Why Nationalism leads to apostasy

[Khilji]

It means Ibne Khaldun was a goof!

Religion is for person, family, beliefs etc not binding force like an ethnicity or nation. Nation is something concrete not like the fluid religion with so many sects, schools, hatred, wars and no material benefit.

I have heard that Prophet Muhamamd used to say that I am Qureshi, I am Qureshi, I am Qureshi and I am proud of it. Quran also recognizes tribes and lineage/sub tribes/branches(shouoob) for identity. Identity is a pride, a difference. If you call a man dog, you do not touch him but you change his identity.

this half yemenit and turkish lover will not answer you

[HalloIsBack]

I speak some arabic yes, & i have been told i pronounce Arabic perfectly by teachers etc since i've been learning it for a number of years now, also Pashto is hard language so its easy for a Pashtun to learn the correct pronouncing of Arabic. You however have a baseless assumption of the man because you can neither speak OR pronounce Arabic, therefore your criticism of him is meaningless since you have no qualification in judging his language skills. understand? how can you pass a judgment of the mans language when you don't speak it yourself.


why you did not mention before that you speak arabic but now?
as i said non-salafi muslims say that his pronounciation is not right.

Also, some scholars are not born Arabs so sometimes they can never get the pronunciation right, this doesn't make their Islamic knowledge any less valuable. Its common sense.

they cannot maybe speak arabic fleuently but they should have the right pronunciation. how he can teach islam and arabic language if his pronunciation is wrong?

He might lie to Muslims, but then there's people like you that also lie to muslims and spread false accusations from the top of head without even thinking.

so you don't care that he lie to muslims? when did i lie to muslims and spread false accusations?

again speaking a language fluently and pronunciation are totally two different things!

[RevolutionThroughReason]

It means Ibne Khaldun was a goof!

Religion is for person, family, beliefs etc not binding force like an ethnicity or nation. Nation is something concrete not like the fluid religion with so many sects, schools, hatred, wars and no material benefit.

I have heard that Prophet Muhamamd used to say that I am Qureshi, I am Qureshi, I am Qureshi and I am proud of it. Quran also recognizes tribes and lineage/sub tribes/branches(shouoob) for identity. Identity is a pride, a difference. If you call a man dog, you do not touch him but you change his identity.

Ibn Khaldun is a god? I don't know what you mean by that.

But religion is NOT for just "person , family beliefs" because we know from historical evidence that religion was used in social governance and legislation. So your claim is incorrect from an evidential standpoint.

Your statement is just HOW YOU IDEALIZE religion to be; How religion actually is differs from how you want religion to be. YOU WANT religion to be personal; but in the real world Religion has proven itself to be Social and Political. So hence we see concept of Ummah, and we as Muslims are obligated to enforce the concept of Ummah on people who claim they are Muslims and enforce abandoning Nationalism, and reprimanding those who promote nationalism with severe punishment like imprisonment or banishing them from society because they become socially disruptive.

The Hadith you're referring to is this one.

"When Allah created me He made me the best choice of His creation, and when He created tribes He made me come from the best of tribes, and when He created souls He made me come from the best of souls, and when He created clans He made me come from the best of them." Al-Tirmidhi"

The Hadih never says Nabi(saw) takes "pride" no use of the word pride is there.

Also Nabi(saw) said

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves."

So when he says "best" it does not mean the same thing as you think it means, He means, he means the best tribe as in the Prophets, and the best Souls meaning the Souls of Prophets. because these people were righteous.

We know this because he says


“

The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds.” (Tirmidhi, Sahih)

So a deeper investigation shows that you're incorrect and actually misunderstood what Nabi(saw) was talking about.

[asad71]

Nationalism is frowned upon Islam. The Islamic brotherhood rejects political borders.In modern times practical necessity encompasses us into national boundaries. But the universal spirit of brotherhood in Islam ought to transcend across all borders.

[Badlun]

Last night I attended Palestine national day in a five star hotel. I was surprised that Palestine was presented a pure national cause of Palestine Arabs , not at all a Muslim Umma issue. The chief guest who was the secretary of Al Fatah clearly said that our cause is a national cause and not an Islamist cause. He condemned Islamism in clear terms.

