Ash'ariyyah, deviant sect of innovators

[Haneef]

I have answered all your question, step by step, if you can't read that's not my job. Muhammad `Ibn abdul wahhab was a curse to this ummah, and he was shunned by his brother & Father, so how does someone falsely accuse another when the overwhelming majority of the Ummah has refuted and shunned them? including their own family? That should give you a wake up call buddy.

So you in laymen terms do not understand anything yet you have the decency to discuss? HAHAHA...funny guy you are.

Have no adab & tarbia is a trait amongst you wahabis/salafis, everywhere you go, you fight and create fitnah, on a global and local level.

[Abu Hurayrah]

Salam Aleikom,

I think it is better for us not to fight or humiliate each other, because we disagree with one and other. While some of the ''Pashtun'' members here makes fun of the Qur'aan, the Prophet and the Ahkaam of our religion, we are busy with these fruitless discussions.

Imam Al Ash'ari explained his final statement and his aqeedah in Risalah ila Ahl al thaghr, Maqalat al Islaamiyien, and al Ibaanah. The Aqeedah of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, and the Aqeedah of Ahl e sunnat and the other three schools of thought. The first two stages of his Aqeedah in the beginning where clearly erroneous, since they where influenced by Mu'tazilah and the believe aqeeda of Ibn Kilab.

Since there is no prove to claim ''The hand of Allah'' means his power, or to claim that the Prophet peace be upon him, the Sahaba or the Tabiyin claimed this. That is why Imam ibn Kathir rahimahullah said concerning a verse from Surah Al A'raaf, ''bi la takyif'' , (Without philosophizing about the meaning) , wa la tashbih (Without comparing it with the makhluqaat), wa la ta'til (Without denouncing it),

Imam Ahmad said that the ''hand of Allah'' is Mutashabih and Dhahir, without (Al Kayf) the ''how''. So there are differences of opinion, but no one is comparing it with the makhluqaat.

[unknownprince]

Salam Aleikom,

I think it is better for us not to fight or humiliate each other, because we disagree with one and other. While some of the ''Pashtun'' members here makes fun of the Qur'aan, the Prophet and the Ahkaam of our religion, we are busy with these fruitless discussions.
.

Which Pashtun members are making fun of the Quran, and our Prophet(pbuh)? They should be removed from forums!!!

[شمله ور خراساني]

I have answered all your question, step by step, if you can't read that's not my job

You are obviously in denial. Everyone can read our conversation. So who are you fooling but yourself?

Muhammad `Ibn abdul wahhab was a curse to this ummah,

How about you, ash'arites who sit silently and allow people on this very forum to ridicule quran and sunnah and you say nothing. But you call a man who revived the true teachings of Islam as a curse?

This is a typical trait of people who are on the verge of nifaaq. Hostile to the believers and lenient to the disbelievers.

and he was shunned by his brother & Father,

Many prophets were shunned by their kinsmen. So should we denounce them as well?

so how does someone falsely accuse another when the overwhelming majority of the Ummah has refuted and shunned them?

Islam is not a religion solely based on majority opinion. In islam quran and sunnah are more important than mere opinions. Since you people cannot refute a scholar using quran and sunnah, what difference does it make whether there is a majority or a minority opinion?

including their own family?

The wife of Noah alay salaam did not accept his dawah. And he was a prophet. So who cares that ibn abdul wahhab's father and brother shunned him? He was just a scholar.

That should give you a wake up call buddy.

I am awake.

So you in laymen terms do not understand anything yet you have the decency to discuss?

Well, I as a layman have asked you "the scholar" very simple question. Instead of answering them, you are running away and avoiding my questions. So whats the matter?

HAHAHA...funny guy you are.

" ha ha ha" I know you find this very amusing. This is why you act so desperately.

Have no adab & tarbia is a trait amongst you wahabis/salafis, everywhere you go, you fight and create fitnah, on a global and local level.

Buddy, it was you and your Mujib singh buddy who started fighting and starting to be abusive.

