Sharia or Secular State?

[ScimitarXEdge]

I think the fact that most of the irreligious societies are prosperous is mainly do to widespread corruption and underhanded practices which violate any standards of ethics. The Misuse of Science and Technology to exploit Nature and consume wastefully as is prominent in the societies where religion has taken negligence is not a testimony of their progress. It just means that their greed driven motivations are strong and they will hungrily use anything, even science to accomplish their debauchery on this planet.

An example like Saudi Arabia is not only of not being Shari'ah but an example of what Shari'ah is aimed to oppose. If the fact the British created it is any clue as to how un-Shari'ah it actually is, then I rest my case.


We have plenty of evidence and literature regaridng what Shari'ah is to know that it actually provide more prosperous society than even the Modern Materialistic societies have brought. I mean It connected all of asia without damaging the Environment, that's a testimony of its merits. The Secular West went into Asia and left it devastated for generations

[Alchemist]

a secular shari'ah state

heh

honestly I am an advocate of Unified Muslim Government under Islamic Measures of Social Order and Governance (i.e. Khilafah) but I believe in a Reexamination of Shari'ah Law in terms of contemporary contexts but within their original scope.

Most people may consider my approach as being Crypto-Secular or covertly secular; I believe an Islamic System m should be mainly focused on social order, behavior, penal, family law, Socio-cultural Zeitgeist between Muslims

But other aspects , science, economic development, technology, international affairs should remain very minimal, except in certain ethically relevant circumstances, to be influenced by Religious Ordinances, but rather practical and ethical concerns in general which are necessary to the benefit of society. This means creationist doctrines are strictly shunned from public policy or educational curriculum unless they can prove their case with strict scientific reduction.

When it comes to dealing with other religions or religious minorities; we should approach them in a way very different than the traditional legal opinions have suggested and even overturning certain rulings, which in fact are not explicitly Stated within Islamic Texts but were implemented later on by the Early Khilafah. Non-Muslim minorities may openly practice their faith, except in cases of trying to encourage Muslims to convert to their respective faiths.. In such instances they are seen as attempt at stirring disorder, and state involvement will occur. Christians may however ring church bells, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs may have public processions in the street. their processions however should not contain elements which are expressing hostility towards Islam or Muslims, even Muslim historical figures who may have had conflicts with these respective groups. example Abdali vs. the Sikhs.

Similarly Muslims may not do Dawa'ah to Non-Muslims; all conversions to another faith should be purely individually motivated. Dawa'ah should be restricted to Muslims who may have short comings in their religion and attempts to encourage them to be more strongly practicing. No coercive measure can be taken to make someone practice.

The Official State Doctrine will not follow Shi'ite or Sunnite doctrines, but will be Mu'atazili. Sunnite and Shi'ite Dogmatists who attempt at stirring upheaval will be imprisoned, and depending on their degree of hostile activity, penalized with a maximum of capital punishment. This applies across the board. Sectarian Conflicts will be strictly banned. Wahhabi Literalists are accepted so long as they don't attempt to push their doctrine. Open debates and discourse between science and religion or between different religions or even between atheism and religion or between sects is accepted but the debates must follow strict guidelines of rational.

Strong revisions regarding Women's Social Role will be re-examined and re-evaluated according to the Original Practices of Early Muslims and Islam. Women will have open access to educational facilities and job opportunities within science, politics/social governance, education, medicine, technology, legal system. Women will however not be allowed to participate in combat roles unless it is necessary by circumstance or in case of a situation in which the security of society is breached by warring group or nation and in all essence no other options are left. However, women will be required enlist in acquiring self defense training, combat training, weapons training. Women can also be police officers but they are primarily only focused on crimes dealing with female perpetrators. Men and women will be allowed to coeducate and work with each other, but their interactions will be monitored and strictly regulated.

Islamic Modesty Codes will also be examined; Hijab/Burqa/Niqab will be permitted but not mandated, but there is a minimum standard of appropriate public attire for males and females. The standards of Lewdness will be examined from the perspectives skin/flesh allowed to be shown. Generally, things which expose the thighs, even partially are considered lewd, exposure of cleavage is lewd, tight clothing is lewd. If however there are somethings which cannot be fully concealed, this is not considered lewd, but only if adequate measures are taken to ensure they're concealed. Fines will be applied of no less than 2/3rds of monthly salary in convicted cases.

