If God exists...

[Baygham]

Meemwawmeemnooon,
he took can ask you similar questions about Islam that you might not be able to answer. I think we should give him the answer of what he specifically asked for.

BTW Dangerous P. MWMN belongs to the Qadian school, considered Kafirs by fellow muslims in pakistan and Saudia. He should give us the answer that can exonirate him in the eyes of fellow muslims let alone become the defender of Islam against Christens. LOL

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Baygham, please don't start this again. This shows great weakness in your logic and capacity to hold an intellectual discussion and entertain a thought that you don't adhere to.

Everyone in the world holds a different belief. Those who claim that my beliefs are wrong are mostly likely considered wrong in the eyes of others. If the condition is to first prove your beliefs before one can venture to proving the existence of God and the truthfulness of Islam, then we would all be at a loss--not everyone would agree. Which means that we would no longer discuss anything in the world. Further, for if everyone would agree then there is no need to discuss anything any further! On both angles you have shot yourself in the foot.

I am a Muslim. I don't care what anyone says. I will defend the existence of God and i will defend the truthfulness of Islam anywhere.

So, if you don't have anything of positive to discuss, then please refrain from diverting the topic. This is such a pathetic attempt to subdue someone who can defend the existence of God.

[Baygham]

Baygham, please don't start this again. This shows great weakness in your logic and capacity to hold an intellectual discussion and entertain a thought that you don't adhere to.

Everyone in the world holds a different belief. Those who claim that my beliefs are wrong are mostly likely considered wrong in the eyes of others. If the condition is to first prove your beliefs before one can venture to proving the existence of God and the truthfulness of Islam, then we would all be at a loss--not everyone would agree. Which means that we would no longer discuss anything in the world. Further, for if everyone would agree then there is no need to discuss anything any further! On both angles you have shot yourself in the foot.

I am a Muslim. I don't care what anyone says. I will defend the existence of God and i will defend the truthfulness of Islam anywhere.

So, if you don't have anything of positive to discuss, then please refrain from diverting the topic. This is such a pathetic attempt to subdue someone who can defend the existence of God.

Your own position is so shaky, that it is absolutely no fun arguing stuff with you. I prefer someone on less shaky ground. No offense it is what it is.
Its like me protecting hindu lord krishna, or pretending to be a conservative tea party activist. Your name MOMIN, again an attempt, a strong wish, to belong with the pack, a pack that does not want you, must hurt, I agree. I would feel the same if left out of the pack, well if I go to a mosque and say, 'Allah sucks' what do you think they will do to me. So I dont. But I dont try to pass as one of them and take their side and feel cosy and being part of the clan, keeping my little secret and laughing inside. Lesson, If you cant pass on as something in broad daylight, than dont. it will only hurt in the long run.
One should take positions commensurate to their standing. We have been through this, all you are doing is pretending to be a muslim and getting hurt over and over again. Accept your religion and move on. Have you ever seen me try to pass as a 'tableeghi', no.

[spogmai shaglay]

Does anybody know Urdu here....

Jaisi karni waisi bharni, na maane to karke dekh...
jannat bhi hai dozakh bhi hai na maane to marke dekh....

the one who doubt the existence of God or dont believe... pleas be patient.....when we will die everything is going to be clear....

[Khan]

The "snake in the grass" is back in PF.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin wror welcome back, you were missed by all. I am still waiting for your response that I asked you months ago.

Dera manana!

Are referring to all the sects, dear sister?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Your own position is so shaky, that it is absolutely no fun arguing stuff with you. I prefer someone on less shaky ground. No offense it is what it is.
Its like me protecting hindu lord krishna, or pretending to be a conservative tea party activist. Your name MOMIN, again an attempt, a strong wish, to belong with the pack, a pack that does not want you, must hurt, I agree. I would feel the same if left out of the pack, well if I go to a mosque and say, 'Allah sucks' what do you think they will do to me. So I dont. But I dont try to pass as one of them and take their side and feel cosy and being part of the clan, keeping my little secret and laughing inside. Lesson, If you cant pass on as something in broad daylight, than dont. it will only hurt in the long run.
One should take positions commensurate to their standing. We have been through this, all you are doing is pretending to be a muslim and getting hurt over and over again. Accept your religion and move on. Have you ever seen me try to pass as a 'tableeghi', no.