If you are man enough to start a fight, then have the guts to finish it. Dont go running away squealing and weeping shouting adab and tarbiya. Since you lack both including courage.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Salam Aleikom,

I think it is better for us not to fight or humiliate each other, because we disagree with one and other. While some of the ''Pashtun'' members here makes fun of the Qur'aan, the Prophet and the Ahkaam of our religion, we are busy with these fruitless discussions.

I am not interesting in arguments with these mubtadis. But these spineless people have the nerve to go around and attack muslims and start abusing people yet, they can't even defend their own deviant sects false ideology.

As I have mentioned before. These spineless sufis and ash'aris are cowards. They allow people here to ridicule quran and sunnah and mock Muslims and our beliefs.

But they have no shame dignity. They go around and attack people calling people curse of the ummah and "wahhabi's".

So I think it is useful to confront these spineless people and give them some of their own medicine.

[Dust]

^Why is it that Muslims don't have tolerance among themselves? Why is it that one sect declares the other sect invalid. I would love to hear you out on this. Dera manana!

[شمله ور خراساني]

^Why is it that Muslims don't have tolerance among themselves? Why is it that one sect declares the other sect invalid. I would love to hear you out on this. Dera manana!

because of ignorance, misguidance and because people follow their own desires.

[Catya Sher]

I'm glad to hear that there are Shias amongst the Taliban, that it is a much more inclusive group. Which types, are they Hazara or from the Shia Pashtun tribes around Kurram Tribal Agency?
If you know or if you want to say...?

What about the Naqshbandis and Qadiris - how many are there of those who pledge loyalty to Mullah Omar?

Have any idea? I'm sure this could be not really too well known.
I'm very interested though what happened to those people who fought before.
Have they sided with the Taliban and put aside some of the differences in order to achieve a greater goal?

This fascinates me.

[Dust]

because of ignorance, misguidance and because people follow their own desires.

Is it their own desires or their interpretation of Islam that is the problem?

[شمله ور خراساني]

I'm glad to hear that there are Shias amongst the Taliban, that it is a much more inclusive group. Which types, are they Hazara or from the Shia Pashtun tribes around Kurram Tribal Agency?
If you know or if you want to say...?

What about the Naqshbandis and Qadiris - how many are there of those who pledge loyalty to Mullah Omar?

Have any idea? I'm sure this could be not really too well known.
I'm very interested though what happened to those people who fought before.
Have they sided with the Taliban and put aside some of the differences in order to achieve a greater goal?

This fascinates me.

You should read the article titled " Taliban beyond Pashtuns" by Antonio Giustozzi. Din posted here on PF few weeks ago.

There Giustozzi explains the diversity of different ethnicities among the modern taliban and the inclusion of Shi'ites.

About the Qadiris and Naqshbandis. A very large number muslims in Afghanisan belong to different Sufi orders. Particularly the Qadiri order is very prominent.

So obviously, a popular movement like the taliban will attract thousands of Sufis.

Unlike the rest of the world, the Sufis in Afghanistan are quite conservative people. They do not mistake themselves for pacifist hindus. They do occasionally fight when it is necessary. Most prominent warriors who defended Afghanistan in the past were Sufis. Proper ones. Not the evil grave worshiping criminals like the ones promoted by America today.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Is it their own desires or their interpretation of Islam that is the problem?

From the early age, division among Muslims came to existence because of political conflicts. Therefore, after those conflicts, Muslims were polarized into different camps.

The differences which were originally political by nature, eventually evolved into dogma.

Those dogmas have evolved into new creeds, and ideologies.

Peoples hunger for power, wealth, status and influence drives them to re-interpret Islam in a different fashion in order to distinguish themselves from others and to attract people to support them. They use certain verses and traditions as evidence by singling them out and rejecting the context.

This is how people have saught legitimacy for their political goals and objectives.

Religion is abused by people for personal desires and needs.

