If God exists...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Life is not as simple as "live life and die." It is full of algorithms. There is so much that dictate your every move in life.

Let me put it this way to you: If life was about "live life and die" then why do we wish for progress in society?

[Baygham]

I don't think God exists at all. I think this is just a character created to control the population.

First, agnosticpashtana, great to see you here. Only a few years ago, I would have paid a million dollars to see one. Thanks for saving me a lot of money and existing. Now I pay for a true pashtoon mullah omar mureed who can type in english.

secondly, the eternal question, God, and why God.

God exists, nobody can deny that, we can argue about what form his existence take, but does he exist, well ask the billions of believers, as well as the naysayers that talk about nothing else but God as well. Something that prevalent must surely exist. But how?

Say we agree with all this hoopla, and lets go in search of this God. Lets find him in the deepest crevices and caves. Mo did all those years ago, may be we will too. But where should we start.

Lets start right here and now. I am sitting on a chair at a table, is he here, I sense something, let me feel around. No cant feel his softness, or hardness. Let me look around, no nothing, I see a bottle of water (was about to say wine, but corrected myself since a response from seen,noon, gaff,ray is not on my wish list at the moment). So I cannot see him/her either.

Lets smell if he stinks or has a refreshing aroma. No again.

Call me allah, for my other senses are useless. Dead silence.

Maybe I am a sinner or he has a day off. Lets google for historical sightings. Some crazy stuff about horses flying, rivers of honey and mountains burning, hardly believable; otherwise nothing.

But I am going to find this God otherwise I will not sleep, lets close my eyes. Still nothing.

Oh, what is that, a lump on my scalp, that is for sure not God. God where are you, Lump on my head, God where could he be, lump on my head, Let me check this lump again. it wasnt there last month, is it cancer, dad died of cancer, melanoma may be. Oh, God what is it. I am going to check it first thing in the morning. God let it not be a melanoma. I dont want to die.

And thus I stumbled upon God. To soothe my anxieties, to cling to in darkness, to fill up the unknown. God, my God, my creation for my benefit, until...........

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

We wish for progress so our future generations can not face the same hardships we face today.

Correct! And the dictates of a progressed society lies in ethics and morals. How could this be without design? How could a non-designed product think of this? If human being were not designed then deliberation would have never been part of our lives. You can't deliberate if you can't think. You can only think if you have logic. And, logic needs to be set out before hand before it can guide thinking.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I don't understand how all has to do with faith. I am a Muslim but these are questions that are running through my head.

X being a Muslim and
Z not being a Muslim

What advantages does X have over Z except the threats of him going to a place called hell? Why has Allah cursed us with the most backward societies in the world why all the non-Muslim countries are powerful and advanced?

Faith, in Islam, means the belief in the unseen. Faith does not mean to believe in something blindly. Note the difference, beloved brother.

As far as who ends up in Hell or Heaven is a matter that only God can judge. According to the Holy Quran other people will also be Heaven. Allah will not judge everyone by the Quran. The concept that only a Muslim will go to Heaven is not an Islamic teaching. It is cultural, and it has been interpolated with the Islamic culture, but its grounds cannot be found in the Quran.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

So the notion only Muslims can go to heaven is not true?

Of course, not!

Here is the deal dearest brother:

1. You never asked to come to this world
   1. When you came to this world, you never asked who your parents should be
   2. When you came to this world, you never asked what your gender should be
   3. When you came to this world, you never asked what your ethnicity should be
   4. When you came to this world, you never asked what your social status should be
   5. When you came to this world, you never asked what your religion should be
   
   
2. Once you were sent to this world, you were given free-will
3. A point comes that you die, and you don't get to choose when it will be.

Considering the above, how could God throw you in Hell if you choose a path that is not the same as the rest in society. Logic was designed by God, so how is it possible that a secularist and pluralistic society is more tolerant towards all religions, and God (who by the way is the designer of religion) is not? Not possible.

Even an Atheist would be judged by the yard-stick of his morals.

[AgnosticPashtana]

First, agnosticpashtana, great to see you here. Only a few years ago, I would have paid a million dollars to see one. Thanks for saving me a lot of money and existing. Now I pay for a true pashtoon mullah omar mureed who can type in english.

secondly, the eternal question, God, and why God.

God exists, nobody can deny that, we can argue about what form his existence take, but does he exist, well ask the billions of believers, as well as the naysayers that talk about nothing else but God as well. Something that prevalent must surely exist. But how?

Say we agree with all this hoopla, and lets go in search of this God. Lets find him in the deepest crevices and caves. Mo did all those years ago, may be we will too. But where should we start.

