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  • #76
    Wawrina's Gospel of Barnabas is a forgery

    The Alleged Gospel of Barnabas, found in Turkey recent has been shown to be forgery

    News and Analysis of Assyrian and Assyrian-related Issues Worldwide


    (AINA) -- Much has been made of the recent discovery in Turkey of a Bible purported to be written in the Aramaic language, 1,500 years ago. The Muslim media, as well as Western media outlets, quickly pounced on this, claiming this Bible contains verses attributed to Jesus Christ, in which Christ predicts the coming of Muhammad. No media outlet has published a facsimile of these verses.

    This "Bible" is written on leather in gold letters. The picture of the front cover show inscriptions in Aramaic and a drawing of a cross.



    or any native speaker of Modern Assyrian (also known as neo-Aramaic), and that would be your average Assyrian today, the inscription is easily read. The bottom inscription, which is the most clearly visible from the published photos, says the following:

    Transliteration: b-shimmit maran paish kteewa aha ktawa al idateh d-rabbaneh d-dera illaya b-ninweh b'sheeta d-alpa w-khamshamma d-maran

    Translation: In the name of our Lord, this book is written on the hands of the monks of the high monastery in Nineveh, in the 1,500th year of our Lord.

    Nineveh is the ancient Assyrian capital and is located in present-day north Iraq, near Mosul.

    There are spelling errors that are immediately noticeable.

    The first word, b'shimmit maran ("in the name of our Lord"), is erroneously spelled with a 't' instead of a 'd'. The 'd' in Assyrian is the genitive, and it prefixes the word that follows. It should read b-shimma d-maran, not b-shimmit maran (note, the last word of the sentence is correctly spelled d-maran ("of our Lord")).

    The first word also contains another spelling error. The correct spelling for "name" in Assyrian is ashma, with the initial 'a' being silent. Therefore, when correctly spelled, 'in the name of our Lord" should be written as b-ashma d-maran.

    The word idateh is misspelled, it should end with an 'a', idata. Also the phrase al idateh ("on the hands") is incorrect, it should read b-idata ("by the hands").

    The bottom sentence uses the word ktawa ("book") to refer to the book, but in Assyrian the Bible is never referred to as a "book." One says awreta (Old Testament), khdatta (New Testament), or ktawa qaddeesha (holy book). Given this, since no one has seen the inside of this "Bible," we cannot be sure if it is in fact a Bible.

    Most significantly, this writing is in Modern Assyrian, which was standardized in the 1840s. The first bible in Modern Assyrian was produced in 1848. If this book were written in 1500 A.D. it should have been written in Classical Assyrian.




    is highly unlikely for monks to make such elementary mistakes. It remains to be seen whether this book is a forgery, or even what kind of book it is.

    The bottom inscription also says the book was written in 1500 A.D.. If the book does contain verses predicting the coming of Muhammad, it is no great accomplishment to predict something 870 years after the fact, since Muhammad founded Islam in 630 A.D..

    Most media outlets, as well as Muslim and Christian outlets, lead the story with headlines pronouncing "1500 year old Bible predicts the coming of Muhammad" -- without any evidence to support this.

    For Muslims, the implications of the headlines are desirable, that Jesus Christ is a Prophet, just like Muhammad, and not the Son of God. According to Al Bawaba, the Turkish culture and tourism minister, Ertugrul Gunay, said "In line with Islamic belief, the Gospel [this Bible] treats Jesus as a human being and not a God. It rejects the ideas of the Holy Trinity and the Crucifixion and reveals that Jesus predicted the coming of the Prophet Mohammed."

    Commenting on the errors in the book, Al Bawaba says in another article:

    For example, the book says that there are nine heavens and that the tenth is paradise while in Quran they are seven only and claims that Virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus without any pain while the Quran story says she got labor pains.
    According to the gospel, Jesus said to Jewish priests that he is not the Messiah and that the Messiah is Mohammed. This means a denial of the existence of a Messiah, who is in fact Jesus Christ, and makes Jesus and Mohammed seem like they are one and the same person.

    The book also contains information that lack historical credibility like the presence of three armies, each made up of 200,000 soldiers, in Palestine whereas the entire population of Palestine 2,000 years ago did not even reach 200,000. In addition, Palestine was occupied by the Romans at the time and it is impossible that Palestine was allowed to have any army or armies of its own.

    The last sentence in chapter 217 says that 100 pounds of stones were placed on Christ's body. This confirms that the gospel was written quite recently because the first to use the pound as a unit of weight was the Ottomans in their experiments with Italy and Spain and it was never known during the time of Jesus.

    Chapter 20 also stated that the cities of Jerusalem and Nazareth are sea ports.

    This same article ends with "According to many studies, the gospel attributed to St. Barnabas was written by a European Jew in the Middle Ages who was quite familiar with the Quran and the Gospels. He, thus, mixed facts from here and there and his intentions remain unknown."