This is why, religion is not judged by its content, but by the actions of its adherants. And people assume that religion is by itself something bad. Because those who adhere to it, act evil.

[Catya Sher]

Oh thank you, I missed that article, I will read it for sure.

That's a great distinction = that was my overall impression but I wasn't sure about the real Sufi types - like Imam Shamyl of Daghestan, too - and - who would be on the other side of the balance - what type of Fake Sufi is presently in vogue then?

Are some of them, from what you say, loyal lackeys of the present gov?!!
Or, are they just supporting it from afar and staying away from any political involvement?
I'm just curious.

I wish all the Sufis will sign up to resist. Maybe there needs to be a campaign to explain to them that they are welcome. Some may fear that they would be hated by the mainstream Taliban types due to different approach to Islam.

If those fence-sitting Sufis could be won over the movement would have so much more power. I think. I'm no expert. Just intuition.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Oh thank you, I missed that article, I will read it for sure.

That's a great distinction = that was my overall impression but I wasn't sure about the real Sufi types - like Imam Shamyl of Daghestan, too - and - who would be on the other side of the balance - what type of Fake Sufi is presently in vogue then?

Are some of them, from what you say, loyal lackeys of the present gov?!!
Or, are they just supporting it from afar and staying away from any political involvement?
I'm just curious.

I wish all the Sufis will sign up to resist. Maybe there needs to be a campaign to explain to them that they are welcome. Some may fear that they would be hated by the mainstream Taliban types due to different approach to Islam.

If those fence-sitting Sufis could be won over the movement would have so much more power. I think. I'm no expert. Just intuition.

Sufism as an ideology is a deviance from the core spirituality of Islam. All though not all of Sufism is deviance, the fact is that modern Sufi movements are usually extremely deviant.

Of course some deviance is unavoidable because Muslims are not perfect.

But if you want make a clear distinction of who is a good sufi and who is a bad sufi, then use the saying of Ali Ibn Abi Taalib as an indication.

he said: if you want to know which group among the muslims is the good group, watch the arrows of the disbelievers and see towards whom those are pointed at.

Sufis like Hamza yusuf, Gibril Haddad, TJ Winter, Nu Ha Meem Keller, Hisham Kabbani etc are the ones who are praised and promoted by Western media.

But orthodox muslims like Taliban and others are demonized and persecuted as evil.

And those Sufis who support the Karzai government are people like Sibghatullah Mujadidi and Sayed Pir Jilani. THey were supporters of the late king Sahir shah. And they are now supporters of Karzai. In fact, Karzai was a member of Jilani's party in the 80's.

[unknownprince]

The Shias of the tribal agencies are actually Persians.Thats a joke. But i am sure their loyalty is with Iran over their fellow Pashtuns!!!

[unknownprince]

Sufism as an ideology is a deviance from the core spirituality of Islam. All though not all of Sufism is deviance, the fact is that modern Sufi movements are usually extremely deviant.

Of course some deviance is unavoidable because Muslims are not perfect.

But if you want make a clear distinction of who is a good sufi and who is a bad sufi, then use the saying of Ali Ibn Abi Taalib as an indication.

he said: if you want to know which group among the muslims is the good group, watch the arrows of the disbelievers and see towards whom those are pointed at.

Sufis like Hamza yusuf, Gibril Haddad, TJ Winter, Nu Ha Meem Keller, Hisham Kabbani etc are the ones who are praised and promoted by Western media.

But orthodox muslims like Taliban and others are demonized and persecuted as evil.

And those Sufis who support the Karzai government are people like Sibghatullah Mujadidi and Sayed Pir Jilani. THey were supporters of the late king Sahir shah. And they are now supporters of Karzai. In fact, Karzai was a member of Jilani's party in the 80's.

I didn't know the Taliban has Shiite members. This is news to me. Then I guess the Taliban does not exist anymore, and it is just becoming a Afghan national insurgency or something??? I know that the Taliban is anti-Shiite, but maybe the dynamics in Afghanistan and common xenophobia has changed things?