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Sharia or Secular State?

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  • #16
    a secular shari'ah state

    heh

    honestly I am an advocate of Unified Muslim Government under Islamic Measures of Social Order and Governance (i.e. Khilafah) but I believe in a Reexamination of Shari'ah Law in terms of contemporary contexts but within their original scope.

    Most people may consider my approach as being Crypto-Secular or covertly secular; I believe an Islamic System m should be mainly focused on social order, behavior, penal, family law, Socio-cultural Zeitgeist between Muslims

    But other aspects , science, economic development, technology, international affairs should remain very minimal, except in certain ethically relevant circumstances, to be influenced by Religious Ordinances, but rather practical and ethical concerns in general which are necessary to the benefit of society. This means creationist doctrines are strictly shunned from public policy or educational curriculum unless they can prove their case with strict scientific reduction.

    When it comes to dealing with other religions or religious minorities; we should approach them in a way very different than the traditional legal opinions have suggested and even overturning certain rulings, which in fact are not explicitly Stated within Islamic Texts but were implemented later on by the Early Khilafah. Non-Muslim minorities may openly practice their faith, except in cases of trying to encourage Muslims to convert to their respective faiths.. In such instances they are seen as attempt at stirring disorder, and state involvement will occur. Christians may however ring church bells, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs may have public processions in the street. their processions however should not contain elements which are expressing hostility towards Islam or Muslims, even Muslim historical figures who may have had conflicts with these respective groups. example Abdali vs. the Sikhs.

    Similarly Muslims may not do Dawa'ah to Non-Muslims; all conversions to another faith should be purely individually motivated. Dawa'ah should be restricted to Muslims who may have short comings in their religion and attempts to encourage them to be more strongly practicing. No coercive measure can be taken to make someone practice.

    The Official State Doctrine will not follow Shi'ite or Sunnite doctrines, but will be Mu'atazili. Sunnite and Shi'ite Dogmatists who attempt at stirring upheaval will be imprisoned, and depending on their degree of hostile activity, penalized with a maximum of capital punishment. This applies across the board. Sectarian Conflicts will be strictly banned. Wahhabi Literalists are accepted so long as they don't attempt to push their doctrine. Open debates and discourse between science and religion or between different religions or even between atheism and religion or between sects is accepted but the debates must follow strict guidelines of rational.

    Strong revisions regarding Women's Social Role will be re-examined and re-evaluated according to the Original Practices of Early Muslims and Islam. Women will have open access to educational facilities and job opportunities within science, politics/social governance, education, medicine, technology, legal system. Women will however not be allowed to participate in combat roles unless it is necessary by circumstance or in case of a situation in which the security of society is breached by warring group or nation and in all essence no other options are left. However, women will be required enlist in acquiring self defense training, combat training, weapons training. Women can also be police officers but they are primarily only focused on crimes dealing with female perpetrators. Men and women will be allowed to coeducate and work with each other, but their interactions will be monitored and strictly regulated.

    Islamic Modesty Codes will also be examined; Hijab/Burqa/Niqab will be permitted but not mandated, but there is a minimum standard of appropriate public attire for males and females. The standards of Lewdness will be examined from the perspectives skin/flesh allowed to be shown. Generally, things which expose the thighs, even partially are considered lewd, exposure of cleavage is lewd, tight clothing is lewd. If however there are somethings which cannot be fully concealed, this is not considered lewd, but only if adequate measures are taken to ensure they're concealed. Fines will be applied of no less than 2/3rds of monthly salary in convicted cases.

    Outward religious practices while being permitted publicly, is a private matter; So when it comes to Fasting, Praying Salaat or any Islamic Mandatory form of worship. This is not enforced by the state, but left up to the conscience of the Muslim. The hadith regarding burning someone's house down if they're not attending the jama'at, was stated in a much different circumstance than we are in, so is not applicable to us now. Anyone who attempts to coerce someone by violent methods, will be arrested for inciting fitnah. Prayers can be offered in Any Language, but state run facilities will hold prayers only in the Fusha Dialect of Arabic.

    Marriage Laws will be abided by according to Islam; a Muslim female can only marry a Muslim male and her marriage is only attainable through a cooperation of parents, familial guardianship and a state social service specifically with these matters. Elopements are illegal and will have a penalty. Approaching women for marriage will be governed through formal processes, such as a marriage service, also state operated which will attempt at coordinating between suitable spouses.

    Polygyny will be allowed but strictly controlled, a Muslim male may not marry for sexual motives exclusively, must have mutual consent of all parties, the first wife, the second or Nth and their respective guardianship and state agency. Also, problems bearing children, and helping a poorer woman financially. Marriages of this nature will also be examined based on population ratio of marriageable females. If marriageable females are equal with marriageable males, then the process of taking a second wife is revoked. A Maximum of 4 wives are permitted. Concubineship of prisoners of war is banned for whatever reason.

    Muslim males and Non-Muslim females who are from a Abrahamic Religion may marry, but their marriages will be strictly examined and determined based on motivation. If marriage is being done on the basis of the Non-Muslim females desire to convert to Islam, then this is an approved motive. If it is on basis of some unacceptable romantic interlude prior to seeking marriage this is prohibited. Similarly a Non-Muslim females parents and also a state social service agency must be employed to negotiate a marriage. If all parties concur about the felicity of pursuing marriage then the marriage will be approved. Marriage with Hindus, Sikhs or Non Abrahamic Faith followers is prohibited unless they have already converted independently.

