Roadside 2 Islam

[faye]

easy! add grapes.

[Al Hanif]

easy! add grapes.

there is no alcohol in grape juice

[faye]

why you want me to make you some wine, anyways? there are recipes on the net.

[Manzareh]

If there are two people on a path, Person A is certain he is on a correct way and that Person B is leading himself onto a dead end, Person A can only warn Person B of the situation, its only logical for Person A to feel pity for Person B not arrogance, furthermore, how is Person A going to act when he is being persecuted for leading a path he wishes to do so, Person B gets his friends (Persons C,D and E) to constantly harm Person A, humiliate him and rob him from whatever he owns, how is Person A going to view the rest of the persons?? Personally speaking iv witnessed arrogance more from non-muslims towards Muslims, i have plenty of examples from the world if youd like me share um. Just take a look at this forum you even have a 60 odd year old woman that enjoys watching Muslims dead or being killed, just giggles and calls them snuff movies, these are their grannys imagine the rest, how you expect us to view these people in a positive light?? i dont go around in non-muslim forums and complain that people dont see life the way i do, its like me going into a nightclub forum and then taking the piss out of everyone that drinks, i dont have the right to as its a group of people with a mutual understanding and everyone is free to live life the way they want, whether its being a alcoholic or praying 5 times a day.

Forget the past we can argue about that till the grave, presently Muslims are not invading anyone, so why are they being invaded, as a result of these invasions Muslims have become so desperate that they have even blown themselves up taking more innocent people with them, nobody is going to end there life and kill other people unless a person is mentally disturbed or desperate, some have lost everything they only see these actions as the option for payback or revenge. Muslims act in self defense, but this self defense is used as a justification for even more persecution happening to Muslims which gives increased hatred for non-muslim even more.

Just leave the muslims in there own country's alone, just because you dont agree with their way of life and morals doesnt justify you imposing your way of life on them, non muslims will never succeed without more bloodshed in forcing non-muslim ideologies on Muslims as Muslims outlook is on the opposite side of the scale

[Manzareh]

Verily this is why your Allah has humbled Muslims to the lowest dirt on the ground. Maybe after you regain your humility, you may regain your former status in this dunya.

You know our Allah also humbled the greatest human being he created to the level of feces being put in his path and dirt thrown on him, Doesnt make any difference to the validity of his supreme status.

But this way of thinking is just it, its a basic understanding that a Muslim doesnt need to regain a status to show off in the Dunya to non-muslims, but focus on the akhirah, surely you should know this.

[Pakhtunzai]

i dont buy this. Islam itself empowers hypocricy and arrogance in Muslims. What do you expect when you divide the world between believers and non believers, and set special rules for yourselves, and set different criteria for the "other".

its a demonization of the "other", and its not specific to Islam but almost all ideologies. But lets not pretend Islam is perfect

Muslims can be incredibly arrogant, they believe they are the people of the correct path, no different than Jews and their Chosen people rhetoric

Anytime youre brainwashed to think you, and you only, have access to the "truth" it leads to you looking down on those led "astray", and gives an inflated sense of self

Verily this is why your Allah has humbled Muslims to the lowest dirt on the ground. Maybe after you regain your humility, you may regain your former status in this dunya.

Your Allah?

Again your pointing out the human traits in people again and classifying islam as bringing out arrogancy. Back in the day, muslims and people of other religion lived peacefully and happily. The hindus of India and muslims before the invasion of the british were getting on fine. This is only one example, in many areas the case is similar.

You have to look at the Qur'an and Sunnah as mentioned by the prophet SAW, Islam teaches against arrogancy and hypocrisy whether you believe it or not, but its up to the people whether they want to follow islam, that is why this life is a test, like I've come across muslims of different races and ethnics who are seriously arrogant to me because I wasn't one of them, is that supposed to hurt me and say islam did this to that person.

Look at our prophet SAW would you classify him as arrogant and did he think himself as above other people, he allowed christians and jews live in peace.

Barely anyone practises islam anymore, I go to my village backhome, there are at least 150-200 people there in the area and not even 10 pray regularly in the masjid. So just because someone has a muslim name and knows a bit about islam, it doesn't mean you can look at his character to represent islam as a whole. Quite a big percentage of "muslim" guys here are out in pubs and nightclubs drinking away. Then at the same time having a beard and praying 5 times salaah. Such a person lives on my road.

