Where Do We Come From?

[Roshina]

Dearest sister,

One does not have the inclusion of a creator--it is based on chance. The other is based on intricate guidance at every stage by a Creator.

Before I say anything further, I need to ask if "based on chance" means "random."

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Before I say anything further, I need to ask if "based on chance" means "random."

If god does not exist, then it means chance. That is why it is called "natural selection."

[Roshina]

If god does not exist, then it means chance. That is why it is called "natural selection."

No, no, I understand that. But I'm seeking a definition of "chance" here. Is it synonymous with "random," as in ... that natural selection happens randomly?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

In essence, it is chance.

[Mujib]

Allah alone is Master of Existence. He alone causes all that is to be and not to be. Causes are without effect in themselves, but rather both cause and effect are created by Him. The causes and the effects of all processes, including those through which plant and animal species are individuated, are His work alone. To ascribe efficacy to anything but His action, whether believing that causes (a) bring about effects in and of themselves; or (b) bring about effects in and of themselves through a capacity Allah has placed in them, is to ascribe associates to Allah (shirk). Such beliefs seem to be entailed in the literal understanding of "natural selection" and "random mutation," and other evolutionary concepts, unless we understand these processes as figurative causes, while realizing that Allah alone is the agent. This is apart from the consideration of whether they are true or not.

As for claim that man has evolved from a non-human species, this is unbelief (kufr) no matter if we ascribe the process to Allah or to "nature," because it negates the truth of Adam's special creation that Allah has revealed in the Qur'an. Man is of special origin, attested to not only by revelation, but also by the divine secret within him, the capacity for ma'rifa or knowledge of the Divine that he alone of all things possesses. By his God-given nature, man stands before a door opening onto infinitude that no other creature in the universe can aspire to. Man is something else.

Full article: Evolution and Islam

[PFgulalai]

So if Allah is the sole Creator, what is the Jew/Christian God doing? How about those thousands of god/godess of Greek/Hindu mythology or those thousands of supernatural beings?
How all these Gods harmonize with one another? How they distribute all resources? Why the Jews/Christian God is more powerful considering the development of Western nations?

I would like to know your 'logic' here...

What is considered a "plausible" theory?

The universe to science is like an old book. The first and last pages are lost. So there is nothing plausible at a state of ignorance. When the answer is right in front of you and you deny it. The Quran has already answered this question.

Science is just part of knowledge. And not knowledge itself.

Anyways i am not getting into this silly evolution talk. My first post is enough to prove everything other than a creator as illogical.

One of the attributes of Allah is "the eternal." By definition eternal is forever with no beginning. Therefore the question is absurd.

Only non-eternal beings are created.

By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something eternal which gave life to this universe and everything. This eternal is everlasting and intelligent known as Allah.

[PFgulalai]

The term "Natural Selection" means the mechanism by which heritable/genetic traits are transfered from one generation to successive generations. Natural selection is one of the two processes of biological evolution.The other is called Genetic Drift.
I wonder from where god came into natural selection?

If god does not exist, then it means chance. That is why it is called "natural selection."

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^I missed your point here.

[Baidariwal]

[PFgulalai]

The taxonomic family of 'Hominidae' (great apes) include humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, and Orungutans.The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of this family lived approx. 14 million years ago who is now supposedly from Africa.
At the DNA level, we share 97-99% homology with important mutations in genes which have helped us to evolve as 'highly developed apes' by developing a complex brain.
About 5 million years ago, progressive speciation resulted in the separation of humans from their commn ancestor with Chimp. (Scientists believe Chimps evolved separately than humans but humans are the last to evolve). There were several human species and many were lost as shown by the fossil record e.g. Homo sapiens from Africa (the present form), Homo erectus from Asia, Homo Neanderthalensis from Europe. Today all biological, anthropological, primatologic, palentologic, and genetic data, especially the mitochondrial one, have provided the evidence that our MCRA (Homo sapiens from Africa--that is once they evolved, they migrated out of Africa and became the dominant form by replacing the rest of the Homo's populations.

So Humans did not evolve from other apes.Instead all great apes evolved from one common ancestor.

There is nothing to be so much proud about being human.Because at the genetic levels, both humans and bacteria have the same set of metabolic pathways to degrade the sugar that we all eat; to reproduce; to perform movement; to exchange gases.

Evolution is not a random process. The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all. The survival and reproductive success of an individual is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Whether or not an individual survives and reproduces depends on whether it has genes that produce traits that are well adapted to its environment.

One of the biggest and most frustrating misconceptions about evolution is that humans evolved or came from apes/monkeys.This is so untrue it couldn't be more true!

You see, evolution doesn't say that, and Darwin never, ever made such a silly claim either. What evolution says, though, is that apes and humans share the same (or common) ancestor. This is not the same claim as "humans came from monkeys." Good God, we just have the same ancestor. In simplest words: We are the siblings (or maybe cousins) of apes, but we're NOT the children of apes (i.e., evolving from them)

[Roshina]

^ Thank you so much for that information, Gulalai Jaaney!

[Roshina]

So if Allah is the sole Creator, what is the Jew/Christian God doing? How about those thousands of god/godess of Greek/Hindu mythology or those thousands of supernatural beings?
How all these Gods harmonize with one another? How they distribute all resources? Why the Jews/Christian God is more powerful considering the development of Western nations?

