Why did a Homosexual Philosopher Love Sufism?

[akbarkhan]

LOL the Qur'an in itself is one long poem, now you're gonna tell me poetry is bad?

The beauty of Sufism and Rumi's poetry is clearly visible unless you're one of those who take Islam to an extent where you don't even allow yourself room to breathe and suffocate under the weight of prohibitions and regulations that you've brought upon yourself. Relax. Islam is to bring benefit to mankind and prevent harm. Not a punishment, but the most beautiful gift there is, subhanAllah.

No need to 'lol' dear.

Qur'an is not a poem, ask any scholar of Islam. Furthermore, the verse I quoted was from Quran and its Tafsir al-Jalalayn.

With that said, I am not implying that all poetry is wasteful, surely in some there is wisdom but poets who talk of wine, taverns, drunkardness, and are claiming that such words have deeper metaphorical meanings are talking non-sense and infact misleading many if not all their audience.

And before you jump into any conclusions, let me clarify that I am not a Wahabi or Salafi - just a plain clothed Muslim.

[akbarkhan]

I thought this a pashtoon discussion. Why are you quoting 'arab folklore'. And what does that prove. That beduoins dont like poets. So what do I care. I dont care if the chimpanzees in africa dont appreciate poetry, or for that matter intellectuals in Paris been ignorant of pashto. Does not bother me one bit.

I like Hamza, Ghani, Rumi, Rehman. Could care less about bedouin heritage, dont understand a word of it and have no desire to learn in my advanced state of decay.

Pashtun discussion? Is that what the entire world revolves around?

[Mayana]

Well, if enjoying gay poetry is whats on offer for us, then we rather suffocate within the boundaries of Shariah.

Hold your horses. It's poetry.
Gay is what your dense mind has labeled it.

No need to 'lol' dear.

Qur'an is not a poem, ask any scholar of Islam. Furthermore, the verse I quoted was from Quran and its Tafsir al-Jalalayn.

With that said, I am not implying that all poetry is wasteful, surely in some there is wisdom but poets who talk of wine, taverns, drunkardness, and are claiming that such words have deeper metaphorical meanings are talking non-sense and infact misleading many if not all their audience.

And before you jump into any conclusions, let me clarify that I am not a Wahabi or Salafi - just a plain clothed Muslim.

No need to call me "dear" either

If one fails to comprehend poetry and its beauty that is not the poets fault - that is just the individuals limited capability. If you take taverns, wine, drunkenness in Rumi's poetry literally than you not only insult Rumi to be some dense and narrow moron - no you insult yourself to be not able to understand the basics of poetry - metaphors and allegories.


As many here like to ignore, let me remind all of us:


I am the servant of the Qur'an as long as I have life.
I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the Chosen one.
If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings,
I am quit of him and outraged by these words.
...
[--Rumi's Quatrain No. 1173, translated by Ibrahim Gamard and
Ravan Farhadi in 'The Quatrains of Rumi,' an unpublished
manuscript]

[amna.]

I see no correlation between Homosexuality and Sufism. Rumi wrote brilliant poems, he was an Afghan lets thank him for his poetic contributions

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

People who lack in-depth thinking capabilities think that just because something does not make sense to them that it is wrong.

[IamDZJ]

immeasurable love comes with no conditions but every one doesn't live enough to understand it.

[akbarkhan]

No need to call me "dear" either

'Dear' was a metaphor, perhaps beyond your comprehension.

If one fails to comprehend poetry and its beauty that is not the poets fault - that is just the individuals limited capability. If you take taverns, wine, drunkenness in Rumi's poetry literally than you not only insult Rumi to be some dense and narrow moron - no you insult yourself to be not able to understand the basics of poetry - metaphors and allegories.

Having a library full of Hafiz, Rumi, Bedil, Rahman, Browning, Kipling, T S Eliot, Gibran etc etc, I believe in my humble and lowly abode of existence you will find some capacity of comprehension even if not that great!

Infact, you might even find a few poems back from days of my blossoming youth.

I am walking away from city lights
In search of wonder like nomads
For simplicity I strive
O what of this world
And its deceitful ornaments
Where minds are imprisoned in darkness
And pens ink without rational thought
Seven seas can not quench my thirst
Greed please! don't hold me back
I am seeking a divine drop


But of course, when I discovered how useless poetry was, I left it for hopeless romantics like you

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^Since when do you use metaphors?

You have been mocking "metaphors" all along.

A sign of a dishonest man: whenever something suits him he calls it halal, whenever the same thing does not suit him but suits others he calls it haram.

[Baygham]

Pashtun discussion? Is that what the entire world revolves around?

my world does,

Here we will discuss what ever is pashtoon, Pir BABA, Rehman baba, Khushal Khan, you name it we will talk about them.

If you are interested in arab folklore, visit their sites.