I hope you did not think that you just wrote a masterpiece. You are so confused that you are incoherent.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

God exists, the problem is knowing which God you follow being right.

Einstein a genius believed in God didnt he?

I would rephrase by saying: The true description of God. There is only one God.

[Baygham]

I agree but how does one explain all these sects to a non Muslim?

I believe in a God that acutally does not exist outside a human head, he lives in the infinite synapses that make up a human brain especially of the faithful and serves a purpose by soothing their anxieties. In other brains of the atheists he serves as a negative entity and is focused on for ills in the world.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I agree but how does one explain all these sects to a non Muslim?

WOW!

I have never come across such depth in thought and honesty in one sentence. Bravo!

Why do you think that the Prophet (saw) prophesied about the Latter Day reformer? A Divine Community would be created by Allah (yes, a sect created by Allah within Islam) in order to correct the original message. Otherwise, there would be no need to have any Latter Day reformer.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I believe in a God that acutally does not exist outside a human head, he lives in the infinite synapses that make up a human brain especially of the faithful and serves a purpose by soothing their anxieties. In other brains of the atheists he serves as a negative entity and is focused on for ills in the world.

To be lazy is easy. To be spoon fed is easy. To be rebellious is easy. To cause destruction is easy. To reject God is easy. The opposite of these is difficult.

[Baygham]

Baygham at what stage in your life did you realize God doesn't exist? How does something like the win operate.

What is your purpose in the world Baygham?

I would say by 19, still in watan, living with very conservative parents, typical overpowering father, religious to the core. Sunni muslims with sufi inclinations. Strict parda for the women and such. Overall your typical pashtoon family.

Beliefs I realized later are a cage, unless your circumstances change, you cannot escape from them. Thus if you are born a hindu, you will stay a hindu, even if you wanted to change, you are connected to being a hindu through the love of your parents, siblings, community. If you change you risk being ostracised. These restrictions are on your intellect as well. If you lose religion what will become of your purpose in life, how will you tell right from wrong, what if you die will there be an after life and if yes you will go to hell.

These are major questions, major stumbling blocks that you have to resolve one by one. Some find love and solace withen their beliefs. Others less fortunate, like me, such things dont happen and you can thus drift in search of something better.

The suffering endured by our people is emence. The uncertianities in life in a chaotic uncertian environment tremendous. I was fortunate to be shielded from all that by a cacoon around us. This both insulated against danger but allowed free departure off the beaten path. When you are not worried about what you gonna eat, what will happen to your roof, are you going to be sick, will you find love, continue to be loved by loved ones. Once released of these fears, the need for prayers and beggings from an almighty being decreases. Soon you start questioning why am I doing this or that and one by one the walls come down.

Why would a sane person risk the love of parents, siblings, community and in our case be labelled murtad and risk being killed, and then sign up for eternal hell, where God will burn you and take your skin off and dip you in molten lava for being a murtad. Why? it is not easy trust me.

There is only one thing that is more precious than any idea of a soothing God in ones head together with all the love of believing kin and promises of eternal heaven, and that is the knowledge "that sell me whatever, but sir I will not be duped by your bull s h i t" attitude towards those that profit from selling you this soothing tincture called Allah in our part of the world. A God for which so much has been destroyed, so many sacrifised, so many dreams shattered, so much pain generated.

When released from your chains, chains of love, wealth, eternal bliss, all connected to this one blind belief, only than in the comfort of nothing is your mind free to negate it all.

Soon love, wealth and bliss finds its way in places you never new existed. Places that does not require to belittle and dehumanize others, that does not want you to increase suffering in the world with an idea to improve afterlife. A place much more peaceful and more humane.

[Dust]

I would say by 19, still in watan, living with very conservative parents, typical overpowering father, religious to the core. Sunni muslims with sufi inclinations. Strict parda for the women and such. Overall your typical pashtoon family.