LOL. Lewanai!

Here's what Muslims say:

There's only ONE God, and there's no such thing as the Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Christian, etc. God. ONE God only. The only reason some Muslims prefer to call God "Allah" instead of "God" is because they don't know that "Allah" is just the Arabic word for the English term "God."

Orrrrr it may be because they wanna remind the world that the English term "God" refers to trinity, which Muslims don't accept. In that case, they forget that the Quran constantly reminds them that God is one and is the same for ALL people. So it shouldn't matter what language they refer to Him in.

Another reason could be that . . . well, it's Arabic, and the Prophet spoke Arabic, so we should speak it as well to feel closer to him. (No, seriously, I have friends who say this.)

It's also possible that they're hoping to get extra blessing (sawabuna) by saying "God" in Arabic ("Allah") because according to some, every Arabic letter you utter = ten blessings/good deeds / sawabuna. So, you have:

Alif
Laam
Laam
Ha

That's 40 sawabuna/blessings/etc. right there. All free.

So, yeah, bottom line: The Muslim argument is that all the Hindus, Christians, Jews, etc. are wrong because there's no such thing as God distributing His power. The God the Muslims believe in is Omniscient, Omnipotent, All-hearing, All-knowing, All-EVERYTHING. Only Muslims are correct, and only their understanding of religion, God, and everything related to religion is correct. (I'm not exaggerating:This is EXACTLY What Zakir Naik says too, over and over and over again.)

[PFgulalai]

ROFL@ Lewanai..
Thanks for the useful insight!
If that is to be believed, why do we hate other non-muslims and call them 'kafir' and doubt their faith? Why we practice discrimination then...because in essence we all would be worshipping the SAME Omnipotent God?

LOL. Lewanai!

Here's what Muslims say:

There's only ONE God, and there's no such thing as the Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Christian, etc. God. ONE God only. The only reason some Muslims prefer to call God "Allah" instead of "God" is because they don't know that "Allah" is just the Arabic word for the English term "God."

Orrrrr it may be because they wanna remind the world that the English term "God" refers to trinity, which Muslims don't accept. In that case, they forget that the Quran constantly reminds them that God is one and is the same for ALL people. So it shouldn't matter what language they refer to Him in.

Another reason could be that . . . well, it's Arabic, and the Prophet spoke Arabic, so we should speak it as well to feel closer to him. (No, seriously, I have friends who say this.)

It's also possible that they're hoping to get extra blessing (sawabuna) by saying "God" in Arabic ("Allah") because according to some, every Arabic letter you utter = ten blessings/good deeds / sawabuna. So, you have:

Alif
Laam
Laam
Ha

That's 40 sawabuna/blessings/etc. right there. All free.

So, yeah, bottom line: The Muslim argument is that all the Hindus, Christians, Jews, etc. are wrong because there's no such thing as God distributing His power. The God the Muslims believe in is Omniscient, Omnipotent, All-hearing, All-knowing, All-EVERYTHING. Only Muslims are correct, and only their understanding of religion, God, and everything related to religion is correct. (I'm not exaggerating:This is EXACTLY What Zakir Naik says too, over and over and over again.)

[Roshina]

ROFL@ Lewanai..
Thanks for the useful insight!
If that is to be believed, why do we hate other non-muslims and call them 'kafir' and doubt their faith? Why we practice discrimination then...because in essence we all would be worshipping the SAME Omnipotent God?

LOL :P I thought I answered this! Again:

You know, even Muslim scholars -- both from past and the present -- can't agree on what constitutes kufr! I mean, some classical arguments make it clear that someone who doesn't pray 5 times a day is a kafir :| No, seriously.

So, if we can call even MUSLIMS (who just don't do what we think they should be doing) kafir, then to call a non-Muslim kafir is nothing.

Even Hindus believe in one main God who's the "head" God of all the other lower gods. Most Muslims believe that, although God is all-powerful and everything, He has divided the "labor" (I'm sorry for my terminology; this is wrong, but you get what I mean) so as to assign certain angels certain tasks. For example, there's the angel who Muslims believe takes care of sending down the rain (Mikael, is it?), then there's the angel perceived to take the ruh of all living things during death (Azrael), and so on.

Hindus have a similar concept (there's ONE major God, Brahman, who has "lower" gods to make things happen -- hence the whole God of X, God of Y, etc. beliefs.

The difference is that Muslims Islamify their beliefs by saying, "Yes, we have angels who take care of these things, BUT it's only with God's permission." But then again . . .who said the Hindu gods/goddesses fulfill their tasks without God's permission? It's absolutely impossible to do ANYTHING without an omnipotent God's will anyway.

So you see my point? We still focus on differences because, the average Muslim will say:

We call them kafir because that's what they are! And we're right and they're wrong. Simple. We don't "doubt" their faith; we know their faith is wrong. (Note the difference, Guley!)

[inqilab]

So if Allah is the sole Creator, what is the Jew/Christian God doing? How about those thousands of god/godess of Greek/Hindu mythology or those thousands of supernatural beings?
How all these Gods harmonize with one another? How they distribute all resources? Why the Jews/Christian God is more powerful considering the development of Western nations?

I would like to know your 'logic' here...

LOL how could stone statues do anything? LOL

I am definitely saving this comment lol

"There are no such thing as stupid questions. Only stupid people." LOL