BTW petro dollars may have converted a lot of 'grave worshipers' into proper saudi approved slaves of the wahabi sect, but dont forget that the number of wahabis prior to 1975 in pakhtun land were probably less than a hundred. Were all pashtoons including your and my forefathers idol worshiping idiots that saw the day of light only after the patrol prices shot through the roof.

Give me a break and serve your deobandi (punjabi) and wahabi (saudi) lords under some other pretext. A few years from now you will be singing religious hymns in chinese when that economy gets more stronger "aw laggee ooba dhar banday rapreeedhi".

[Son of Mountains]

Sufism is essence of every worship. I dont find anything ill (or homosexal type) in any Sufi of history.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I thought this a pashtoon discussion.

The discussion was suppose to be about the homosexual Foucault's love with Sufism.

How did you conclude that it is a Pashtun discussion?

Are you trying to insult Pashtuns?

[Baygham]

The discussion was suppose to be about the homosexual Foucault's love with Sufism.

How did you conclude that it is a Pashtun discussion?

Are you trying to insult Pashtuns?

MY and Your forefathers were as you put it 'grave wroshippers', prior to that they were either this or that pagan sect. So while the pagan generation is long dead the 'grave wroshippers' are not only alive but in majority. You on the other hand have decided to convert to Wahabism for the temptation of petro dollars is much strong just like the temptation of soviet rubles tempted some to switch to communism, both went against the values of our elders and the majority and thus the ongoing blood shed.

I remember the Qadianies enjoying british patronage and a lot of peaple joined them to advance worldly status. Just like the Shudras in India converting to Islam to advance from untouchables to just poor.

On a purely intellecutal basis, believe whatever God pleases you and if it puts some money in your pocket, God bless you for your intellect in arranging that convienience. But dont resort to voilence, murder and bloodshed, because you are uncomfortable with your moral choice in foregoing your forefathers way for a few bucks. Take it out in some other constructive way, like be nice to those that have not reached your conclusions and are still clinging on to other belief patterns.

What if tommorow you get influenced by chinese communism or Hinduism or for that matter secular capitalists. In whatever quest you choose dont forget to enhance the worldly gains of your community, dont just promise them in heaven and kill them here.

[Millatpal Noorzai]

MY and Your forefathers were as you put it 'grave wroshippers', prior to that they were either this or that pagan sect. So while the pagan generation is long dead the 'grave wroshippers' are not only alive but in majority. You on the other hand have decided to convert to Wahabism for the temptation of petro dollars is much strong just like the temptation of soviet rubles tempted some to switch to communism, both went against the values of our elders and the majority and thus the ongoing blood shed.

I remember the Qadianies enjoying british patronage and a lot of peaple joined them to advance worldly status. Just like the Shudras in India converting to Islam to advance from untouchables to just poor.

On a purely intellecutal basis, believe whatever God pleases you and if it puts some money in your pocket, God bless you for your intellect in arranging that convienience. But dont resort to voilence, murder and bloodshed, because you are uncomfortable with your moral choice in foregoing your forefathers way for a few bucks. Take it out in some other constructive way, like be nice to those that have not reached your conclusions and are still clinging on to other belief patterns.

What if tommorow you get influenced by chinese communism or Hinduism or for that matter secular capitalists. In whatever quest you choose dont forget to enhance the worldly gains of your community, dont just promise them in heaven and kill them here.

*Beghama wrora just wanted to point out that MEEMWAWMEEMNOON (self pro caimed Momin) is also a Qadyani and is willing to die for it (his own statement).

[شمله ور خراساني]

MY and Your forefathers were as you put it 'grave wroshippers', prior to that they were either this or that pagan sect. So while the pagan generation is long dead the 'grave wroshippers' are not only alive but in majority. You on the other hand have decided to convert to Wahabism for the temptation of petro dollars is much strong just like the temptation of soviet rubles tempted some to switch to communism, both went against the values of our elders and the majority and thus the ongoing blood shed.

I remember the Qadianies enjoying british patronage and a lot of peaple joined them to advance worldly status. Just like the Shudras in India converting to Islam to advance from untouchables to just poor.

On a purely intellecutal basis, believe whatever God pleases you and if it puts some money in your pocket, God bless you for your intellect in arranging that convienience. But dont resort to voilence, murder and bloodshed, because you are uncomfortable with your moral choice in foregoing your forefathers way for a few bucks. Take it out in some other constructive way, like be nice to those that have not reached your conclusions and are still clinging on to other belief patterns.

What if tommorow you get influenced by chinese communism or Hinduism or for that matter secular capitalists. In whatever quest you choose dont forget to enhance the worldly gains of your community, dont just promise them in heaven and kill them here.

Bla bla bla typical emotional rant from the pashtun nationalist camp.

You have dodged my challenges. And in return you rant like that other dude MasloomYarMasud.

Is this the best you Pashtun Nationalist can come up with?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar where is your challenge?

read my posts in this thread.