Beliefs I realized later are a cage, unless your circumstances change, you cannot escape from them. Thus if you are born a hindu, you will stay a hindu, even if you wanted to change, you are connected to being a hindu through the love of your parents, siblings, community. If you change you risk being ostracised. These restrictions are on your intellect as well. If you lose religion what will become of your purpose in life, how will you tell right from wrong, what if you die will there be an after life and if yes you will go to hell.

These are major questions, major stumbling blocks that you have to resolve one by one. Some find love and solace withen their beliefs. Others less fortunate, like me, such things dont happen and you can thus drift in search of something better.

The suffering endured by our people is emence. The uncertianities in life in a chaotic uncertian environment tremendous. I was fortunate to be shielded from all that by a cacoon around us. This both insulated against danger but allowed free departure off the beaten path. When you are not worried about what you gonna eat, what will happen to your roof, are you going to be sick, will you find love, continue to be loved by loved ones. Once released of these fears, the need for prayers and beggings from an almighty being decreases. Soon you start questioning why am I doing this or that and one by one the walls come down.

Why would a sane person risk the love of parents, siblings, community and in our case be labelled murtad and risk being killed, and then sign up for eternal hell, where God will burn you and take your skin off and dip you in molten lava for being a murtad. Why? it is not easy trust me.

There is only one thing that is more precious than any idea of a soothing God in ones head together with all the love of believing kin and promises of eternal heaven, and that is the knowledge "that sell me whatever, but sir I will not be duped by your bull s h i t" attitude towards those that profit from selling you this soothing tincture called Allah in our part of the world. A God for which so much has been destroyed, so many sacrifised, so many dreams shattered, so much pain generated.

When released from your chains, chains of love, wealth, eternal bliss, all connected to this one blind belief, only than in the comfort of nothing is your mind free to negate it all.

Soon love, wealth and bliss finds its way in places you never new existed. Places that does not require to belittle and dehumanize others, that does not want you to increase suffering in the world with an idea to improve afterlife. A place much more peaceful and more humane.

I have to be fair here and step in. One must not make religion the scape-goat of one's own inabilities and cowardice.

Your story, albeit, might be very touching, but what you stand on is a false premise. You are the prison of your own logic and miscalculations.

Would it be fair to say that your dilemma is not related with religion at all? Because if it was, then you would have to prove that the problems that exist are the result of the teachings of that religion. Can you do that? Rather, I think, it is your own inability, due to your own complexes, to stand up for yourself. You seem to be a calculating person who is selfish and lack the ability and the courage to lose it all for your own liberation.

Further, the irony of the matter, is that being freed does not have any element of reality to it, it is a delusion among unrealistic people. Whichever shape, way or form you slice the cake, the end conclusion is that man is always attached to something and is always limited by certain forces or laws that oblige him to be obedient. One example, is the laws of any country.

What you have said might be a good case for a psychiatrist to figure out, but does not prove the nonexistence of God.

[Abu Hurayrah]

Believing in one Ilah means believing in Allah, without seeing him, but accepting that he does see you and your actions, this is called Ehsaan.

I don't think we need scientific formula's to prove the existence of Allah because believing in Allah and in de Akhira is also part of the Ghayb (hidden/unseen). This is a crucial element of believing. But you could use a simple line of logic to conclude that intelligence or matter can not come into existence without information. You could also say the world and the universe is a painting, which has a painter/creator. It is also beyond any kind of logic to say that there is nothing, no balance and no responsibility for actions.

[Abu Hurayrah]

I believe the best argument the atheists have is: If God created the universe, who created God? Or how did God come into being? The theists don't have a good explanation for this, as their only answer is: "It's illogical to ask where God came from." How's that illogical? True, the chain HAS to break somewhere (that is, Z was created by Y was created by X was created by ...), but why're we deciding that it breaks right at the moment God comes up in the discussion? The universe cannot sustain itself, the universe can't be originated by itself -- but God can be? How and why? And how do we know this?

You can not assume the same principles work on God, he is not alike his creation, the laws of physics and other are not to be used on the creator for this would be comparing God with his creation, which is an invalid viewpoint. - Surah Ikhlas