Islamic reaction to radical Muslims

[ozymandias]

Hmm, what do I think of this? Let's see.

I think I would blame our Muslim world before we blame anyone else. Our response to the cartoons was very,very poor. Having signs up like "Death to the U.S.A" really hurts our image exponentially. An innocent German who is home watching his T.V and puts on his local news channel and all he see's is people having signs up, chanting slogans and racial slurs really leads to a negative image and a negative effect on the viewers brain, especially if the viewer is young.(cognitive science agrees with this).

I agree whole heartedly.

What could we have done? Muslims could have gathered together, a few of our well-educated leaders could have rented a nice place in a hotel(preferably a conference-room)contacted the cartoonist and held some talks, Talks based on mutual understanding,equality and human rights. We could have professionally explained how this hurt our feelings and I am sure they would have understood.

Again, I agree.

But now that our reaction was so negative, They have made this day called "Draw Muhammad day" in which, I believe on that current day everyone is asked to draw our beloved prophet. Now ask, who's fault is it. Am I trying to justify the cartoonist behaviour? Not at all. But you can see what the response of the Muslim world brought them upon,themselves.

if you are ever in my neck of the woods, I would like to hang out with you. Traditionally, I offer to buy a round of beer -- but I feel that would be inappropriate here, so you pick ;-)

Let me make myself and my stance very clear, I am by no way attempting to provide justification for what he did, I just think Muslims handled it very poorly. Was it offensive? Yes to believers it was.

You see, what our youth does not understand is, Lets say for the sake of the argument someone DID indeed kill the cartoonist, doesn't the cartoonist have a community? Doesn't he have children? Just like how Pashtuns are quick to take badal(revenge) so would the cartoonist's family and his community. They would even draw worse stuff to hurt the feelings of the Muslims even more.

We should not, at anytime let our anger get the best of us. So far it seems as though it has for the most part and we are now facing the consequences, people are establishing political careers off of the anger of the Muslim world.

If all the people involved had acted as you do, this issue would have dried up and became a non-issue a long time ago.

Did I find it offensive? I am sure anyone would find such a thing as insulting, but a lot of people were awaiting upon our response and it did not turn out to be so good. We sort of digged a bigger hole for ourselves.

I must say, to see such a rational response from the Admin makes me feel a heck of a lot better. I'm no longer quite so worried about this thread getting too out of hand, and I am glad to find at least one post so far that I agree with from start to finish.

[Master Khan]

@Ozymandias
So biscally you are saying that if someone in****s our Religion and culture then instend going violence about it, we should deal with it in court and sue them for it.

[ozymandias]

@Ozymandias
So biscally you are saying that if someone in****s our Religion and culture then instend going violence about it, we should deal with it in court and sue them for it.

That is one valid response. You can even deal with it less formally -- letters of complaint, peaceful protests, boycotts, those sorts of things. Politely asking people to stop, and presenting your side would go a long way, as would economic impacts. At the very least, it would give them less fuel to use to call you violent with.

[Admin Khan]

Respected Ozymandias,

I appreciate the sincere remarks, It's a pleasure to have you here in our community, consider this place as your home. It's nice to know that my response met your standards.


Sincerely,

-Admin Khan

[Mutakhasis]

This is a backward understanding of things, insulting any of the Anbiya or mursaleen is a punishment of death. No matter who says it even if it was a joke, the Sahaabah [ra] immediately killed that person without being asked to repent. And this is well-known amongst the Muslims after them, it is only our recent generations that have no self-respect nor jealousy towards our deen and allow people to insult Rasulullah [saw] in the name of modernity.


And using words like radical only shows the persons shallow understanding, what is a radical? Do you even know what it means? and how is being a radical against Islam?

[inqilab]

Totally agree. Like queen of hearts said: "Off with his head!"

[imb706]

his is a backward understanding of things, insulting any of the Anbiya or mursaleen is a punishment of death. No matter who says it even if it was a joke, the Sahaabah [ra] immediately killed that person without being asked to repent. And this is well-known amongst the Muslims after them, it is only our recent generations that have no self-respect nor jealousy towards our deen and allow people to insult Rasulullah [saw] in the name of modernity.

And some wonder why muslims are perceived as violent.

[tor_khan]

And some wonder why muslims are perceived as violent.

It's all relative and varies from society to society. Here in (Muslim) UAE, you can walk between two tall buildings at 3am with your entire gold and diamond collection in a see-through polythene bag and nobody bats an eye.

