Kufriyaat of Tariq Jameel

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Layman like you is not allowed issuing Kufr fatwa against some body. If some qualified scholar from your wahabi sect has issued Kufr fatwa against Tariq Jamil, then post his name.

You obviously don't know the types of takfeer. Its okay, I already explained the difference before: Takfeer is not the same as issuing a death sentence

Only when a punishment is given, then there is a fatwa necessary from a scholar. But making takfeer on Tariq Jameel is not issuing fatwa. It's observing and affirming the observation.

Just like when someone steals a golden watch and is seen by a witness. The witness affirms what he has observed and says: I saw you stealing, you are a thief. When the thief is apprehended and judged, then a judge issues a ruling.

These things are two seperate things.

I am wondering what they are teaching you in those Paki deobandi madrassah.s Because it sure doesn't seem to look like you have understood anything from Islam yet.

[Samandri]

You obviously don't know the types of takfeer. Its okay, I already explained the difference before: Takfeer is not the same as issuing a death sentence

Only when a punishment is given, then there is a fatwa necessary from a scholar. But making takfeer on Tariq Jameel is not issuing fatwa. It's observing and affirming the observation.

Just like when someone steals a golden watch and is seen by a witness. The witness affirms what he has observed and says: I saw you stealing, you are a thief. When the thief is apprehended and judged, then a judge issues a ruling.

These things are two seperate things.

I am wondering what they are teaching you in those Paki deobandi madrassah.s Because it sure doesn't seem to look like you have understood anything from Islam yet.

From where you are getting the idea that i am some Talib or graduate from Deoband's madrassa?. Calling some one of Tariq Jamil caliber , a Kafir, is not a trivial light issue or observation. No matter what is your explanation and logic, you are not permitted to do Takfeer on Tariq Jameel . You are a layman, not a wahabi aalim.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

From where you are getting the idea that i am some Talib or graduate from Deoband's madrassa?. Calling some one of Tariq Jamil caliber , a Kafir, is not a trivial light issue or observation. No matter what is your explanation and logic, you are not permitted to do Takfeer on Tariq Jameel . You are a layman, not a wahabi aalim.

Since you talk about religion, I assume you have at least spent a few years studying religion. If you haven't then you have no business posting in this thread because you are not qualified to comment.

With regards to deobandi tableeghi super star molvi Tariq Jameel, he is a person like anybody else. If you see him drinking alcohol, are you going to ask a scholar to confirm what you have seen with your own eyes?

The guy is clearly stating that cursing sahaba and making takfeer on sahaba is not kufr. WHy would I need someone else to tell me what I can see and hear with my own eyes and ears?

[Samandri]

Since you talk about religion, I assume you have at least spent a few years studying religion. If you haven't then you have no business posting in this thread because you are not qualified to comment.

With regards to deobandi tableeghi super star molvi Tariq Jameel, he is a person like anybody else. If you see him drinking alcohol, are you going to ask a scholar to confirm what you have seen with your own eyes?

The guy is clearly stating that cursing sahaba and making takfeer on sahaba is not kufr. WHy would I need someone else to tell me what I can see and hear with my own eyes and ears?

Its ulema's job to analyze Tariq Jamil's statements, you are simply not eligible.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Its ulema's job to analyze Tariq Jamil's statements, you are simply not eligible.

Give me proof from Quran and sunnah that it is ulema's job, not laymen's job to make takfeer. Do you have any proof for this from Qur'an and Sunnah? If not, at least from Abu Haneefa, or Imam Abu Yusuf, maybe Muhammed ibn Hassan ash Shaybani?

Give me a quote from Ibn Abideen SHaami, Mullah Ali Qaari al Hanafi, Imam Tahawi. Anyone from major scholars of Hanafi madhab who have said what you are saying.

If you have no evidence from Qur'an and Sunnah and if you have no evidence from major scholars of Hanafi school, not some modern deobandi innovator, then you hare lying against the religion of Islam.

Lying or inventing rulings about Islam is also kufr.

[Samandri]

Give me proof from Quran and sunnah that it is ulema's job, not laymen's job to make takfeer. Do you have any proof for this from Qur'an and Sunnah? If not, at least from Abu Haneefa, or Imam Abu Yusuf, maybe Muhammed ibn Hassan ash Shaybani?

Give me a quote from Ibn Abideen SHaami, Mullah Ali Qaari al Hanafi, Imam Tahawi. Anyone from major scholars of Hanafi madhab who have said what you are saying.

If you have no evidence from Qur'an and Sunnah and if you have no evidence from major scholars of Hanafi school, not some modern deobandi innovator, then you hare lying against the religion of Islam.

Lying or inventing rulings about Islam is also kufr.

Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak:



The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever swears by a religion other than Islam (i.e. if he swears by saying that he is a non-Muslim in case he is telling a lie), then he is as he says if his oath is false and whoever commits suicide with something, will be punished with the same thing in the (Hell) fire, and cursing a believer is like murdering him, and who ever accuses a believer of disbelief, then it is as if he had killed him."



حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا وُهَيْبٌ، حَدَّثَنَا أَيُّوبُ، عَنْ أَبِي قِلاَبَةَ، عَنْ ثَابِتِ بْنِ الضَّحَّاكِ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ " مَنْ حَلَفَ بِمِلَّةٍ غَيْرِ الإِسْلاَمِ كَاذِبًا فَهْوَ كَمَا قَالَ، وَمَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ بِشَىْءٍ عُذِّبَ بِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ، وَلَعْنُ الْمُؤْمِنِ كَقَتْلِهِ، وَمَنْ رَمَى مُؤْمِنًا بِكُفْرٍ فَهْوَ كَقَتْلِهِ ".

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6105In-book reference : Book 78, Hadith 132USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 126

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/78/132

[Samandri]

Narrated Abu Dhar:



That he heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying, "If somebody accuses another of Fusuq (by calling him 'Fasiq' i.e. a wicked person) or accuses him of Kufr, such an accusation will revert to him (i.e. the accuser) if his companion (the accused) is innocent."


حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مَعْمَرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْوَارِثِ، عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ، حَدَّثَنِي يَحْيَى بْنُ يَعْمَرَ، أَنَّ أَبَا الأَسْوَدِ الدِّيلِيَّ، حَدَّثَهُ عَنْ أَبِي ذَرٍّ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ " لاَ يَرْمِي رَجُلٌ رَجُلاً بِالْفُسُوقِ، وَلاَ يَرْمِيهِ بِالْكُفْرِ، إِلاَّ ارْتَدَّتْ عَلَيْهِ، إِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ صَاحِبُهُ كَذَلِكَ ".

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6045In-book reference : Book 78, Hadith 75USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 71 (deprecated numbering scheme)

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/78/75

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

lol, you do realize you are only embarrassing yourself by posting a Hadith that says nothing about the question posed.

Don't be such a coward. Either admit that you have no idea what you are talking about or just quit.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Btw: you said: without any grounds. Meaning you consider cursing sahaba and calling them kaafir no grounds for takfeer. Which means you are one with the rawaafidh like disco super star Melvin Tariq Jameel. Raafidhi & deenbandi bhai bhai.

[Samandri]

lol, you do realize you are only embarrassing yourself by posting a Hadith that says nothing about the question posed.

Don't be such a coward. Either admit that you have no idea what you are talking about or just quit.

Religion is some game or competition for you?

The two hadith were reminders to you that you are taking takfir very lightly and casually, like Khawarij.

[Samandri]

Btw: you said: without any grounds. Meaning you consider cursing sahaba and calling them kaafir no grounds for takfeer. Which means you are one with the rawaafidh like disco super star Melvin Tariq Jameel. Raafidhi & deenbandi bhai bhai.

Its not my place to pass such judegment with poor grasp on religion, I leave it to the qualified scholars, i am not an Aalim nor a a student of Dars-i-nizami

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Religion is some game or competition for you?

The two hadith were reminders to you that you are taking takfir very lightly and casually, like Khawarij.

You are the one playing games by making claims you can't back up. When you fail, you through around ahadith to cover your shortcoming.

Speaking of khawaaridj, they were Shia who turned against Ali and made takfeer on him and other Sahaba.

So you are here defending a person who considers khawaaridj (Shia making takfeer on sahaba) as Muslims.

So you are here defending khawaaridj.


Think before you type. Because you are embarrassing yourself.

[Samandri]

“Every sin that a person commits makes him a disbeliever, since he is ignorant of Allah." Khawarij used to derive rules based on analogy, like this shamlawar and rest of wahabis are doing.

[Samandri]

Their iman does not go past their throats. This is narrated in a hadith from Ali (ra) by Bukhari. Due to deviation and separation from the path of haqq and jamaah their iman will only considered just a claim which would not reach to the heart. Their prayer does not go past their throats. This is narrated from Ali Ibn Talib (ra). (Muslim) They will speak the truth with their tongues, but it will not go past this from them. Ali bin Abi Talib (ra) said: “They will speak the truth with their tongues, but it will not go past this from them. And he pointed to his throat. They are from the most despised of Allah’s creation to Him. He said this when they told him: There is no rule except for that of Allah’s.” (Muslim)

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

“Every sin that a person commits makes him a disbeliever, since he is ignorant of Allah." Khawarij used to derive rules based on analogy, like this shamlawar and rest of wahabis are doing.

That's just diversion tactics. Fact: khawaarij made takfeer on Sahaba; fact, Shia make takfeer on sahaba; fact Tariq Jameel says there is no problem with that. Conlclusion: you are supporter of khawaarij.