Preaching Christianity should be stopped in Afghanistan.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Free speech.

It's also free speech. Oh, and freedom of religion.



You have a tough time with the concept of 'free speech' don't you?

Free speech is.


Nope. Just basic human rights.

Free speech is your religion right?

[akbarkhan]

@sangar he is talking about this kinda 'free speech'

"The Obama administration on Monday called Thomas' remarks "offensive and reprehensible." The comments also drew sharp criticism from Jewish group and former friends, and let a Washington-area high school to cancel its invitation for her to speak at its high school graduation."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3901659,00.html

oh btw according to ozy 'you don't have the right to be offended' when it comes to free speech, so I wonder why the white house finds her comments 'offensive and reprehensible'?

[ozymandias]

Free speech is your religion right?

Nope. It's a part of the UN Declaration of human rights -- and one of the ones most simply understood, but still blatantly violated. Without discussing something as easily understood as 'free speech' first, what hope can we have of discussing other, more complex human rights, like freedom of religion?

[ozymandias]

@sangar he is talking about this kinda 'free speech'

"The Obama administration on Monday called Thomas' remarks "offensive and reprehensible." The comments also drew sharp criticism from Jewish group and former friends, and let a Washington-area high school to cancel its invitation for her to speak at its high school graduation."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3901659,00.html

oh btw according to ozy 'you don't have the right to be offended' when it comes to free speech, so I wonder why the white house finds her comments 'offensive and reprehensible'?

Ok, seriously, please stop lying. I have said 'you do not have the right *NOT* to be offended' that is exactly the opposite of what you claim I said. Not only have I stated this repeatedly, I have gone to extreme lengths defending your right *TO* be offended. The whole point is that you have every right to say *ANYTHING* you want to say as part of political or religious speech -- and you listeners can be offended if they so choose, as long as they react appropriately.

It's dissappointing how intelledtually dishonest and full of lies some of you people are. There is no defense, given how clear and explicit my stances are, to get them reveresed like that -- and it happens *way* too often on this board.

Frankly, I am mildly offended right now, that you don't even think I am smart enough or observant enough to catch you on such an open and bald faced lie.

[akbarkhan]

Ok, seriously, please stop lying. I have said 'you do not have the right *NOT* to be offended' that is exactly the opposite of what you claim I said. Not only have I stated this repeatedly, I have gone to extreme lengths defending your right *TO* be offended. The whole point is that you have every right to say *ANYTHING* you want to say as part of political or religious speech -- and you listeners can be offended if they so choose, as long as they react appropriately.

It's dissappointing how intelledtually dishonest and full of lies some of you people are. There is no defense, given how clear and explicit my stances are, to get them reveresed like that -- and it happens *way* too often on this board.

Frankly, I am mildly offended right now, that you don't even think I am smart enough or observant enough to catch you on such an open and bald faced lie.

Seems like I have touched a nerve eh? It is not intellectual dishonesty it is but a systematic approach that exposes your double standards!

On one hand you force someone like Helen Thomas to 'resign' because she made 'offensive' remarks on the other you gave out multi-billion contracts to Erik prince even after he said 'Afghans are barbarians who crawled out of the sewer'.

Someone says something harsh about Israel - they commit career suicide.
Someone says something harsh about Muslims - they get praised and rewarded.

North Korea does something oppressive - United States asks China to condemn N Korea.
Israel does something oppressive - United States does not condemn Israel.


Intellectual honesty!!?

[ozymandias]

Seems like I have touched a nerve eh? It is not intellectual dishonesty it is but a systematic approach that exposes your double standards!

It's called making a point. There are no double standards -- just you lying about what I actually said and believe, and then believing your own lies and getting confused.

On one hand you force someone like Helen Thomas to 'resign' because she made 'offensive' remarks

First of all, I did not force her to do anything. I simply stated that if the organization she represents feels that what she does is not in the organizations best interest, they have the right to terminate her position.

Let me put it another way: She is free to say what she wants, and offend whomever she wants. Her organization is under no obligation not to be offended, or to take legal action to limit the damage. They felt that she offended people that they found important to their continued successful operations, so they reacted to that offense.

