Jesus (peace be upon him) did not die for your sins !

[RevolutionThroughReason]

the transcendent experiences are just self deception most often, hence othese experiences ever have any productive results except in cases where logic was used to govern them

[faye]

proof please.
transcendant is not of emotions, the thinking mind nor the physical, hence transcendant. now tell me how you can use logic on that which is none of these things.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

proof? Quantum Physics, shows real results

and non-Logic governed transcendent experiences; have generally been hoopla, false claims and hocus pocus.

[faye]

how do you know they were hoopla and hocus pocus? is there a panel of trancendance experts who judge these experiences, which cannot be seen nor measured by those who are not experiencing them?
who can judge what the creator wants to say to an individual?

quantum physics is promising. i am keeping an eye on science to see if they catch up to what has been known for centuries.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

because they lack results when required to demonstrate them.

[faye]

i think they could be judged by whether they involved the senses, mind or physical.

you think people need to do some kind of tricks after such an experience? what sort of demos?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

yeah but the problem with that approach is many have just made these claims undemonstrably. Demonstrations verify if their claims are factual.

[faye]

the transcendance itself is beyond fact, lol. but why would someone need to prove it to anyone?
if i am to try and describe it, my main experience was like a peace, silence and a 'knowing' which is still with me and i probably understand it more today than when it happened.
it was as though i recieved a transference of knowledge of what god is, beyond the physical.
it is personal.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

if transcendence itself is beyond fact; then it's false. your words not mine.

[faye]

as being able to be demonstrated to exist, it is not a fact. it is what i call, a 'knowing'. the knowing is invisible.
is 'emptiness is form, form is emptiness', considerd a fact or logical?

[Zirey]

Hi Faye,
the 'fear' thing was a little attempt at irony.
Anyway, about worship, the Bible commands us to worship the Lord, and since, according to the Scriptures, Jesus is Lord, He is rightly worshipped.
The Bible records an explicit command to the angels that they should worship Jesus. During His earthly sojourn, Jesus always accepted worship when people offered it to Him spontaneously. He didn't have to stand around ordering people to bow down.
On other occasions, by contrast, the apostle Peter refused similar worship from a fellow human being. Likewise, an angel is also recorded as refusing worship from a human being.

Faye, for clarification, may I ask you about your belief that we are all part of God?
Do you believe that all things, including the physical world and its contents, are parts of God, or are only human souls/consciousnesses, the immaterial things, parts of God?
In your view, is God the sum total of all souls or consciousnesses? Or does God have a Personality of His own, separate from that of His creations?
Does the term pantheism or monism apply to your view?

RTR,
what is it that you are referring to when you mention 'original sin', 'original guilt', and sacrifice as compensation? Definitions, please. What are your specific objections? We are talking past each other.

Here is a logical rule of interpretation that will save time in evaluating the faith delivered to Christians:
Our most holy faith is all good. Therefore if something in it seems bad, you should conclude a priori that you have misunderstood something.
One simply cannot lose with Jesus. "He has done all things well," according to the testimony of His first hearers. His doing all things well includes revealing a faith that is perfect and lasting from generation to generation.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

That's poor logic, you don't verify something by preemptively accepting it as true, this is circular reasoning and a logical fallacy.

I think the problem is the Christians don't understand their own Bible and then 2000 years later people like you invent very creative but absurd reinterpretations to make it sound more reasonable but really it's not. This is why I have such a concern about Christians trying to dupe Muslims; because they want Muslims to accept absurdity on even more absurd premises. One may argue that Islam is harsh and violent and evil, but even if that was actually true, it's more advantageous for humans to believe in an Evil Truth than a Pious Lie. You're just going to have to accept that and not try to prey upon less informed Muslims by pushing the Christian narrative as factual.

[faye]

zirey, i believe there is no division between the creator and the created.
as in 'god is everything' and 'allah is one'.
a personality for the creator makes it sound as though you think of god as a human being. maybe god is a cynic
i don't belive in a devil nor a heaven and hell. nor worship. nor a tag for my beliefs.

[Zirey]

Faye,
I appreciate the clarifications. They make me think of various follow-on questions.
Anyway, people are made in God's image (according to the Bible), so there is some analogy between human beings and God. My point would be that God is someone to whom we all relate personally (whether in a good way or bad) rather than an impersonal force. It was Jesus' mission that we might know this God personally and so have more abundant life.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

this is also a view of Hindu sects that pre-date Christianity, coincidence?