Outward religious practices while being permitted publicly, is a private matter; So when it comes to Fasting, Praying Salaat or any Islamic Mandatory form of worship. This is not enforced by the state, but left up to the conscience of the Muslim. The hadith regarding burning someone's house down if they're not attending the jama'at, was stated in a much different circumstance than we are in, so is not applicable to us now. Anyone who attempts to coerce someone by violent methods, will be arrested for inciting fitnah. Prayers can be offered in Any Language, but state run facilities will hold prayers only in the Fusha Dialect of Arabic.

Marriage Laws will be abided by according to Islam; a Muslim female can only marry a Muslim male and her marriage is only attainable through a cooperation of parents, familial guardianship and a state social service specifically with these matters. Elopements are illegal and will have a penalty. Approaching women for marriage will be governed through formal processes, such as a marriage service, also state operated which will attempt at coordinating between suitable spouses.

Polygyny will be allowed but strictly controlled, a Muslim male may not marry for sexual motives exclusively, must have mutual consent of all parties, the first wife, the second or Nth and their respective guardianship and state agency. Also, problems bearing children, and helping a poorer woman financially. Marriages of this nature will also be examined based on population ratio of marriageable females. If marriageable females are equal with marriageable males, then the process of taking a second wife is revoked. A Maximum of 4 wives are permitted. Concubineship of prisoners of war is banned for whatever reason.

Muslim males and Non-Muslim females who are from a Abrahamic Religion may marry, but their marriages will be strictly examined and determined based on motivation. If marriage is being done on the basis of the Non-Muslim females desire to convert to Islam, then this is an approved motive. If it is on basis of some unacceptable romantic interlude prior to seeking marriage this is prohibited. Similarly a Non-Muslim females parents and also a state social service agency must be employed to negotiate a marriage. If all parties concur about the felicity of pursuing marriage then the marriage will be approved. Marriage with Hindus, Sikhs or Non Abrahamic Faith followers is prohibited unless they have already converted independently.

Sexual Needs and Sexual Health will be an important facet of society and publicly addressed. Marriage is the only acceptable sexual outlet; but because we understand the sexual need starts early, we will allow provisional marriages for youths, by which they can marry only if they fulfill requirements of a special promisary, which wiill transition them into marital and professional life when they're no longer. Although the need for sexual health is a motivating factor, it should not be the 'motive", all other marriiage rules listed will apply. Cohabitation will begin once the male spouse is professionally competent

Physical Pornography, prostitution and lewd sexual interactions of any sort outside of marital context will be strictly prohibited. Rape will be a capital offense. People who attempt at producing pornography for whatever reason will receive capital punishment. Prostitution will be examined under much more careful examination, prostitutes coerced into the act must undergo a rehabilitation program, those who engaged in the act willingly without financial need, will receive capital penalty; "pimps" will also receive capital punishment. Fornicators will be penalized 100 lashes and banished to an internment camp. Adulterers who are married will receive capital punishment, discreetly and through special injections of highly concentrated opiates.

Written pornography (erotic literature) or simulated pornography (cartoons, computer simulations etc etc ) which does not involve live humans, will have tolerance on the basis that it is properly licensed. Computer Simulated pornography is only permitted between married spouses as a marital aid. Public broadcast of such things will have heavy fines , up to a maximum of 2/3rds of yearly salary and all proceeds if this is being broadcasted for profit. Unmarried youths below the ages of 18 are not allowed pornographic materials. Unmarried persons above 18 are only allowed written pornography (erotic literature), also on the basis of a special license, they may not distribute copy or publicly display this material or encourage others to read the material. Those who are convicted of doing so will have their license immediately revoked and pay a fine of 1/3rd their yearly salary, if unemployed they must work for a public service until their work meets the average Income of a Standard Single adult male.

Cases of spousal abuse and marital dischord will be examined, a spouse convicted of spousal abuse will have their marriage annulled and a fine must be paid in recompense of the abused spouse. Verbal abuse is also not tolerated, but a state social worker will intervene in attempt to resolve the marriage, if this fails then marriage will be dissolved and a divorce issued.



Belief too will be a private matter, even if the Offiicial State Doctrine acknowledges Tawhid. If someone is outwardly Muslim, but inwardly absent of belief in God, he/she shall be left alone so long as he/she does not try to stir immorality or violate the moral code of the society or behave with hostility to the doctrinal belief; this does not include disagreement on intellectual grounds which will actually be promoted and encouraged in society. If someone converts from Islam, there is no persecution, unless they attempt to overturn the order of society and sow immorality/dischord etc. However, depending on when it is a male/female their relationship to their Muslim spouse will be terminated, and they are no longer allowed to cohabit with one another. Sexual relations between them will be considered sexual immorality and penalized similarly.