[IamDZJ]

when religion stays private, the people who make the laws do not. its one ideology over the other.

its no different than saying that secularism should stay private in an islamic society

one ideology must prevail.

the only other ideology that has been used as political means or enforced as a law besides sharia has been judism and that too was during the time they had actual prophets. all these centuries later, the only religion that is misused, misinterpreted and misunderstood is islam and that too because any idiot around the block is a knowitall when it comes to the subject. let's face it, at some point of time, either secularism or sharia were in power and they both failed. if these concepts are not doing what they are meant to do then why are people so much in favor of them??
the only people who are converting to islam are in societies where the shariah law isn't necessarily implied. how many enthusiastic practicing muslims do we have in a society where strict sharia laws are implied? how many of them abandon islam when they get the opportunity of doing so? WHO/WHAT IS TO BE BLAME FOR THIS?
if our mothers can't nurse us back to health, we need doctors. that doesn't make them any less important in our lives.

[faye]

i Just take a look at this forum you even have a 60 odd year old woman that enjoys watching Muslims dead or being killed, just giggles and calls them snuff movies, these are their grannys imagine the rest, how you expect us to view these people in a positive light??

Forget the past we can argue about that till the grave, presently Muslims are not invading anyone, so why are they being invaded, as a result of these invasions Muslims have become so desperate that they have even blown themselves up taking more innocent people with them, nobody is going to end there life and kill other people unless a person is mentally disturbed or desperate, some have lost everything they only see these actions as the option for payback or revenge. Muslims act in self defense, but this self defense is used as a justification for even more persecution happening to Muslims which gives increased hatred for non-muslim even more.

Just leave the muslims in there own country's alone, just because you dont agree with their way of life and morals doesnt justify you imposing your way of life on them, non muslims will never succeed without more bloodshed in forcing non-muslim ideologies on Muslims as Muslims outlook is on the opposite side of the scale

manzareh, seriously, has your brain been pummelled to mush?
have you not seen me suggest that muslims need to stop fighting each other otherwise they will remain incapable of any steps forward?
since when have i enjoyed watching muslims dieing or dead? it's your boys here that do that. they are the snuff movie buffs.
very heartfelt rave manzareh, but as usual, you guys can't find real evidence against me so you make rubbish up.
better try next time.

[Afghanistan2010]

in the contrary in more than a hundred posts,you look forward muslims fighting eachother and killing eachother,even in this forum you like when there is infighting by words within the forum members,are there any people who are worse.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

You know our Allah also humbled the greatest human being he created to the level of feces being put in his path and dirt thrown on him, Doesnt make any difference to the validity of his supreme status.

But this way of thinking is just it, its a basic understanding that a Muslim doesnt need to regain a status to show off in the Dunya to non-muslims, but focus on the akhirah, surely you should know this.

I know that, and I respect that these are your beliefs, but Muslims will never prosper and advance with the mentality of akhirah > dunya

Feel free to ignore this world while your kids are killed, your elders humiliated, your women violated and your lands desecreted. Ill leave the praying to Allah to you guys

My heaven and hell is here on earth. We need some people within our circle to focus on the dunya

[Manzareh]

^ your a cool dude and i sincerely hope you see the light one day. ameen

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Your Allah?

Again your pointing out the human traits in people again and classifying islam as bringing out arrogancy. Back in the day, muslims and people of other religion lived peacefully and happily. The hindus of India and muslims before the invasion of the british were getting on fine. This is only one example, in many areas the case is similar.

You have to look at the Qur'an and Sunnah as mentioned by the prophet SAW, Islam teaches against arrogancy and hypocrisy whether you believe it or not, but its up to the people whether they want to follow islam, that is why this life is a test, like I've come across muslims of different races and ethnics who are seriously arrogant to me because I wasn't one of them, is that supposed to hurt me and say islam did this to that person.

Look at our prophet SAW would you classify him as arrogant and did he think himself as above other people, he allowed christians and jews live in peace.

Barely anyone practises islam anymore, I go to my village backhome, there are at least 150-200 people there in the area and not even 10 pray regularly in the masjid. So just because someone has a muslim name and knows a bit about islam, it doesn't mean you can look at his character to represent islam as a whole. Quite a big percentage of "muslim" guys here are out in pubs and nightclubs drinking away. Then at the same time having a beard and praying 5 times salaah. Such a person lives on my road.

1. This is incorrect. The spread of Islam was based on many factors, including trade links/commerce, superiority of ideals, and/or violence.
Im sure the Moghul invasion, the Afghan Invasions etc were not peaceful moments in Indian history. How many millions of Hindus have Muslims killed in the Indian sub continent? How many Christians and their villages and churches have been completely wiped out from the Arabian peninsula and Anatolia? Cmon man...

