There appears to have been a deliberate attempt to flame than open up the issue for civil discussion. The result is that the serious discussion is largely absent in the threads so far. The other issue, related to key word searches and the linkbacks that this generates is the kind of attention that may be drawn to topics headed 'pedophilia', 'porn' etc. Only a couple of days ago, I put a general Announcement about taking care with titles. Furthermore, it is wrong for any Member to masquerade as another Member and to attribute posts or edits to that person. I share this reminder here because it has happened in this space though note that this is a clear violation of House Rules and I will not hesitate to remove posting privileges should a repeat of this occur.

Do not make this thread about spamming

Especially when atheists are given freedom to have discussion.

Do not point out my comments which were responses

Do not question intent since you do not do that with others

This is not a violation and rules can not be made up

Thanks


This is a research article which has been posted. You don't suddenly start taking concern and questioning my intent

My intent is not to be questioned as it is irrelevant. To do so is borderline hypothetical and only nonsense.

I expect non interference on this matter

[ozymandias]

No Islam didnt start with him

Before him, no islam, after him islam. Historically the world did not know of islam prior to his 'revelation'.

No parts do.

Unfortunately, people have already posted proof contrary to your claim in this very thread.

Ok so scientifically it was right, if it was common and accepted then moraly it was right aswel. so if scientifically and moraly it was right then what was the problem??

Huh? I don't understand the question without context. What does science and morals say is OK?