There is no Islamism in Islam

[randolph85]

badlun would be a trojan horse of secularism among muslims like he wants to be if his disbelief wasn't so obvious

[Badlun]

badlun would be a trojan horse of secularism among muslims like he wants to be if his disbelief wasn't so obvious

Its my dream that for material progress secularism in Muslim society especially amongst Pashtuns is prevailed so that they also take care of this world instead of all the time talking of grave, paradise and religion.

However you used the wrong word of disbelief for me. What is belief in this sense? I have no problem with beliefs in metaphysical phenomena like God, , revelation,angels, Here After, paradise, hell etc. So you cannot blame me for disbelief. I believe in all beliefs of Islam.

My point is simple and based on justice. Every thing should have its own place. Science,Politics and Economics has nothing to do with religion and religion has nothing to do with them.

Religion should not manage our politics and economy while politics and economy should not manage mosque. Mullah for mosque while politician for politics, economist for economy. If you mix then it is Islamism, if you separate then it is Islam.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

If secularism takes care of material progress, how come most secular countries are poor?

[Khostai]

Soviet Union

Soviet Union allowed muslim to practice Islam, they just removed it from goverment and public, the same with christianity, other wise there would be no christians or muslims left in former USSR state.
Not like Islamists who behave the nonbelivers and force them to convert to Islam.




Well they want it now

Nope they want to remove Assad, that is the primary goal of Syrians, the only that want a sharia is Al Qaida members and some brainwashed wahabists.


There was a popular vote in of the Ikhwan Al Muslimeen, people stressed more Shari'ah in Government.


51,7% to Morsi and 48.3% to a secularust Shafik is not that big of wining.

[Khostai]

If secularism takes care of material progress, how come most secular countries are poor?

Becuase they are not truly secularised, the true secular countries are progressive rich and people have a much better live.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Soviet Union

Soviet Union allowed muslim to practice Islam, they just removed it from goverment and public, the same with christianity, other wise there would be no christians or muslims left in former USSR state.

Read about Crimean Tatars and mass repatriations of Russians to Muslim regions and deportation of Muslims to the Gulags. The reason Islam stood strong is because persecuting people for their religion binds them to their religion stronger.

Nope they want to remove Assad, that is the primary goal of Syrians, the only that want a sharia is Al Qaida members and some brainwashed wahabists.

And now they want Shari'ah , AlQaeda stepped into the game much later. Most of the FSA are pro Shari'ah.

.

51,7% to Morsi and 48.3% to a secularust Shafik is not that big of wining.

Popular is popular.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Becuase they are not truly secularised, the true secular countries are progressive rich and people have a much better live.

Well by definition secular is anything that separates Church and State, so by definition they are Truly Secular

[Khostai]

Read about Crimean Tatars and mass repatriations of Russians to Muslim regions and deportation of Muslims to the Gulags. The reason Islam stood strong is because persecuting people for their religion binds them to their religion stronger.


Yes but there deportation was because they were against the goverment, and not becuase they were muslimsor christian, they still would be deported even if they were ateist. I know Russians who are christian and say that during Sovjet times, religion was just not mentioned on tv and public, but people still practised it at home and goverment knew about it, but did nothing as long as it didn't opposed there rule. Please stop spreading lies, your Islamist are the only ones who will behead even there own mother if they see her not practising Islam.


And now they want Shari'ah , AlQaeda stepped into the game much later. Most of the FSA are pro Shari'ah.

.


Nope, shariah will not come to Syria, just like in Egypt your sharia dream will come to and end soon.



Popular is popular.

2 procent more vote is not enough to change the whole country in to your sharia hell hole.

[Khostai]

Well by definition secular is anything that separates Church and State, so by definition they are Truly Secular

Wel by that defenition SA is also a true Islamic state, becuase they have implemented Sharia and oppose secularisation.
And you need to know what secularism truly is. Like implementing shariah will end poverty, it will just breed more poverty and instability.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Wel by that defenition SA is also a true Islamic state, becuase they have implemented Sharia and oppose secularisation.
And you need to know what secularism truly is. Like implementing shariah will end poverty, it will just breed more poverty and instability.

It's not because Islamic State has to be ruled by a Khalifa or Amir, neither of these is SA. KSA is ruled by a Malik, that's why it is KINGDOM of Saudia Arabia, not Dawlat Al Islamiyah Al 'Arabia

The assumptions for secularism doesn't apply for Islam because Islam is more specific than secularism in how it defines itself.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

2 procent more vote is not enough to change the whole country in to your sharia hell hole.

It is when most of the country abides by the religion which that Shari'ah is ordered by. Yes and they were against the Government because the Government was repressing Islam and invading Muslim territories. So you demonstrated the opposiing case. Just because they also did it to Christians is irrelevant. They were attacked for wanting to live their way of life as Muslims according to the way their religion prescribed. Furthermore if you remember your question; you asked where did secularists militantly enforce their ideology. Well if you admit they did it to Chrisrtians, Muslims and other religions, You just disproved yourself even more. Good work.

Nope, shariah will not come to Syria, just like in Egypt your sharia dream will come to and end soon.

