Why Nationalism leads to apostasy

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Bismillah

As Salaamu 3alaykum,

As you know, one of the core tenets of the Nationalist faith is to be proud of who you are. Being proud of your race, ethnicity, nationality or tribe will make you blind and reject the truth.

This is why all Nationalist at some point in life abandon Islam altogether and become apostates. Even the ones who still claim to be Muslims, are in most cases apostates.

To give you a visual representation of this, just consider a specific ruling within Islam that is against the beliefs and the interests of nationalists. Let us take music as an example. Music, playing musical instruments, that is, is prohibited in Islam. Yet, nationalism cannot survive without dancing and promiscuity. The famous harlot of the communist regime, Naghma is a goddess of the nationalists. If you give nationalists the reasons and proofs of the prohibition of music, they simply reject it. They reject it, because it conflicts with their beliefs and ideas. Since their belief system is against Islam, they cannot submit themselves to any of it.

Just pay attention to the threads about music in this forum. We have nationalists here claiming to be Hanafis. When they were exposed to Hanafi ruling on music, they rejected it all together. Even though the Hanafi ruling is based on Quran, Sunnah, Ijmaa and centuries of scholarship, they still reject it.

Thats why, I say, we don't need to fool ourselves. Let us be honest. Nationalists are all kaafirs. Even if an individual person who ascribes himself to nationalism is not an apostate yet, sooner or later he will leave Islam eventually.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

To understand what is stated above better, consider this, Ahlus Sunnah have a principle: rejecting any part of Islam is rejecting the entire religion. So if a person says, I believe in Islam but I dont believe in prohibition of music. When the proofs from Quran and Sunnah and presented to such a person and this person still rejects it, it means nothing else but apostasy.

If you like to learn more about this topic, I can provide references from the books of scholars of the old and scholars of present.

[Pakwatan]

W.Salaam Shamlawar.



Nice to see you after your break from the forum.


I really thought you got picked up by spooks and sent to Gitmo or some sort of concentration camp.


Please keep posting. I like reading what you write.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

W.Salaam Shamlawar.



Nice to see you after your break from the forum.


I really thought you got picked up by spooks and sent to Gitmo or some sort of concentration camp.


Please keep posting. I like reading what you write.

I was temporarily banned. Apparently people don't appreciate my presence here.

No, I don't think I will get arrested anytime soon. I haven't said anything or did anything worse than most average Muslims I know.

They can't put us all in jail. There aren't enough prisons.

[Pakwatan]

Bismillah

As Salaamu 3alaykum,

As you know, one of the core tenets of the Nationalist faith is to be proud of who you are. Being proud of your race, ethnicity, nationality or tribe will make you blind and reject the truth.

This is why all Nationalist at some point in life abandon Islam altogether and become apostates. Even the ones who still claim to be Muslims, are in most cases apostates.

To give you a visual representation of this, just consider a specific ruling within Islam that is against the beliefs and the interests of nationalists. Let us take music as an example. Music, playing musical instruments, that is, is prohibited in Islam. Yet, nationalism cannot survive without dancing and promiscuity. The famous harlot of the communist regime, Naghma is a goddess of the nationalists. If you give nationalists the reasons and proofs of the prohibition of music, they simply reject it. They reject it, because it conflicts with their beliefs and ideas. Since their belief system is against Islam, they cannot submit themselves to any of it.

Just pay attention to the threads about music in this forum. We have nationalists here claiming to be Hanafis. When they were exposed to Hanafi ruling on music, they rejected it all together. Even though the Hanafi ruling is based on Quran, Sunnah, Ijmaa and centuries of scholarship, they still reject it.

Thats why, I say, we don't need to fool ourselves. Let us be honest. Nationalists are all kaafirs. Even if an individual person who ascribes himself to nationalism is not an apostate yet, sooner or later he will leave Islam eventually.

While I disagree with some of your points, the point you are trying to make is correct.

I don't think having pride is a bad thing at all, but If abused like alcohol or drugs, it becomes an addiction. Addiction makes people become unreasonable.