2. Its irrelevant if Islam says be humble, because Islam creates a system and mentality where you cannot be humble. How can you be humble when your faith tells you, you are Allahs chosen? And that those who dont think like you are condemned? Or that your beliefs have to be spread to convert these non believers to save them from fire? This is incredibly condescending, and defines arrogance.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

^ your a cool dude and i sincerely hope you see the light one day. ameen

I respect your faith, and I support Islam in our nations, and it is the din of my father and my people, but wrora I will never return to it

[Pakhtunzai]

1. This is incorrect. The spread of Islam was based on many factors, including trade links/commerce, superiority of ideals, and/or violence.
Im sure the Moghul invasion, the Afghan Invasions etc were not peaceful moments in Indian history. How many millions of Hindus have Muslims killed in the Indian sub continent? How many Christians and their villages and churches have been completely wiped out from the Arabian peninsula and Anatolia? Cmon man...

2. Its irrelevant if Islam says be humble, because Islam creates a system and mentality where you cannot be humble. How can you be humble when your faith tells you, you are Allahs chosen? And that those who dont think like you are condemned? Or that your beliefs have to be spread to convert these non believers to save them from fire? This is incredibly condescending, and defines arrogance.

1. My grandparents lived in the time when "pakistan" didn't exist, I've spoken to many Indians..hindus and muslims likewise. Many consider us in pakistan like their brothers, there was plenty of peace and no enmity whatsoever. I'm not fully aware of what went on in the Afghan and moghul dynasties but I do know what went on when some pakhtun did some bad things, again your looking at the characters of people and counting that as "islam". Dynasties are harram anyway, it creates enmity within an empire hence they split up due to infighting. Which is exactly the demise of every single empire in India. As for the arabs and churches, did I not mention how the prophet SAW let the christians and jews be? The ignorant people that don't follow his example will get their due and be punished on the day of judgement, as if the muslims nowadays are living the time of their life. Look at how each muslim country is suffering due to their jahiliya and corrupt behaviour. In the kashmir earthquake of 2005, it was known that in the specific area a lot of homosexuality was occurring as well as other bad things. In Iraq there was lots of infighting and observance to islam became less, in palestine there is also lots of infighting, look at the trouble between fatah and hamas, if the brothers there cannot help each other how can they even dream of getting their land back. When General Nasser of Egypt in 1970s stood up for palestine all the other arab countries laughed and left him to it, this lead to him getting slaughtered within a short time. When he called for all arabs to unite, they didn't.... Now they are all paying the price, theres not exactly peace in arab countries is it? Don't even get me started on Afghanistan and Pakistan, if people were good to each other in Afghanistan(northern alliance backstabbing taliban) and united, I guarantee America would have had a severely hard time trying to even enter Afghanistan.

2. No my brother, who are we to say that we are certain to enter heaven, this life is a test for a reason, isn't it said that what separates us from the kuffaar is the prayer..five times a day salaah. If this was the case our prophet SAW wouldn't have even been sent or when he was he would mention just say the shahada and you are chosen and 100% certain to enter heaven but NO that isn't the case. To be a muslim is a very big thing brother, you have to observe the salaah 5 times a day, you have to observe the full 5 pillars of islam, be good to others, avoid harram, observe fasting...You know all this...

Haven't you heard of the story of the imam and the prostitute? There was an imam and he observed islam all the way to the maximum, he was good to others, observed fasting and prayed every salaah as well as leading them. Except he did one wrong thing consistently, he didn't listen to his mother, he ignored her totally..

There was a prostitute, she sinned all her life up until one moment in her life, she was dying of thirst and had some water with her, she saw a dog also suffering and dying of thirst. As a result she gave all her water to the dog. The imam got sent to hell because of his bad treatment of his mother and the prostitute got sent to heaven because of her one good deed.

It is also said that if you have even an *atom* of pride you won't enter heaven, that speaks volumes.... So nothing is guaranteed, remember people aren't perfect, we are created like this so we can be tested. Allah prefers those people who sin and in turn ask him for forgiveness over those who stay sinless all their life. I myself hate arrogance and pride....

I wish you the best of luck bro, you are one of the more civilised people here. I agree with Manzareh, Inshallah you will see the light one day.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Im not denying Muslims and Non Muslims lived in peace, Im just saying there was also massive killings as well

You say this is the work of corrupted Muslims and not Islam, but let me ask you. Does Islam not require you spread the faith? Does Islam not encourage conversations?

It is not a stretch to say, that a religion that tells you that as a believer youre special, and non believers are condemned, and encourages you to convert and spread the faith, does this not tell you that the religion itself indirectly creates a circumstance where this faith will be spread with violence? Does Allah not know the weaknesses of man, to anticipate this would happen?