Notice: no one died.

[/quote]

on the other you gave out multi-billion contracts to Erik prince even after he said 'Afghans are barbarians who crawled out of the sewer'.[/QUOTE]

Here you go confusing the issue again. We *were* discussing an organizations reaction to an offensive comment made in public, and here you drag in a private comment *NOT* made in public -- and thus the fact that it was offensive did not manage to harm any organizations image -- until it was leaked out *AFTER* he had already resigned .

Your timing is way off -- no wonder you are getting confused.

[akbarkhan]

Notice: no one died.

Kiddy, millions of Palastinians have died and are dying!!!

We *were* discussing an organizations reaction to an offensive comment made in public, and here you drag in a private comment *NOT* made in public -- and thus the fact that it was offensive did not manage to harm any organizations image -- until it was leaked out *AFTER* he had already resigned .

lol so just because one thing was public and the other in private justifies everything? Infact what Erik Prince said wasn't private, he said that in a meeting.

Even if you want to push this whole 'private' vs 'public' thing, then why was Helen forced to resign over her comment but when McCain was singing 'bomb bomb Iran' in public that was acceptable?

Double standards!!!

US prods China to condemn North Korea's sinking of warship

US declines to condemn Israel for flotilla raid

[Badlun]

The topic is about preaching christianity so please let be focused there.

Preaching is done by all religions and every where. Its a very complex issue and one cant resolve it by saying that Christians may be stopped to preach and bulid their worship places and practise their religion in Afghanistan or elsewhere. If christians do the same thing and they dont allow the Muslims to the same thing in their lands then it will be a catastrophe to Muslims , to others as well as for the world peace and prosperity.

If Muslims are adament that they wont let others to preach, practise other religions in their lands then they must be mentally prepared that if on reciprocity basis others will do the same to Muslims in their lands then Muslims will have to pack themselves from all non Muslim countries to go back to their underdevelped world - This way many families will lose jobs, education and the prosperity they are enjoying in the non Muslim world.

The problem is that in your own Muslim specially Arab countries if you live for hundreds years , you wont get citizenship but in non Muslim countries you get it very easily and in the case the non muslims dont want you to be there you have to lose every thing.

The question is not preaching christianity in Afghanistan but if they stop you preaching Islam in their lands as Muslims are now not only living in Muslim world but are widely spread through out the non Muslim world. Any reaction on non Muslim part will have serious consequences like closing the mosques, cultural centres, ban on Muslim preaching groups etc etc.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I have one question for those who are against Christianity being preached in Afghanistan.

What are you afraid of? That people would convert?

Well, who are you to decide?

Does not Allah say that He is the One Who guides?
Does Allah not say that no one can be misguided once Allah guides that person?
Does not Allah say that no one can be guided if Allah does not want them to be guided?

So, what is to whole fuss over? Is your faith that weak? Do you even believe that Allah exists? Or you people cultural Muslims?

Allah says in the Holy Quran that it is up to people to choose what they want to believe. They have until their death to choose. Once they are dead they are judged.

For Allah's sake read the Holy Quran and stop distorting Islam via political means.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You know what the solution is for that?

Stop bullying people and start educating our people.

It is about time that people start following Islam and not ghairat-e afghani (Afghan pride).

Islam obligates us to get educated so that we are not easily fooled. We Pashtuns need to be educated, not only because we might get converted, but because people are misusing our clean and well-intentioned hearts left, right and center. History is a witness to this.

This is a wake up call for us all to get educated, men, women, children, elderly, servants, anyone and everyone.

That is the solution. Not scare mongering.

[pekhawar]

MWMN,
What you fail to understand is our current situation, Presently we are UNEDUCATED. So that means our entire convert might become the Christian republic of Afghanistan. Your ideas is good, but far-fetched.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Listen if we don't start today we will never start. Afghanistan has a literacy rate of less than 15%.

How on earth do you think the Taliban are able to fool us? Because we are uneducated. There is only one difference between the Taliban and Christianity, the Taliban claim that they are Muslims. Other than that there is no difference between the Taliban and the Christians. The both don't lead to Allah. At least with Christianity you will become more human.