You couldn't do that in London, New York or LA.

Poverty, greed and lack of opportunity drives this. Not simply being Muslim.

[imb706]

You're right about relativity, but wrong in your conclusion. For example LA (which is five cities making up a mega city) is extremely relative and while South Central LA is known for crime (actually a bit exaggerated), other areas are nearly crime free. In reality, the most crime ridden cities are Detroit and Baltimore, while San Fransisco, Honolulu, and others are extremely safe. I certainly wouldn't aspire to be like the UAE, which is full of problems. Countries like that are full of crime and full of social ills far worse than ours, and citizens will admit it when they can (long before I even had concrete political and social opinions, I remember reading on the satirical writer Maddox's page about how his website was banned in the UAE, he got tons of support from UAE citizens who told him about censorship and about how crime isn't reported on there). In reality, places like that have extensive state media that filters out news far worse than Fox News and CNN. And the UAE's economy is based on a city state that essentially just sucks wealth out of neighboring countries, it's like Alaska, it's a welfarian. Anyway, about cartoons, if you riot and get violent over cartoons, you have serious maturity or even mental issues. Strangely enough, Muslims aren't rioting everyday about the statue of Muhammad in Washington D.C.

[tor_khan]

You're right about relativity, but wrong in your conclusion.

I wrote: Poverty, greed and lack of opportunity*drives this.
* = people vulnerable to radicalism - this is less the case in the UAE, because bellies are not hungry

The UAE has a many things wrong with it, but many things right. Media is heavily controlled, but you see, in the middle east, there are alternative voices - blogging is widespread, news spreads and old and new forms of communication - open air story and poetry nights and SMS technology allows for the spread of information. People know a "truth" when they see it, they also know a "lie" when it is told to them. But we don't deal in black and white - the East in general is very culturally rich and this is not North Korea.

There is nothing "alternative" about Fox. It's Hollywood - soft lights and glowing faces. You misunderstand the integrity of your own media if you're standards are based on Fox News. The US does have better output, but you're not talking about that and trouble is that Fox is what is exported around the world. It is the face that they US sells globally.

Simply put, Fox News is pitched low and peddles crude stereotypes. It is really for Barney viewers who don't know the difference between Iran and Iraq except that they end in different letters.

[imb706]

I wrote: Poverty, greed and lack of opportunity*drives this.

Well, the Middle East is king of all three, maybe only beaten by Africa. But certainly poverty isn't responsible for ridiculous protest against cartoons. That's just stupidity and being a crybaby.

The Middle East would be an absolute craphole without fossil fuels. These are new nations carved up and artificially created by the British, and they haven't faced the same trials, issues or have made the same achivements as other nations because they simply exist for and because of oil.

The UAE has a many things wrong with it, but many things right. Media is heavily controlled, but you see, in the middle east, there are alternative voices - blogging is widespread,

So it's heavily controlled but there's alternatives? That doesn't make sense.

Blogging is primarily people talking about their daily lives on a widespread forum. The vast majority of "political" blogging is done in Europe and the US. You blog about real controversial issues in the Middle East, it's off to prison or death.

news spreads and old and new forms of communication - open air story and poetry nights and SMS technolog

Poetry nights? Damn, that reminds me of San Fransisco...

eople know a "truth" when they see it, they also know a "lie" when it is told to them.

Not really, humans are highly emotional and susceptible creatures, we usually don't see the truth at face value. Any fully controlled state media is automatically untrustworthy. It's one of the worst things to do, take the media, in theory (not always in practice) an indepedent outlet to voices concerns and inform people, and give it to people in power is terrible.

There is nothing "alternative" about Fox.

Well, no argument there, but "alternative" news in the US is everywhere, it's just not given much exposure. Let's see, PBS, Democracy Now, Firedog Lake, NPR, etc. Independent alternative news is in abundance and I've been listening and reading it for years.

The US does have better output, but you're not talking about that and trouble is that Fox is what is exported around the world. It is the face that they US sells globally.

Yes true but Fox isn't a mouthpiece of the government, it's a mouthpiece of an Australian conservative and his massive corporate backing. I'm no fan of Obama, but they oppose him simply because he's not GOP, even though he acts like it. But anyway, they still oppose him. They even had a host almost call him a n-----r once.

Simply put, Fox News is pitched low and peddles crude stereotypes. It is really for Barney viewers who don't know the difference between Iran and Iraq except that they end in different letters.

