Preaching Christianity should be stopped in Afghanistan.

[Roshina]

Oh, and about the starvation of our people - indeed, if they weren't starving, they woudln't be so easily enticed by the non-Muslims. Think about it:

How many Muslim countries have striven to help Afghanistan? How many Muslim humanitarian organizations have done anything to ensure that Afghanistan's children, elderly, and people in general are well-fed, well-educated, and healthy?

If the non-Muslims (e.g., Christian missionaries) are doing more than the Muslims (e.g., Muslim organizations) are doing in the country, what else would you expect? When people sleep and wake up with empty stomachs, the last thing on their mind is whether they'll go to heaven or hell. Sure, many poor people become even more devoted to their religion because they're told that if they're patient, they'll go to heaven, where they'll NEVER be starved or suffer in any other way, but you can't blame them for turning to non-Muslims for support, if that's what the starved people of Afghanistan are doing.

From an Islamic point of view, I'd say the blame is on the Muslims, if there's any blame on anyone at all: What are WE -- both Afghans and Muslims -- doing for Afghanistan? How have we used our time, means, education, and skills to better the status and condition of our people? If the non-Muslims are more dedicated to helping them, even if it's for reasons that have to do with gaining more converts, then why stop them?

You can't stop them just because they're converting your people, if that's what they're doing. Your people are being fed. If you ask the poor people, I bet my life on the fact that they'll say: "I'm more interested in food right now and a promise of a healthy life, NOT in whether I pray five times a day."

So, part of what I'm suggesting is, if what the non-Muslims are doing is bad in your opinion, then stand up and do something BETTER than what they're doing. This might mean feeding your people, educating them, etc. Otherwise, don't speak at all.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I want to read this constitution. Last time I check the constitution of Afghanistan other religions were allowed to practice their belief. I did not read anything to the extend that preaching is not allowed.

If I misread it I would like to see it.

[DaNangarharZuwan]

Two Christians groups suspended in Afghanistan

By Clare Sestanovich Tuesday, June 1, 2010 - 4:57 PM


The Norwegian Church Aid (NCA) and Church World Service (CWS), two aid organizations operating in Afghanistan, were suspended yesterday from carrying out relief projects in the country. The damning transgression? An offending telephone book listing.
Controversy over the operations of the two groups first ignited when Noorin TV, a broadcasting company in Afghanistan, aired footage of baptisms and Christian prayer meetings in the country. Noorin sought to link the clips to NCA and CWS, but later conceded they had no conclusive evidence that either organization is involved in missionary activity. The company's director, Muhammed Arif Noori, admitted he was prompted to raise the alarm when skimming a directory of non-government organizations working in Afghanistan: the word "Church" in the names of both groups caught his eye and wound up inspiring his attack.
In spite of Noorin's dubious fact-finding, the government responded by suspending both groups-an action they say is fully backed by the law: in Afghanistan, proselytizing isn't merely frowned upon. It's downright illegal. The country's Constitution bans converting from Islam, or even just trying to get someone else to convert. Both NCA and CWS deny taking part in any evangelical activity. (Indeed, even Mohammed Sediq Amarkhiel, spokesman for Afghanistan's Ministry of Economy, acknowledged both groups are known for "doing a good job.") The NCA general secretary expressed hope for a "speedy and positive solution" to the fall-out, but at least for now, his organization-and its 8 million dollar budget for Afghanistan alone-will have to sit on the sidelines

[DaNangarharZuwan]

Oh, and about the starvation of our people - indeed, if they weren't starving, they woudln't be so easily enticed by the non-Muslims. Think about it:

How many Muslim countries have striven to help Afghanistan? How many Muslim humanitarian organizations have done anything to ensure that Afghanistan's children, elderly, and people in general are well-fed, well-educated, and healthy?

If the non-Muslims (e.g., Christian missionaries) are doing more than the Muslims (e.g., Muslim organizations) are doing in the country, what else would you expect? When people sleep and wake up with empty stomachs, the last thing on their mind is whether they'll go to heaven or hell. Sure, many poor people become even more devoted to their religion because they're told that if they're patient, they'll go to heaven, where they'll NEVER be starved or suffer in any other way, but you can't blame them for turning to non-Muslims for support, if that's what the starved people of Afghanistan are doing.

