Can you be Pashtun & be an Atheist?

[khushal]

Do believe Alexander was fighting some other people?

Alexander wrote a letter to his mother:

While in fight with pakhtuns in arachosia (now kandahar) and said, I am involved in the land of leonine (lion-like) and brave people, where every foot of the ground is like a well of steel, confronting my soldiers. You have brought only one son into the world but everyone in this land can be called an Alexander.

“May God keep you away from the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger, and the revenge of the Afghans.”
– Alexander the Great.


My family is from Logar.

Alexander never mentioned Pashtuns or Afghans in his letter to his mother but he was talking about what is today Afghanistan.
This is what he said:

I am involved in the land of a ‘Leonine’ (lion-like) and brave people, where every foot of the ground is like a wall of steel, confronting my soldier. You have brought only one Alexander into the world, but every mother in this land has brought an Alexander in the world.”

The revenge proverb was said by people in India where cobras and Tigers are a plenty. Rudyard Kipling was a fiction writer who wrote fantasy tales and attributed mythological tales to Afghans since Afghans were the first to defeat them. He wanted to sell books.

It is more likely that the people that Alexander was talking about spoke a different language where it is possible that it could have been an ancestral language of Pashto. Since we dont have any solid documented pre Islamic source that mentions Pashtuns or Afghans as a distinct ethnic group, it is more likely that the language is not as old as people like to believe.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I would say Pashtunwali is definitely influenced by the teachings of Islam but not necessarily abiding by Islam. Words like ghairat and namous have arabic philogical root....hence at least borrowing the semantics of Islam. I would believe at least outwardly belief in A deity is foundational to Pashtunwali since it suggests ethics and moral ideals on intangible reasons but under the surface you can use anthropology to describe Pashtun morality ...without invoking intangible concepts. Would that mean you have to ve Muslim to abide by Pashtunwali? At least paying lip service to it....yes but beyond that ...who knows.

[Damir9000]

I give up on the quotes. Seems you know more than I do.

But a people don't simply appear out of nowhere.

Are you saying that the arabs created pashtun people & culture?
Who were the people who met & fought the arabs before converting to Islam?

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I never met or heard of an afghan who actually practices pure Islam.
They mostly practice their own version of it.

I don't even know Arabs who practice pure Islam....so this is moot point.

Even your most puritanical Wahhabi relies on narratives not in line with the original application of Islam.

[Damir9000]

I don't even know Arabs who practice pure Islam....so this is moot point.

Even your most puritanical Wahhabi relies on narratives not in line with the original application of Islam.

If nobody practices pure Islam. Does that mean God failed for 124 000th time?
I mean all of his previous messages were corrupted.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I give up on the quotes. Seems you know more than I do.

But a people don't simply appear out of nowhere.

Are you saying that the arabs created pashtun people & culture?
Who were the people who met & fought the arabs before converting to Islam?

Who said Pashtuns came out of nowhere? Like all modern day ethnicities Pashtuns arose from preexisting ethnicities in the region. The debate here is when did that series of events occur ....before Islam or after. I'm willing to wager after because of the scant references to Pashtuns prior to Islam .....that are often somewhat dubious. But yet we find numerous clear cut references about Pashtuns few centuries after Islam. Before Islam we read about numerous ethnic groups inhabiting the areas now inhabited by Pashtuns .....coincidence ?

[Brown Skinned Savage]

If nobody practices pure Islam. Does that mean God failed for 124 000th time?
I mean all of his previous messages were corrupted.

I never said nobody does but most people dont. I don't know if God failed if God is giving humanity a test to show them that they gave them numerous chances but humanity still chose to stray . But that's if you accept that hypothesis

[Damir9000]

well, we can simply check Pashtun people's DNA.

Have any credible research been performed or has anybody here did a personal DNA test?

[Brown Skinned Savage]

well, we can simply check Pashtun people's DNA.

Have any credible research been performed or has anybody here did a personal DNA test?

Pashtun DNA seems to ve primarily R1a but this is shared by many central Asian ethic groups of today .....even groups that speak Turkic languages. So that would suggest there were preexisting ethnicities that were not Pashtuns themselves but contributed to the eventual genesis of Pashtuns.

[khushal]

Why do we have so many different dialects in Pashto. Jaji, Mangal, Zadran, Wazir all have different dialects and live right next to each other. Whats up with that. Did each tribe speak a different language and were pashtunized like those tribes in Nuristan who speak numerous different languages and are slowly being pashtunized.

[Damir9000]

Why do we have so many different dialects in Pashto. Jaji, Mangal, Zadran, Wazir all have different dialects and live right next to each other. Whats up with that. Did each tribe speak a different language and were pashtunized like those tribes in Nuristan who speak numerous different languages and are slowly being pashtunized.

My parents tell me it's because Afghans or Pashtuns were isolated from each other because they lived in valleys, blocked off by the mountains.
So everyone developed differently.

[Damir9000]

But let's go back to main point of this thread.

About how tied are pashtuns & their culture to Islam

Can it be separated?

I know the pashtun/afghan communists were atheists.
How did they differ from other pashtuns, besides following islamic tenants?

My parents are devout muslims. None of my family were involved with communism

[HalloIsBack]

why is that people who just take religion on a very light note or those who just don't want to associate themselves with religion consider themselves atheist?
is that what atheist is called? people having the attitude of don't care consider it literally fashionable to tag them with atheist. moran people
atheist are those who lost their soul plus religion. isn't Atheism a belief system too?

there was a great leftist pashtun scholar and giant literature figure Qalandar Mohmand who was a Qadyani. he is remembered with great zeal due to his struggle for leftist pashtun struggle and pashto literature. Qadyani are the most hated people in pakistani and are regularly prosecuted, now if a Qadyani can coexist in a conservative pashtun society an atheist can too.
PDPA, parchami and khalq were officialy atheist.

why do you always accosiate communism with atheism?

do you really believe that all of this lefts were atheists?
even naqebullah prayed
stalin was at theological academy
communism is a dictatorship and no other opinions and religions are allowed

atheism respect your point of view as long as you are peaceful and leave others alone

[HalloIsBack]

well, we can simply check Pashtun people's DNA.

Have any credible research been performed or has anybody here did a personal DNA test?

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=12706

[HalloIsBack]

"were pashtunized like those tribes in Nuristan"