They just want an independent Palestine state nothing else. Israel was mentioned like a recognized state but an enemy and occupying state. In the whole ceremony there was no recitation of Qur'an. There was no reference to Jihad or any Islamic terminology. Now I am sure Palestine will get its independence as now they are talking in clear nationalistic terms.

Nationalism is the only reality in this modern age. No one will abandon its national interest for the sake of this vogue Umma concept.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This is actually what's wrong with the Palestinian issue; they ignore the Ummah. And that's why they failed to gain liberation because Palestinian Movement was controlled by Arab Secularists and Nationalists. Arab Secularists and Nationalists are one of the biggest roadblocks to Islamic revival and so we must oppose them.

It is the duty of Islam to suppress any type of Nationalism whether for Arabs or for Pashtuns or for Persians or for Turks.

[Khostai]

This is actually what's wrong with the Palestinian issue; they ignore the Ummah. And that's why they failed to gain liberation because Palestinian Movement was controlled by Arab Secularists and Nationalists. Arab Secularists and Nationalists are one of the biggest roadblocks to Islamic revival and so we must oppose them.

It is the duty of Islam to suppress any type of Nationalism whether for Arabs or for Pashtuns or for Persians or for Turks.

Liar, it is you Islamist Hamas that sabotage everything and gave the name to Palestine people as terrorists, it the secularists and nationalist that bring the effort to make a Palistine a state.
Its also thanks to nationalists and secularists that Palistine is a step closer to be recognized as a state by UN.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Fatah and Secular Arab Movements have been the ones dominating the Palestinian Movement for Over 60 years, how is it possible that Islamic Movements gave the "name" of terrorisnm; when the secular and Arab Nationalist movements in Palestine have been the ones in control .

It's the same in Afghanistan, the Secular Nationalist Afghans, collaborated with the Russians, they were the stooges of foreign occupiers likewise FATAh and Arab Nationalists were collaborators of Zionists and Imperialists. The history speaks for itself.

[randolph85]

compare the territorial integrity of gaza ruled by muslims vs that of the west bank ruled by secularists invested in negotiations with jews for 20 years now.

gaza is kike-free, while every week it seems there are new settlement blocks announced by the jews while these so called nationalists twiddle their fat thumbs and mind you, this during negotiations. this is how low the jews think about the secular nationalist position in that they can announce the creation of thousands of new settlement blocks knowing that the likes of fatah will do nothing about it except curse under their breath.

[zamurd]

Bismillah

As Salaamu 3alaykum,

As you know, one of the core tenets of the Nationalist faith is to be proud of who you are. Being proud of your race, ethnicity, nationality or tribe will make you blind and reject the truth.

This is why all Nationalist at some point in life abandon Islam altogether and become apostates. Even the ones who still claim to be Muslims, are in most cases apostates.

To give you a visual representation of this, just consider a specific ruling within Islam that is against the beliefs and the interests of nationalists. Let us take music as an example. Music, playing musical instruments, that is, is prohibited in Islam. Yet, nationalism cannot survive without dancing and promiscuity. The famous harlot of the communist regime, Naghma is a goddess of the nationalists. If you give nationalists the reasons and proofs of the prohibition of music, they simply reject it. They reject it, because it conflicts with their beliefs and ideas. Since their belief system is against Islam, they cannot submit themselves to any of it.

Just pay attention to the threads about music in this forum. We have nationalists here claiming to be Hanafis. When they were exposed to Hanafi ruling on music, they rejected it all together. Even though the Hanafi ruling is based on Quran, Sunnah, Ijmaa and centuries of scholarship, they still reject it.

Thats why, I say, we don't need to fool ourselves. Let us be honest. Nationalists are all kaafirs. Even if an individual person who ascribes himself to nationalism is not an apostate yet, sooner or later he will leave Islam eventually.

Yes i totally agree to you.

[waterbear_waterbear]

Soldat Amir is an example of an apostate through nationalism....

then he becomes a cultural christian....

He's atheist actually but is culturally russian orthodox christian as he sais it is good cultural values for Pashtuns....