From an Islamic point of view, I'd say the blame is on the Muslims, if there's any blame on anyone at all: What are WE -- both Afghans and Muslims -- doing for Afghanistan? How have we used our time, means, education, and skills to better the status and condition of our people? If the non-Muslims are more dedicated to helping them, even if it's for reasons that have to do with gaining more converts, then why stop them?

You can't stop them just because they're converting your people, if that's what they're doing. Your people are being fed. If you ask the poor people, I bet my life on the fact that they'll say: "I'm more interested in food right now and a promise of a healthy life, NOT in whether I pray five times a day."

So, part of what I'm suggesting is, if what the non-Muslims are doing is bad in your opinion, then stand up and do something BETTER than what they're doing. This might mean feeding your people, educating them, etc. Otherwise, don't speak at all.

Qrratugai, Your pos again from an Afghan point of view makes no sense.

In Afghanistan, according to our constitution, The conversion to another religion is NOT ALLOWED. Now take it with a grain of salt, But you must respect its law. Refrain from making fun of my countrys law even if you intend to. That is the constitution, You are all over the place, Explaining all these unnecessary concepts.

How about you read this, And step up your knowledge, Please, for the sake of Pashtuns,Read. Its not allowed, Just like how you can not rob someone and say well I was poor.

Read this.

http://pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=46571#post46571

[DaNangarharZuwan]

I want to read this constitution. Last time I check the constitution of Afghanistan other religions were allowed to practice their belief. I did not read anything to the extend that preaching is not allowed.

If I misread it I would like to see it.

Our country's Constitution bans converting from Islam, or even just trying to get someone else to convert.

So in this sense, Qrratugai's post makes no sense if looken at from Afghan perspective which I said I am, and have been doing.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Which article says this?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I have it in front of me. I can't find what you are referring. Which article says it?

[Mr.Niazi]

Listen guys we all are Muslims ..we should respect our country and Islam ..the thing is some people think it is ok to preach christinity in Afghanistan ..well that's what you think because the people of Afghanistan won't let that to happen and also the governement of afghanistan said that we will arrest those who convert ..because they think once they convert then they will be against Afghanistan and also Against afghan people.............. ..So nor saar makhoga wai

[Roshina]

@ Mr. Niazi:
If the people of Afghanistan won't let it happen, then we've got nothing to worry about. What's the concern here then?

[tor_khan]

What's the point of having the sorta faith that's changed by a dollar? If your religion is so clearly correct, why would any preacher alter it? Is our national identity so weak that it can be changed just like that?

If our people can believe that there was a man who was also his own son and the intermediary between them who died on a cross but then went up to heaven to live with his father even though the father and son were always one being to begin with and if you symbolically eat his/their flesh and blood, you'll be 'saved'.... if our people can believe THAT, they might as well become Hindus for all I care. Jai Raam, anyone?

That kind of sums up a Muslim view (and a Chrisitian rejectionist view) of Christianity.

Whilst the Muslim world has a lot of deep, deep thinking to do and it needs to break free of Western Economic dependance, the worst thing about Christian prosletising in places like Afghanistan is the cultural chauvanism that it inherently is - haven't the Afghan wars been exactly about the resistance of this?

What we have now is a mess, but many have died in Afghanistan to protect their indepedence. Afghans have the right to accept or reject a Christian missionary presence.

[Mr.Niazi]

[QUOTE=Qrratugai;46618]@ Mr. Niazi:
If the people of Afghanistan won't let it happen, then we've got nothing to worry about. What's the concern here then?[/QUOTE. Yeah we don't have worry because the afghan goverenment said that we will arrest those who convert ...in 2006 one afghan boy converted he was arresested after that and after a few months he was realesed and Italy soldier took him to Italy ...so now he is Italy citizenship

[Toramana]

Whilst the Muslim world has a lot of deep, deep thinking to do and it needs to break free of Western Economic dependance,...

This is glaring pan-Islam...the cat is out of the bag.

the worst thing about Christian prosletising in places like Afghanistan is the cultural chauvanism that it inherently is - haven't the Afghan wars been exactly about the resistance of this?

This is a blatant mistatement. A religious mission cannot be called cultural chauvinism. Neither there are any hidden intentions of that in the missions. The millions of Hindus that have been converted to Christianity in Hindustan still practice their culture.

The resistance was a natural response to an invasion not something as resistance to cultural chauvinism. We should not promote fallacies.