Ultimately, nationalism leads to secularism, or in certain cases, atheism/communism based on shirk in the eastern hemisphere.

Secularism is just a tactic for globalists to push their agenda on the masses of the world, while they connive on subduing the entire planet.

Globalists are Godless. They thrive on power and greed, while feeding the every day man(dumba/sheep) secularism to keep him ignorant.

Secularism is a tool for globalists to be politically correct and ostracize anyone that would oppose them.

They paint secularism in positive light, while demonizing Muslims for being the biggest threat to their scheme.

Where in Islam does it say to oppress non-believers?

Yet secularism is pure and noble, and Islam is the evil in the world.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

While I disagree with some of your points, the point you are trying to make is correct.

I don't think having pride is a bad thing at all, but If abused like alcohol or drugs, it becomes an addiction. Addiction makes people become unreasonable.



Ultimately, nationalism leads to secularism, or in certain cases, atheism/communism based on shirk in the eastern hemisphere.

Secularism is just a tactic for globalists to push their agenda on the masses of the world, while they connive on subduing the entire planet.

Globalists are Godless. They thrive on power and greed, while feeding the every day man(dumba/sheep) secularism to keep him ignorant.

Secularism is a tool for globalists to be politically correct and ostracize anyone that would oppose them.

They paint secularism in positive light, while demonizing Muslims for being the biggest threat to their scheme.

Where in Islam does it say to oppress non-believers?

Yet secularism is pure and noble, and Islam is the evil in the world.

Why do you support the secular nationalist(punjab-centric) state of Pakistan?

[Pakwatan]

Why do you support the secular nationalist(punjab-centric) state of Pakistan?

I don't support the nationalist/secular aspects, but I support Pakistan.

You see, Pakistan is my home. It has my land, my family, and my people. I cannot piss in the well that I drink from.

My land is great, but not greater than any other land. I am a Muslim and even this Earth is just temporary.

Secularism in Pakistan is making my countrymen ill. The grandchildren of Hafiz of Quran Shareef are now wearing skinny jeans, mocking Islam, and putting their hands together and praying to actors from Bollywood.

It starts from lowering volume of a song that a bollywood actress is naked in during azaan, to skipping a few prayers, to skipping all prayers and finding solace in praying Jumaa namaaz and telling themself "Hey, If I skip one, I am still a Muslim".

The rot spreads to every inch of the body.


The westerners bomb us, but when they mentally rape our people, then not even a shred of our dignity is left.

This is what slavery or ghulami is. It is a state of mind.

[abassinafghan]

Shamlawar Khurasani lives in a dreamworld , he wants to be muslim muslim , but dance for saudi sheikh , because saudi sheikh managed to make him belive that saudi interest = islam

[Badlun]

W.Salaam Shamlawar.



Nice to see you after your break from the forum.


Please keep posting. I like reading what you write.

I also miss Shamlawar because I am learning more and more about the idealism of Islamists from his posts. Today I learnt that if you reject one part then you reject the whole of Islam. This is a very dangerous statement because if it is true then except Taliban there is not a single Muslim on this planet.

Taliban practically reject nationalism and secularism. These about 100,000 Taliban are then the only Muslims.

If secularism and nationalism is kufr then except Pakistan which came into being on the name of Islam all other Muslim countries are infidels and apostates. All other Muslim countries including Saudi and Afghanistan are nation states.

[randolph85]

I also miss Shamlawar because I am learning more and more about the idealism of Islamists from his posts. Today I learnt that if you reject one part then you reject the whole of Islam. This is a very dangerous statement because if it is true then except Taliban there is not a single Muslim on this planet.

Taliban practically reject nationalism and secularism. These about 100,000 Taliban are then the only Muslims.