The Taliban have a strong footing in the Pashtun region because we are culturally similar to them. They are using this to misguide us with their "ideology" of Islam. You read correctly, ideology.

We are in a lose-lose situation.

It is time for us to start educating our people.

Nonetheless, guidance is in the hands of Allah. If He allows it then there is a greater good: we might wake up and start getting educated at ALL costs.

[Shayesta]

On what grounds should they be stopped?

On grounds of Islam! I completely agree with Farhan wror, if you are a truly follower of Islam and Quran-e-Sharif then no way you will say 'okay' to preaching of other religions and to approving Muslims changing their religion! In Islam it very clearly stated that if a Muslims converts from Islam, you should try to convert him back to Islam and like that he can seek forgiveness. But when he stays a non-Muslims then a huge punishment is on the list for him, this is not mine or other member's personal willingness; This is Islam!

Other than your personal willingness to infringe on basic human rights?

Human right my foot! In these people's eyes human right is when Jews were oppressed by Hitler, but what about Jewish oppression against Palestine? Human right is when people make 'offensive' comments about Jews, but what about 'draw prophet (PBUH) Muhammad day'? Human rights is when three thousand people died in 9/11, but what about those millions killed in Iraq? Human right is what these Westerners make of it, you think they give a sh*t about what Muslims are going through?

Interesting that you only care for basic human rights when it suits you. So what if they *are* wrong?

Same could be said about these Westerners; They offered these Christian-converts a place in West and better lives, while millions of other poor Afghans, who are Muslim, still are waiting for a better tomorrow. These Westerners should keep their human rights to themselves, like someone said we don't go and print the Quran-e-Sharif in English go round people's houses!

What are you afraid of? That people would convert?

Not only that, when Taliban returns (and I can bet they gonna return to some areas) then you should see the bloodshed in Afghanistan again! And I can bet these people mostly convert for a place in West and I do wish them good lives, but what if in this hope people keep converting to Christianity and they are left to their fates back in Afghanistan? You think those extreme Muslims are gonna spare them?

Well, who are you to decide?

We, the Muslims, aren't deciding anything; Allah Subhana Wa Tallah already has. You are supposed to convert a from Islam converted man/woman back to Islam, otherwise he must see a punishment in this lifetime. That's Islam for you, not just Muslims. If Muslims in West decide to leave their religion then I don't give a damn because they are educated enough and know what they are doing, but unfortunately Afghans are very easily fooled and we can't afford to have more fools on our land if we want peace, finally!

So, what is to whole fuss over? Is your faith that weak?

It's not about our, people in this Forum's, views. Afghans are uneducated and since they can't read the Quran-e-Sharif as it hardly is findable in Dari/Pukhto, they take the lies edited in the bible and take that as the truth. I will give you that Afghans should try to contribute Quran-e-Sharif in Dari/Pukhto more often, but still, the soldiers are there to do their tasks (whatever that might be) and not preach Christianity and that also about a bible which God knows how many times it has been edited!

I remember how when we newly came to West these people were eager to convert Muslims to Christianity, bring us to Church and not to forget those so many crap was told about Christianity that I don't even remember what they said, except for that it didn't match what was said in Islam at all. But except for the Iranians none else fell for it, and even those Iranians did it so they get a quicker visa and guess what? They had to wait the longest for a visa as their sole point was just converting them, LOL. Do you as a Muslim agree that in the bible it is supposed to be written that after Christianity another religion will come that will be the last to be accepted by everyone, which happens to be Islam? Then can you tell me were in the bible you will find that verse while in Quran-e-Sharif the verses are there? Even Westerners admit their bible is edited a thousand times and that's the reason why majority of these people are Atheist, not Christians.

[Pakhtunzai]

This is true, we have a Qandahari brother who comes here twice a year and he is trying his best to save as many kids as possible from the clutches of these crusaders. He says if he doesn't help..who will? Pretty sad

May Allah help him on his mission..

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

The key is to educate not instill fear in peoples' hearts.