There will be a strict ban and restriction on alcohol or other intoxicating substances. This includes marijuana, naswar, qat or other considerably innocuous forms This will apply to everyone, Muslim and Non-Muslim alike. If there are certain religions which require the use of certain types of contraband for religious purposes only, they need a special license, and anyone who "converts" to that religion, will be investigated to evaluate whether it is sincere conversion or an attempt to use intoxicants, if found to be the later, then they will be sent to prison for 5 years. Black Market peddlers of substances will be sent to an internment camp for life.


Initially the Linga Franca Will be French and English, but will eventually transition into Modern Standard Arabic.

Cultures, Languages and Indigenous People will be protected under Law, and may retain their respective cultures. languages and customs, but are required to Learn , communicate and engage in commerce based upon the Linga Franca (modern Standard Arabic). Cultural Practices however that violate the standards of Islamic Morality, such as FGM, exchanging women as to amend blood feuds, will be banned and such will be banned. Ethnic-Nationalist Political Groups will be banned, Ethnic Rights groups are approved to help maintain ethnic and cultural harmony. Ethnic Nationalists who attempt to create a separatist movement will have committed high treason in much the say sectarians have, and will face a maximum penalty of capital punishment if convicted, minimum punishment is rehabilitation depending on hostility and involvement.

A Cap on Islamic Mahr will be introduced, Walwar or similar practices abolished. Wedding costs will also have a cap of 5% of Yearly Income in cases of the Middle Class, 10% in cases of wealthy, 1% in cases of the Poor.

Temporary Marriages will be strictly prohibited, as are misyar (traveler's marriage) or anything similar. Those convicted must either pay a heavy fine or bring their spouse for cohabitation.

Interethic marriages will be permitted , but will also follow the same guidelines established. Suitability will generally be determined by cultural affinities, but if all parties involved are in agreement with pursuing marriages outside of their ethnic or cultural groups, this is highly encouraged and will be accepted. Children will be defined as belonging to their paternal ethnic/cultural group as is customary


Special Endowments (wuquf/waqfa) will be established for the progress of science and technological development, scientific and technological competence will have a special priority in society as well as military fortification. A Health-Care System Waqfa


that's all I can think of for now, I'll build it up more later.

I like how half of your post was about sex ;p



and the other half was a projection of your self as a state lol.

[Alchemist]

Salam,

which system would serve the islamic world better right now? Please share your views in a respectful manner.

Sharia is not a "system" per say.
Historically, we have had Muslim rulers who implemented rule of law of Allah according to sharia but they did not necessarily have a "system" since they were mainly Monarchies and Dynasties of Rulership. The first five Caliphs were true vicegerents of Allah on Earth. Umar ibn Khatab radiallahu anhu made institutions aligned with the teachings of the Prophet peace be upon him.
To an extent the Monarchies of the Gulf State try to replicate the same but they are more racist (asabiya) than they are muslims.

You could make a valid comparison of Islamic Republics vs Secular Republics since they both have comparable systems of political governance with different end goals. Almost all nation states today follow a republic style of governorship where power is given to the majority of the people - this automatically means "secularism" since in essence secularism main goal is democratic - the protection of minorities from the majority. But we need principles to establish morals in order to know when the minority's activities can be harmful to the majority - not even early Islamic empires knew how to deal with homosexuality (gay parade in downtown ...ughh). Mostly members are giving opinion about policies - which may vary from state to state but in essence remain the same in terms of implementation - as they are all percieve it to be based on a centralized system. However, I believe the future is towards a more decentralized polynodal type of governance because we are now living in an electronic age - outside the confines of time and space that our predecessors were limited to.

Interestingly, the word government comes from the word govern - to control, and ment of latin, meaning mind - mentality hence mind control. I believe Islam to be anarchical in essence, since when the Muslim armies were set out to "free" the world from ignorance, tyranny and injustices, they were told to leave the inhabitants unharmed, the monks and the ascetics included, the buildings and infrastructure left intact - only the systems to be brought down. Later with Muwaiyya (Ummayia) and Abassid rulers the policies changed, they became dictators themselves - I guess the old saying power corrupts is true to an extent. I therefore believe that if there will be any change to the Islamic world it would only happen in the absence of any form of "governmental" system.

I am considering Voltaire's idea of an Enlightened Absolutism, which is akin to the concept of Khilafat - a Khalifa/Monarch with absolute power and only answerable to Allah - but with "enlightened" council to help him make decisions.

[randolph85]

dipping ur head into horse **** until the rest of ur body is clean and then wiping off ur face doesnt work.

hell of an analogy, ammirite?