Ok buddy, keep pretending, the fact is Secularism is an Imperialist construct and everyone but you realizes this. There'd be no reason why Syrian Arabs would want to abide by a way of life that contradicts their own. This bold fact escapes you.

[Khostai]

It is when most of the country abides by the religion which that Shari'ah is ordered by. Yes and they were against the Government because the Government was repressing Islam and invading Muslim territories. So you demonstrated the opposiing case. Just because they also did it to Christians is irrelevant. They were attacked for wanting to live their way of life as Muslims according to the way their religion prescribed. Furthermore if you remember your question; you asked where did secularists militantly enforce their ideology. Well if you admit they did it to Chrisrtians, Muslims and other religions, You just disproved yourself even more. Good work.



Ok buddy, keep pretending, the fact is Secularism is an Imperialist construct and everyone but you realizes this. There'd be no reason why Syrian Arabs would want to abide by a way of life that contradicts their own. This bold fact escapes you.

NO you proved nothing, Islamist are still the the violent bunch who need to be removed from public and goverment, Egypt did the right thing, the rest will follow soon.
No sharia will come in Syria. Secularisation is the path of the middel and it will be enforced in all muslim countries.

[Manzareh]

Do you have any example of a proper Muslim government in the past 1400 years. Even the first 4 caliphs had various issues like differences between people from Madina and Makkah, differences between Ali and others, battles of Ali and Ayesha, battles of Ali and Muawaya, murders of all the 3 caliphs etc.

If we do not have a proper Muslim government in so many centuries then it means it is not a reality to base government on Islam.

So what are you implying, that a government that has issues cannot be regarded as a government? every government has 'various issues' as you put it.. so then its safe to say there has been no 'proper' government in the history of mankind

Why things go out of hand because Islam is a religion not a political system like communism, socialism, democracy, monarchy, dictatorship, aristocracy, plutocracy etc.

but in communism, socialism, democracy, monarchy, dictatorship, aristocracy, plutocracy etc things also go out of hand. Your point is very vague.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

NO you proved nothing, Islamist are still the the violent bunch who need to be removed from public and goverment, Egypt did the right thing, the rest will follow soon.
No sharia will come in Syria. Secularisation is the path of the middel and it will be enforced in all muslim countries.

Turkey isn't even ruled by secularists anymore, they were the most "enforced" Secular country just 20 years ago. That's all gone now pretty much. Egypt didn't do anything, it's western backed puppets that did it. That's the only way people won't want Shari'ah is if foreign imperialists intervene to prevent it. So who's going to enforce secularism? Foreigners, but their power is waning. Secularism isn't the Middle Path, it's the opposing path.

[Manzareh]

In this thread I would like discuss the difference between Islam and Islamism. My main proposition is that Islamism does not exist in Islam. Islam is the name of religion while Islamism is a political and non religious concept.

Islamism does not have a concept, its a made up word used by the media, every Islamopheobe has their own definition of Islamism.

Islam being a religion is mainly concerned with faith and morality related matters like any other religion of the world while Islamism is involving Islam with politics, economy, culture, as a way of life and extending Islam to non religious aspects of life. Islamism we find in the form of Taliban and Al Qaeda who are the worst enemies of Islam itself. Sufism is the form where we find Islam as a religion.

You regurgitate these exact sentences over and over again for the past few years now, every time you are given an answer you appear the next day and say the exact same thing, your words are like a broken record playing over and over again. Islam is not only a religion it is A WAY OF LIFE, comprehende? i repeat ISLAM IS A WAY OF LIFE, understand? one more time, ISLAM IS A WAY OF LIFE..ok one more time incase you missed it: ISLAM IS A WAY OF LIFE - now then, what is a way of life?? a way of life for people includes politics (otherwise there would be no such thing as Sharia law), economics and so fourth. Muslims are not monks to detach away from the world completely. We make supplications to the lord to be successful in the dunya and also in deen. This is very simple to understand.

Is politics, economy, culture, education etc the fundamentals of Islam?
No,

Yes. Sharia is politics. There are Islamic laws in regards economy such as interest, business management, trading etc. Education is a BIG thing in Islam, Muslims did not set the stepping stones for modern advancements without education, there is a lack of education in Muslims country's at the moment hence all the backwardness. In short, these things are fundamentals of Islam BUT not the ONLY fundamentals.

then what are the fundamentals of Islam?
The famous five pillars: Monotheism, prayers, charity, fasting and pilgrimage.

These are the five pillars, monotheism is a broad subject, its not just believing in one god and that is it. no, its about believing in the lords revelations, adhering to his commandments etc which covers so much more than five simple words, that you base your life around. If you as an individual challenge the teachings of Allah and you make your own religion then you are not abiding by the pillar of Islam monotheism because you are your own god.

If I believe in these five pillars then am I a complete Muslim? Yes.

Nope, it is not as simple as that, sorry. This might make you a Muslim, yes..but will it safeguard you from hellfire?. A complete Muslim submits himself to the will of Allah, follows the teachings of his Prophet which is a broad subject.

Only Islamic morality is required in politics, economy etc but politics, wars, economic affairs, cultural matters etc are not part of the religion of Islam but parts of Islamism.

Wrong again, ofcourse they are part of Islam.