What we have now is a mess, but many have died in Afghanistan to protect their indepedence. Afghans have the right to accept or reject a Christian missionary presence.

So do have other nations including Britian whether to accept Muslims in their folds or not. There cannot be unilateral advantage.

[Roshina]

Yeah we don't have worry because the afghan goverenment said that we will arrest those who convert ...in 2006 one afghan boy converted he was arresested after that and after a few months he was realesed and Italy soldier took him to Italy ...so now he is Italy citizenship

Whew - good to hear he's safe! Lucky for him, 'cause not all Muslims who leave Islam are left in peace.

[Khushal Khan Khattak]

This is glaring pan-Islam...the cat is out of the bag.

Yes! thatis exactly what we were plotting for? Ooooh, I am scared!!
Seriously, do you mean to say Islam is here to accept lying low or be second grade to the likes of fake made up do it yourself so called religions like Christianity??? which is more like Paulanity since they revere the thirsty for Christian Blood Jewish ultra radical Paul as more important than Poor Jesus himself !!! LOL.

Or are you more of a Capitalist ........ you know what?? well, Islam isnt socialism or communism either, so dont worry, though Islam does believe in a fair and balanced economy with equal opportunities. Dont believe me? read up on the times between 600-1400 AD.

This is a blatant mistatement. A religious mission cannot be called cultural chauvinism.

Say pretty please, sorry, say hi instead of Assalam o Alaikum, eat with forks and spoons rather than the Sunnah way etc. etc. when giving out small doses of aid to poor people, plus making them realize how women should stand shoulder to shoulder etc. etc. is Western Culture disguised in the name of Aid.

Well, you are right!! it isnt cultural chauvinism, its more like the good old Western wipe out the miserable Red Indians by a massacre whichever way kind of stuff.

However, Afghans are not helpless Godless innocents like the Red Indians, LOL!!!

The resistance was a natural response to an invasion not something as resistance to cultural chauvinism. We should not promote fallacies.

It was actually both, or rather is both. One question: have you ever been to Afghanistan dear Toramana?? had you been you certainly would not have said what you said.

So do have other nations including Britian whether to accept Muslims in their folds or not. There cannot be unilateral advantage.

Oooh! Pan-Christos or Pax_Christos (which after correction becomes: Pan-Paulinity or Pax-Paulonica), ha ha ha, hey just one question for you buddy!!! Do you also say:

God wills it !!!



with every sentence?? as in the good old Crusader style???

[Toramana]

Yes! thatis exactly what we were plotting for? Ooooh, I am scared!!
Seriously, do you mean to say Islam is here to accept lying low or be second grade to the likes of fake made up do it yourself so called religions like Christianity??? which is more like Paulanity since they revere the thirsty for Christian Blood Jewish ultra radical Paul as more important than Poor Jesus himself !!! LOL.

That is the main problem. We don't want to lay low although we have little goodness in ourselves but want to be the privileged citizens of the world, with complete freedom to preach our religion whereever we like and the right to live on the lands of the infidels with full liberty. We are not willing to allow the same right to other people.

I fear one day the rest of the world will say, enough of Muslims and will sit to do something final about us.

Or are you more of a Capitalist ........ you know what?? well, Islam isnt socialism or communism either, so dont worry, though Islam does believe in a fair and balanced economy with equal opportunities. Dont believe me? read up on the times between 600-1400 AD.

When by the way? Why not see the "Dewan" of Hadrath Ummar? The nobility of Quraish had the highest stipend whereas a Bediun Arab had the lowest. A non-Arab was not even a proper citizen and was called Mawla.

Say pretty please, sorry, say hi instead of Assalam o Alaikum, eat with forks and spoons rather than the Sunnah way etc. etc. when giving out small doses of aid to poor people, plus making them realize how women should stand shoulder to shoulder etc. etc. is Western Culture disguised in the name of Aid.

What is wrong with that? Why not go the stone age instead of using the Internet start writing on bones and communicating through mukhbirs, riding on donkeys instead of cars, etc.

Well, you are right!! it isnt cultural chauvinism, its more like the good old Western wipe out the miserable Red Indians by a massacre whichever way kind of stuff.

However, Afghans are not helpless Godless innocents like the Red Indians, LOL!!!

It is not wiping out. The destitute Afghans have little for which they may be wiped out. It is a matter of fair play and liberty ... if the message seems reasonable to you accept it, otherwise reject it. Why block it altogethor?