I agree that Fox News heavily contributes in a negative way. We need fair media laws that prevent major networks from openly lying and distorting things.

But we don't deal in black and white - the East in general is very culturally rich and this is not North Korea.

What does culturally rich mean?

[ozymandias]

This is a backward understanding of things, insulting any of the Anbiya or mursaleen is a punishment of death. No matter who says it even if it was a joke, the Sahaabah [ra] immediately killed that person without being asked to repent. And this is well-known amongst the Muslims after them, it is only our recent generations that have no self-respect nor jealousy towards our deen and allow people to insult Rasulullah [saw] in the name of modernity.


And using words like radical only shows the persons shallow understanding, what is a radical? Do you even know what it means? and how is being a radical against Islam?

And this is the problem. Feel free to practice *any* religious practices you want. You have that right. You do not have the right to force others to follow your traditions or laws -- they have the right to follow their own path.

You are a perfect example of the radical, terrorist supporting Muslim that the world sees. It is people like you that undermines the Muslim communities right to play the victim when demonized. You support the very things 'the West' berates you for. If the community does not reject what you say, they have no right to be offended or insulted when you are all associated together.

Congratulations on once again supporting terrorism and dragging the name of yuor religion and prophet through the mud. I would say what you just did is far more disrespectful and insulting to Mohammed than a mere cartoon drawn out of misunderstanding by a non-believer.

[tor_khan]

Well, the Middle East is king of all three, maybe only beaten by Africa. But certainly poverty isn't responsible for ridiculous protest against cartoons. That's just stupidity and being a crybaby.

Crybaby? Let's not mince words - is that what you are calling me?
Frankly, I don't know whether I should respond to that - but - I'll try to respond to the first part.

My guess is that you know very little about the middle east and that your views are made up by the social setting in which you were raised. The middle east is a complicated place, just like the US is. We share that in common.

In my opinion stark contrasts in wealth and opportunity make places like Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan volatile whereas it makes places like Qatar, the UAE and Malaysia less so. All are examples of Muslim countries.

The Middle East would be an absolute craphole without fossil fuels. These are new nations carved up and artificially created by the British, and they haven't faced the same trials, issues or have made the same achivements as other nations because they simply exist for and because of oil.

People who call the middle east a craphole are the kinds of people who call Arabs Sand ******s and Afghans Towel Heads. I'm surprised you censored yourself when you wrote that Fox all but calls Obama racist names. But why do you have two standards? Go on, say it. Have a moment and get it off your chest. However, the fact that it's illegal in the US to make racist remarks, makes people creative in how they express it. Yours was just the example of it.

So it's heavily controlled but there's alternatives? That doesn't make sense.

Yes, at the state level it is. But in the modern age, things change.

I wasn't going to mention it - but you force me - Al Jazeera has emerged as a real alternative media voice. I have mixed feelings about the media group, but it is known that Al Jazeera have built up a voice of opposition and that they continually hold up a mirror and embarass Arab governments. They do talk about democracy, gender issues, religion and social change. The trouble is, in the West, the only Arabic media you know (like Al Jazeera) is of footage carried by the Fox of Arab news stations playing videos of Osama.

Blogging is primarily people talking about their daily lives on a widespread forum. The vast majority of "political" blogging is done in Europe and the US. You blog about real controversial issues in the Middle East, it's off to prison or death.

And you know, because you live here ... Wake up brother, you're sounding more a Southern redneck the more you go on.

Most bloggers per population of people, are in fact just across the waters from here, in Iran. The US, despite being the biggest internet users, cannot boast the same quota. Why?

Perhaps its because 60% of Iranians are graduates who DO write. Americans come nowhere near that figure of being informed.

Not really, humans are highly emotional and susceptible creatures, we usually don't see the truth at face value. Any fully controlled state media is automatically untrustworthy. It's one of the worst things to do, take the media, in theory (not always in practice) an indepedent outlet to voices concerns and inform people, and give it to people in power is terrible.

That is a particularly narrow US phenomena - it's almost like a media induced social coma. Europeans, the Middle East, etc. are way better at not trusting their governments.

Yes true but Fox isn't a mouthpiece of the government, it's a mouthpiece of an Australian conservative and his massive corporate backing. I'm no fan of Obama, but they oppose him simply because he's not GOP, even though he acts like it. But anyway, they still oppose him. They even had a host almost call him a n-----r once.

I agree that Fox News heavily contributes in a negative way.