If secularism and nationalism is kufr then except Pakistan which came into being on the name of Islam all other Muslim countries are infidels and apostates. All other Muslim countries including Saudi and Afghanistan are nation states.

you can learn more about your own religion if you read the quran. instead you are online justifying adultery, haram food, foreign occupation, criticizing punishments authorized by god, and just kaffiring all around town. you don't just reject one part of islam, you reject pretty much all of it. calling another muslim a kafir is a dangerous thing but it is clear from your post history that you conceal the truth and fit the classic definition of the word so i have no problem calling you one.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

you can learn more about your own religion if you read the quran. instead you are online justifying adultery, haram food, foreign occupation, criticizing punishments authorized by god, and just kaffiring all around town. you don't just reject one part of islam, you reject pretty much all of it. calling another muslim a kafir is a dangerous thing but it is clear from your post history that you conceal the truth and fit the classic definition of the word so i have no problem calling you one.

Badrun stated that he studied all books of Hanafi law, Arabic grammar and some more books. Yet he needs me to tell him what the Sunni stance is towards those who reject parts of religion.

[Badlun]

I have read many books of Fiq hanafi as a formal talib in a madrassah. I have also read few books of hadith as Mishkat and Muatta Imam Malik in Arabic. I know the Quran in Arabic.

What I have found in all these books especially in hadith that the definition of Muslim is the one who says sahahada and have beliefs mentioned in the famous amantu Billah(God, Angels, books, prophets,Day of judgement and origin of good and bad things from Allah).

Along with this the practice of the prayers, fasting, charity and pilgrimage. Also moral injunctions like not killing, not telling lies etc. Here Islam comes to an end.

Rest is Arab politics, economy, culture, society, art, science, philosophy etc which has nothing to do with Islam. If I do not believe in prayers, for example or oneness of God , then I am a Kaffir but if I do not believe in the culture of Arabs like not listening to music or not dancing then it has nothing to do with Islam.

[Khorosani]

I have read many books of Fiq hanafi as a formal talib in a madrassah. I have also read few books of hadith as Mishkat and Muatta Imam Malik in Arabic. I know the Quran in Arabic.

What I have found in all these books especially in hadith that the definition of Muslim is the one who says sahahada and have beliefs mentioned in the famous amantu Billah(God, Angels, books, prophets,Day of judgement and origin of good and bad things from Allah).

Along with this the practice of the prayers, fasting, charity and pilgrimage. Also moral injunctions like not killing, not telling lies etc. Here Islam comes to an end.

Rest is Arab politics, economy, culture, society, art, science, philosophy etc which has nothing to do with Islam. If I do not believe in prayers, for example or oneness of God , then I am a Kaffir but if I do not believe in the culture of Arabs like not listening to music or not dancing then it has nothing to do with Islam.

Okay Shiekh, can you tell me the meaning of what hal means in grammar? how about a faa'il and mafool? Can you tell me what nasb jar and raf' mean in arabic grammar?

In addition, can you give me the title of the most widely read hanafi text?

[Badlun]

Okay Shiekh, can you tell me the meaning of what hal means in grammar? how about a faa'il and mafool? Can you tell me what nasb jar and raf' mean in arabic grammar?

In addition, can you give me the title of the most widely read hanafi text?

Many years back I had read mizan u sarf, some books on nahwa and what I remember about your questions about Arabic grammar, will share here. I like this kind of intellectual discussion. However if you are interested we can continue the discussion in a thread already exists here on Arablic language.

Raf', Nasb, Jarr and Jazm are Irab(inflection) and shows how a word ends. raf is when the word ends after a verb as its subject, if direct object it will be nasb, after preposition it will be jarr. The vowel signs used are a dammah for Raf', a fathah for Nasb and a kasrah for Jarr.

A verb's ending also depends on use of words like lan and lam. After lan there will be Nasb(fathah) . If the verb is after lam, then Jazm(sukun). If the verb is not with lam or lan then it is called Raf(dammah)

Hal is a question word. Faail is subject , mafool is object.

The most read book in hanafi Fiqa can be Nur ul Ida or kanz or Hidaya or Qudori or Mukhtar depends on the grade of the students. For me Hidayah is very famous. I have read all of them formally.

Please do not doubt my claim that I have remained as a formal Talib in a madrassah. Now I might have lost grip on all those texts but I did study them.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Badlun can you have a conversation in Arabic?