    But despite the availability of information on this "Bible," most media outlets, Muslims, liberal and secular organizations have portrayed this discovery as something that undermines Christianity, ignoring the many problems with this book and presenting it as virtual fact. In fact, in their zeal to support the anti-Christian narrative, they have withheld or suppressed information questioning the authenticity of this book. For these organizations and individuals, this is another tool in their arsenal for the attack on the foundations of Christian doctrine.

    By Peter BetBasoo and Ashur Giwargis
    [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

    2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
      The Alleged Gospel of Barnabas, found in Turkey recent has been shown to be forgery

      http://aina.org/news/2012022916569.htm

      (AINA) -- Much has been made of the recent discovery in Turkey of a Bible purported to be written in the Aramaic language, 1,500 years ago. The Muslim media, as well as Western media outlets, quickly pounced on this, claiming this Bible contains verses attributed to Jesus Christ, in which Christ predicts the coming of Muhammad. No media outlet has published a facsimile of these verses.

      This "Bible" is written on leather in gold letters. The picture of the front cover show inscriptions in Aramaic and a drawing of a cross.



      or any native speaker of Modern Assyrian (also known as neo-Aramaic), and that would be your average Assyrian today, the inscription is easily read. The bottom inscription, which is the most clearly visible from the published photos, says the following:

      Transliteration: b-shimmit maran paish kteewa aha ktawa al idateh d-rabbaneh d-dera illaya b-ninweh b'sheeta d-alpa w-khamshamma d-maran

      Translation: In the name of our Lord, this book is written on the hands of the monks of the high monastery in Nineveh, in the 1,500th year of our Lord.

      Nineveh is the ancient Assyrian capital and is located in present-day north Iraq, near Mosul.

      There are spelling errors that are immediately noticeable.

      The first word, b'shimmit maran ("in the name of our Lord"), is erroneously spelled with a 't' instead of a 'd'. The 'd' in Assyrian is the genitive, and it prefixes the word that follows. It should read b-shimma d-maran, not b-shimmit maran (note, the last word of the sentence is correctly spelled d-maran ("of our Lord")).

      The first word also contains another spelling error. The correct spelling for "name" in Assyrian is ashma, with the initial 'a' being silent. Therefore, when correctly spelled, 'in the name of our Lord" should be written as b-ashma d-maran.

      The word idateh is misspelled, it should end with an 'a', idata. Also the phrase al idateh ("on the hands") is incorrect, it should read b-idata ("by the hands").

      The bottom sentence uses the word ktawa ("book") to refer to the book, but in Assyrian the Bible is never referred to as a "book." One says awreta (Old Testament), khdatta (New Testament), or ktawa qaddeesha (holy book). Given this, since no one has seen the inside of this "Bible," we cannot be sure if it is in fact a Bible.

      Most significantly, this writing is in Modern Assyrian, which was standardized in the 1840s. The first bible in Modern Assyrian was produced in 1848. If this book were written in 1500 A.D. it should have been written in Classical Assyrian.




      is highly unlikely for monks to make such elementary mistakes. It remains to be seen whether this book is a forgery, or even what kind of book it is.

      The bottom inscription also says the book was written in 1500 A.D.. If the book does contain verses predicting the coming of Muhammad, it is no great accomplishment to predict something 870 years after the fact, since Muhammad founded Islam in 630 A.D..

      Most media outlets, as well as Muslim and Christian outlets, lead the story with headlines pronouncing "1500 year old Bible predicts the coming of Muhammad" -- without any evidence to support this.

      For Muslims, the implications of the headlines are desirable, that Jesus Christ is a Prophet, just like Muhammad, and not the Son of God. According to Al Bawaba, the Turkish culture and tourism minister, Ertugrul Gunay, said "In line with Islamic belief, the Gospel [this Bible] treats Jesus as a human being and not a God. It rejects the ideas of the Holy Trinity and the Crucifixion and reveals that Jesus predicted the coming of the Prophet Mohammed."

      Commenting on the errors in the book, Al Bawaba says in another article:

      For example, the book says that there are nine heavens and that the tenth is paradise while in Quran they are seven only and claims that Virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus without any pain while the Quran story says she got labor pains.
      According to the gospel, Jesus said to Jewish priests that he is not the Messiah and that the Messiah is Mohammed. This means a denial of the existence of a Messiah, who is in fact Jesus Christ, and makes Jesus and Mohammed seem like they are one and the same person.

      The book also contains information that lack historical credibility like the presence of three armies, each made up of 200,000 soldiers, in Palestine whereas the entire population of Palestine 2,000 years ago did not even reach 200,000. In addition, Palestine was occupied by the Romans at the time and it is impossible that Palestine was allowed to have any army or armies of its own.

      The last sentence in chapter 217 says that 100 pounds of stones were placed on Christ's body. This confirms that the gospel was written quite recently because the first to use the pound as a unit of weight was the Ottomans in their experiments with Italy and Spain and it was never known during the time of Jesus.

      Chapter 20 also stated that the cities of Jerusalem and Nazareth are sea ports.