[IamDZJ]

yeah teach your children to be traitors since we don't have any of those around. use a system only until it is of some use to you and then discard it once you are done. people should have faith in the system and if it has defects then it should be fixed not abandoned. i would rather follow a moderate state of sharia where people are not muslims because they would be stoned to death if not but because they want to be muslims. and why wouldn't they want that?

[IamDZJ]

what is "too much freedom" supposed to mean? freedom is immeasurable. you are free or you are not. it's a fundamental right. you are not giving anyone your own share. its people with the idea of granting others freedom while holding the key to the cage in their own hands who are responsible for spoiling a society. not people with "too much freedom".

[IamDZJ]

muslims don't drink because they have been given too much freedom, they do it because they don't have family values or not necessarily the same values meant for an islamic state. you have a ****ed up definition of freedom.

[graveyardofempires]

guys dont engage in discussion about Islam with a hindu ^

[Lemagak]

muslims don't drink because they have been given too much freedom, they do it because they don't have family values or not necessarily the same values meant for an islamic state. you have a ****ed up definition of freedom.

Because God says not to drink you idiot.
Because God says there are certain limits he decided moron.
Immeasurable freedom would be two people, consentin adults bein able to do whatever the f they want in a hotel room. Thats not allowed in a bunch of religions including Islam. In theory they aint hurtin no one but themselfs but they still cant do it.
A boy watchin porno in his own house theoretically aint infringin on no ones s-h-i-t but its still not allowed in religions retard.
Me takin all my cash and burnin could be my freedom, but christians and Muslims call it a sin of waste.
Gravers is right about you because you put on a Muslim front but you are just a Russian in disguise... dont worry we threw you out once... we gonna do it again.

[MostafaM]

Secularism is a system where religion is kicked out of the state matters like politics, judiciary, law enforcement, making foreign policy, making education policy, making economic policies and other social matters and so on.

That´s wrong.
You defined a laicistic system.

A secular system is a system where religion is not part of the three divisions of power of a democratic entity but is definitly part of the daily life in a sociaty.

[ScimitarXEdge]

That´s wrong.
You defined a laicistic system.

A secular system is a system where religion is not part of the three divisions of power of a democratic entity but is definitly part of the daily life in a sociaty.

the distinction here is semantical only

In French, laïcité (pronounced [la.isiˈte]) is a concept of a secular society, denoting the absence of religious involvement in government affairs as well as absence of government involvement in religious affairs.[1][2] During the twentieth century, it evolved to mean equal treatment of all religions, although a more restrictive interpretation of the term has developed since 2004.[3] Dictionaries ordinarily translate laïcité as secularity or secularism (the latter being the political system),[4] although it is sometimes rendered in English as "laicity" or "laicism".

[MostafaM]

the distinction here is semantical only

Not right.

Example:

France is a laicistic country where there is no interaction between the state and religious institutions like churches etc. There is no religion classes at schools etc.

Germany is a secular state where the federal government and the state governments always interact with the churches etc. People pay "church taxes" here through. Religion classes are organised by the churches.
And the church has a strong non-parliamentary presence in sociaty.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Not right.

Example:

France is a laicistic country where there is no interaction between the state and religious institutions like churches etc. There is no religion classes at schools etc.

Germany is a secular state where the federal government and the state governments always interact with the churches etc. People pay "church taxes" here through. Religion classes are organised by the churches.
And the church has a strong non-parliamentary presence in sociaty.

I just showed you why the distinction is semantical....ignoring evidence wont make peddling your errant understandings of things anymore valid.

Once again for your eyes

In French, laïcité (pronounced [la.isiˈte]) is a concept of a secular society, denoting the absence of religious involvement in government affairs as well as absence of government involvement in religious affairs.[1][2] During the twentieth century, it evolved to mean equal treatment of all religions, although a more restrictive interpretation of the term has developed since 2004.[3] Dictionaries ordinarily translate laïcité as secularity or secularism (the latter being the political system),[4] although it is sometimes rendered in English as "laicity" or "laicism".

Please correct your ignorances on these subjects.

[Qaddafi]

Anything thats not "Made in Arabia", If more and more Pashtuns were not silence through threats and guns...maybe more Pashtuns would defect from the rule of the Mullah and the clean shaven clerics in the west.

[Akherousin]

Since politicians throughout history have used religion time and time again to justify actions when really he or she just wanted to make certain actions difficult to speak up against due to fear of infringing upon that religion, I would have to say...secular.

Remember the quote by the charismatic, yet corrupt American president Ronald Reagan, "They say that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it has a striking resemblance to the first."