Right, Rupert Murdoch has his own - protect-Israel-at-all-costs agenda. n-----r - You and I both know what fits in the space. It's classic censorship - even those who say they don't do. Ironic.

What does culturally rich mean?

Layers upon layers of history, language, movement of people, art, music and civilisation going back to early times. Take your pick.

[Master Khan]

In Dubai their is no Crime at all, we use to walk around at 2 am with our bags etc.
Islamic laws is the best.

[imb706]

In Dubai their is no Crime at all, we use to walk around at 2 am with our bags etc.

Um...I walk at 2 am here in California. Is there no crime here? Someone saying it doesn't make it so.

Crybaby? Let's not mince words - is that what you are calling me?

Only if you were one of those rioters, of which I did not accuse you of.

My guess is that you know very little about the middle east and that your views are made up by the social setting in which you were raised. The middle east is a complicated place, just like the US is. We share that in common.

It's true I've never been to the Middle East, and I'm no expert on the region, but I have an okay grasp of what goes on there.

In my opinion stark contrasts in wealth and opportunity make places like Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan volatile whereas it makes places like Qatar, the UAE and Malaysia less so. All are examples of Muslim countries.

Well, Iraq is poor mostly by the US's making. Saddam may have been a brutal dictator, of which there can be no excuse for his actions, but he was making Iraq "the Japan of the Middle East" and he made it so iraqis could get free education and health care. Then the 90s come along and it all goes straight to hell. It has a long history of secularism. Yes, poverty creates differences and creates rifts, poverty should be battled, but it's not the reason people want to blow up a country over a cartoon.

People who call the middle east a craphole are the kinds of people who call Arabs Sand ******s and Afghans Towel Heads.

Not true, a craphole is a craphole, has nothing to do with the ethnicity. It's economics and social settings. The Middle East just happens to be a unproductive piece of backwater crap, it has nothing to do with the arabs or with any other racial group.

I'm surprised you censored yourself when you wrote that Fox all but calls Obama racist names.

I only censored because I don't know the rules of using the word. It's not a word I like obviously, but Fox News and Tea Partyers have called him that word in the past. It's sad.

However, the fact that it's illegal in the US to make racist remarks,

Lol, what? No it's not. There's no hate speech laws here and thank goodness. Sure, I'm no racist or sexist or have any hatred, but I support the right to hate. KKK, Nazis theyre all allowed here. They are terrible but it's their rights.

Yes, at the state level it is. But in the modern age, things change.

There you go again with that state media...

Al Jazeera has emerged as a real alternative media voice.

Being that it originates in Qatar, not the UAE, and that it's mostly pro arabic (not that I have anything against the network), it's a bad example.

have built up a voice of opposition and that they continually hold up a mirror and embarass Arab governments

Good for them, I support that. Though they base a lot of their stuff in the US and Iceland, so does that really count?

news stations playing videos of Osama.

I don't even watch arab media, why would I bother?

And you know, because you live here ... Wake up brother, you're sounding more a Southern redneck the more you go on.

If it wasn't for the Bible thumping idiocy and racism, I'd probably move to the South :P But I have to settle with Vermont to get the classic american experience, and the good health care. Anyway, that's not offensive to me. [quote] Most bloggers per population of people, are in fact just across the waters from here, in Iran. The US, despite being the biggest internet users, cannot boast the same quota. Why?

Perhaps its because 60% of Iranians are graduates who DO write.

Pretty low...(The US along with the rest of the West is 99 percent literate. don't get me wrong, I criticize US education very much, but that doesn't mean Iran is better) and what does that have to do with anything? Unless you mean 60 percent of iranians write, and uh...so? I'm sure they're very proud to be writing praises of their supreme leader and such. Whoopidee do. But don't go on Facebook and complain, because then you'll go to jail. Anyway, what evidence is that Iran blogs the most? And if so, who even cares?

Europeans, the Middle East, etc. are way better at not trusting their governments.

Europeans are sure, I'm sure Stephen Hill would sing praises of that. I sure do. Not middle easterners, I mean unless you count all that terrorism XD. Though the Tea Party, as bad as they are, shows theres not much trust in the US government.

Rupert Murdoch has his own - protect-Israel-at-all-costs agenda. n-----r

Yeah, israel, uh jews...er, nevermind.

even those who say they don't do. Ironic.

Yeah but I don't care what Fox News says. Just go to Media Matters to see all their bull**** debunked.