      This same article ends with "According to many studies, the gospel attributed to St. Barnabas was written by a European Jew in the Middle Ages who was quite familiar with the Quran and the Gospels. He, thus, mixed facts from here and there and his intentions remain unknown."

      But despite the availability of information on this "Bible," most media outlets, Muslims, liberal and secular organizations have portrayed this discovery as something that undermines Christianity, ignoring the many problems with this book and presenting it as virtual fact. In fact, in their zeal to support the anti-Christian narrative, they have withheld or suppressed information questioning the authenticity of this book. For these organizations and individuals, this is another tool in their arsenal for the attack on the foundations of Christian doctrine.

      By Peter BetBasoo and Ashur Giwargis

      Wrong mister,Nenavah ( or Ninawa) is the province and Mosul its capital...it is an arab-kurd mixed region,its people are known for their bravery and resistance against foreigners and puppet soldiers.


      High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Yasmeenaah View Post
        I agree with you Afg2010 till some extent. The difference is that you think everything was changed because it did not suit catholic beliefs while I think that it was changed due to political & power reason. If you look back at the history you will realize that religion (I mean any religion) per se has been repeatedly used as a tool of power and manipulation. Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish religion from politics.

        That is aswell a factor,the pope as we know him from the past had alot of power....and power means money.
        High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation.

        Comment


        • #79
          If it comes to pope - he has also one more attribute - the pope is infallible in matters of faith and Christian morals (briefly - if he is wrong and people follows him - they don't sin). Who know, maybe it is the most important and powerfull attribute of him
          دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

          Comment


          • #80
            So to our christian brothers and sisters...here you get something


            High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation.

            Comment


            • #81
              Recently the patriarch of Rusia was here. Journalists caught him with a watch worth 30 000 USD. So on later pictures this watch was "photoshopped-out" Curch as institution is very rich almost everywhere. And very powerfull tool of politics.
              دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

              Comment


              • #82
                Afg2010, you can post hundreds posts like the one above and it won't change anything. I am not sure if you do realize the consequence of accepting such a change. Christian church needs years to change itself. It has been one of main ruler for 2000 yrs. Plus, another factor - ordinary people - their outlook and foundations of their lives would ruin. So its not gonna happen soon.
                There is also another factor which you rarely (if ever) take into account. You may agree or not. Christianity does not negate individualism and there is a place for very close, very personal contact with God. A room for deeper feeling, individual experience, meditations. Even the nature of prayers in Christianity and Islam is different. Islam is considered as more rational and hmmm... standardised.
                Last edited by یاسمینه; 09-10-2012, 05:54 PM.
                دلته دم او قدم دواړه په حساب دي - پل په لاره غلط مه ږده بې حسابه

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Afghanistan2010 View Post
                  Wrong mister,Nenavah ( or Ninawa) is the province and Mosul its capital...it is an arab-kurd mixed region,its people are known for their bravery and resistance against foreigners and puppet soldiers.
                  ]
                  talk about irrelevant; and the sentence is talking about ANCIENT capital, idiot. hehe
                  [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                  2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Afghanistan2010,

                    the Codex Sinaiticus is a fully orthodox copy. Many Bibles of today use it.
                    اَؤ په کور کښى غُلام مُدام پاتى کيږى نه،خو زوى په کور کښى مُدام پاتى کيږى

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Christianity is a nice religion, with solid foundations. But God has granted it invalid, and corrupted. But no unjustice here, since he sent Ibn Abdullah to rectify the message again

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Yasmeenaah View Post
                        Afg2010, you can post hundreds posts like the one above and it won't change anything. I am not sure if you do realize the consequence of accepting such a change. Christian church needs years to change itself. It has been one of main ruler for 2000 yrs. Plus, another factor - ordinary people - their outlook and foundations of their lives would ruin. So its not gonna happen soon.
                        There is also another factor which you rarely (if ever) take into account. You may agree or not. Christianity does not negate individualism and there is a place for very close, very personal contact with God. A room for deeper feeling, individual experience, meditations. Even the nature of prayers in Christianity and Islam is different. Islam is considered as more rational and hmmm... standardised.
                        I am aware of this facts...
                        If they would return to their roots,what Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples were following and doing.
                        High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Zirey View Post
                          Afghanistan2010,

                          the Codex Sinaiticus is a fully orthodox copy. Many Bibles of today use it.

                          It's part are not taken into consideration to add them into the Bible of Today.
                          High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            anyway, the societies most of the members on here live in, including you, 2010, were basically, created by christians.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by faye View Post
                              anyway, the societies most of the members on here live in, including you, 2010, were basically, created by christians.
                              christian influence died out in the western world hundreds of years ago. there is really no modern legacy of christian foundations to be found in europe or the americas.
                              There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                              Sayyid Qutb

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                within the modern age it was allowable by christian based societies, to create democracies.
                                secular societies incorporate their basic laws from their religious perspectives. atheists of today, are still influenced by past religious values.

                                Comment

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