Lets start right here and now. I am sitting on a chair at a table, is he here, I sense something, let me feel around. No cant feel his softness, or hardness. Let me look around, no nothing, I see a bottle of water (was about to say wine, but corrected myself since a response from seen,noon, gaff,ray is not on my wish list at the moment). So I cannot see him/her either.

Lets smell if he stinks or has a refreshing aroma. No again.

Call me allah, for my other senses are useless. Dead silence.

Maybe I am a sinner or he has a day off. Lets google for historical sightings. Some crazy stuff about horses flying, rivers of honey and mountains burning, hardly believable; otherwise nothing.

But I am going to find this God otherwise I will not sleep, lets close my eyes. Still nothing.

Oh, what is that, a lump on my scalp, that is for sure not God. God where are you, Lump on my head, God where could he be, lump on my head, Let me check this lump again. it wasnt there last month, is it cancer, dad died of cancer, melanoma may be. Oh, God what is it. I am going to check it first thing in the morning. God let it not be a melanoma. I dont want to die.

And thus I stumbled upon God. To soothe my anxieties, to cling to in darkness, to fill up the unknown. God, my God, my creation for my benefit, until...........

This is how I feel as well. I just want someone to convince me that he exists or tell me something that would make sense he exists.

This is similar to a Philosophy course I took years ago, its about your inner belief. When you tell a Hindu, polytheism is wrong. He will never agree with you, why is that you might ask? Because he has been born in to Hinduism and he has studied Hinduism and to him and his 700million peers only Hinduism makes sense. Similarly to the Muslims here, they are born into the Religion probably 1 out of a million converted and the minute you object that it does not exist, they will out of insecurity badmouth us. I just want to see the light. If he exists, why hasn't science after 1400 years verify this?


nice to meet you Baygham.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Revelations is in the plural! There has been many revelations.

Further, the language is metaphorical. Moreover, a period or phase of Hell might be needed as a transitory stage, for Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

[AgnosticPashtana]

Revelations is in the plural! There has been many revelations.

Further, the language is metaphorical. Moreover, a period or phase of Hell might be needed as a transitory stage, for Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

since I am currently rejecting your revelations with an "s", I will go to hell? Is God mean? What if I cant make up my mind and I have yet to meet someone convincing who can help me come back to the "true path".

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You see, dear friend, it all boils down to honesty and sincerity. If you possess both of these in your quest and still reject God, then how can you be held accountable? However, truth is truth. If truth is that God does not exist then you are safe! And if He does exist, then He would know of your situation. At this point there is a transitory period to bring you update with the purpose of your creation before you move on to the next stage. There are infinite stages to the purpose of life. It is not a done deal with death, and then you go to Heaven and enjoy. No, of course not. There are many more phases necessary before man can reach his ultimate purpose. Only a few actually reach it in this life, and is the state of Al Nafs Al Mutmainah.

Keep in mind that a PhD is not granted to someone simply because he pleads inability to comprehend.

[AgnosticPashtana]

You see, dear friend, it all boils down to honesty and sincerity. If you possess both of these in your quest and still reject God, then how can you be held accountable? However, truth is truth. If truth is that God does not exist then you are safe! And if He does exist, then He would know of your situation.

Keep in mind that a PhD is not granted to someone simply because he pleads inability to comprehend.

This is the problem. You and I define truth differently. I am open-minded and I have yet to say anything bad about Islam. I just think Islam is a man-made Religion, sort of like a Govt.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

How could it be man-made? What ideas and concepts do you find in Islam that suggest it to be man-made?

By the way, I edited my previous post to you.

[AgnosticPashtana]

Quran: 5:51: Oh ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

I think a quote like this tells me that Islam was made for its specific group at the time to have it unified for its purposes.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

How would you analyze these verses with respect to what you have referred to:?

[60:8] Allah forbids you not, respecting those who have not fought against you on account of your religion, and who have not driven you forth from your homes, that you be kind to them and act equitably towards them; surely Allah loves those who are equitable.

[60:9] Allah only forbids you, respecting those who have fought against you on account of your religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and have helped others in driving you out, that you make friends of them, and whosoever makes friends of them — it is these that are the transgressors.

[AgnosticPashtana]

What I am trying to say is, what makes your Religion any different than the thousands of Religions that came before you?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

First of all, dear friend, you can't bring up points and then ignore them when they are being addressed. In this manner you will always reject God.

To answer your question: Every religion is an entity by itself and a part of Islam. Islam is the evolution of the summit of religions.

ps

i would like us to focus on the verse you brought up as an example to show that Islam is man-made.