    Sexual Needs and Sexual Health will be an important facet of society and publicly addressed. Marriage is the only acceptable sexual outlet; but because we understand the sexual need starts early, we will allow provisional marriages for youths, by which they can marry only if they fulfill requirements of a special promisary, which wiill transition them into marital and professional life when they're no longer. Although the need for sexual health is a motivating factor, it should not be the 'motive", all other marriiage rules listed will apply. Cohabitation will begin once the male spouse is professionally competent

    Physical Pornography, prostitution and lewd sexual interactions of any sort outside of marital context will be strictly prohibited. Rape will be a capital offense. People who attempt at producing pornography for whatever reason will receive capital punishment. Prostitution will be examined under much more careful examination, prostitutes coerced into the act must undergo a rehabilitation program, those who engaged in the act willingly without financial need, will receive capital penalty; "pimps" will also receive capital punishment. Fornicators will be penalized 100 lashes and banished to an internment camp. Adulterers who are married will receive capital punishment, discreetly and through special injections of highly concentrated opiates.

    Written pornography (erotic literature) or simulated pornography (cartoons, computer simulations etc etc ) which does not involve live humans, will have tolerance on the basis that it is properly licensed. Computer Simulated pornography is only permitted between married spouses as a marital aid. Public broadcast of such things will have heavy fines , up to a maximum of 2/3rds of yearly salary and all proceeds if this is being broadcasted for profit. Unmarried youths below the ages of 18 are not allowed pornographic materials. Unmarried persons above 18 are only allowed written pornography (erotic literature), also on the basis of a special license, they may not distribute copy or publicly display this material or encourage others to read the material. Those who are convicted of doing so will have their license immediately revoked and pay a fine of 1/3rd their yearly salary, if unemployed they must work for a public service until their work meets the average Income of a Standard Single adult male.

    Cases of spousal abuse and marital dischord will be examined, a spouse convicted of spousal abuse will have their marriage annulled and a fine must be paid in recompense of the abused spouse. Verbal abuse is also not tolerated, but a state social worker will intervene in attempt to resolve the marriage, if this fails then marriage will be dissolved and a divorce issued.



    Belief too will be a private matter, even if the Offiicial State Doctrine acknowledges Tawhid. If someone is outwardly Muslim, but inwardly absent of belief in God, he/she shall be left alone so long as he/she does not try to stir immorality or violate the moral code of the society or behave with hostility to the doctrinal belief; this does not include disagreement on intellectual grounds which will actually be promoted and encouraged in society. If someone converts from Islam, there is no persecution, unless they attempt to overturn the order of society and sow immorality/dischord etc. However, depending on when it is a male/female their relationship to their Muslim spouse will be terminated, and they are no longer allowed to cohabit with one another. Sexual relations between them will be considered sexual immorality and penalized similarly.

    There will be a strict ban and restriction on alcohol or other intoxicating substances. This includes marijuana, naswar, qat or other considerably innocuous forms This will apply to everyone, Muslim and Non-Muslim alike. If there are certain religions which require the use of certain types of contraband for religious purposes only, they need a special license, and anyone who "converts" to that religion, will be investigated to evaluate whether it is sincere conversion or an attempt to use intoxicants, if found to be the later, then they will be sent to prison for 5 years. Black Market peddlers of substances will be sent to an internment camp for life.


    Initially the Linga Franca Will be French and English, but will eventually transition into Modern Standard Arabic.

    Cultures, Languages and Indigenous People will be protected under Law, and may retain their respective cultures. languages and customs, but are required to Learn , communicate and engage in commerce based upon the Linga Franca (modern Standard Arabic). Cultural Practices however that violate the standards of Islamic Morality, such as FGM, exchanging women as to amend blood feuds, will be banned and such will be banned. Ethnic-Nationalist Political Groups will be banned, Ethnic Rights groups are approved to help maintain ethnic and cultural harmony. Ethnic Nationalists who attempt to create a separatist movement will have committed high treason in much the say sectarians have, and will face a maximum penalty of capital punishment if convicted, minimum punishment is rehabilitation depending on hostility and involvement.

    A Cap on Islamic Mahr will be introduced, Walwar or similar practices abolished. Wedding costs will also have a cap of 5% of Yearly Income in cases of the Middle Class, 10% in cases of wealthy, 1% in cases of the Poor.

    Temporary Marriages will be strictly prohibited, as are misyar (traveler's marriage) or anything similar. Those convicted must either pay a heavy fine or bring their spouse for cohabitation.

    Interethic marriages will be permitted , but will also follow the same guidelines established. Suitability will generally be determined by cultural affinities, but if all parties involved are in agreement with pursuing marriages outside of their ethnic or cultural groups, this is highly encouraged and will be accepted. Children will be defined as belonging to their paternal ethnic/cultural group as is customary


    Special Endowments (wuquf/waqfa) will be established for the progress of science and technological development, scientific and technological competence will have a special priority in society as well as military fortification. A Health-Care System Waqfa


    that's all I can think of for now, I'll build it up more later.
    Last edited by ScimitarXEdge; 07-02-2011, 07:33 PM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Amir al Ghaznavi View Post
      this is why the Islamic world is such a rape victim. this is why our societies are so useless and garbage. you keep thinking this way, while your Islamic society keeps gettin punked.

      but then again, this world doesnt matter right, its the hereafter that does? People for whom this world is not a priority should not exist in this world, since they make no contributions to it.

      i declare you worthy of being killed, not because im an insecure emotional woman who doesnt like a disagreeable opinion, but because your existence on earth is so very unnecessary

      let me know when you guys are ready to do something about your resources being stolen, your people killed, your identities destroyed and your women molested. as long as archaic thinking is still promoted,ill know yall are not ready/
      Not to be cliche, but it's because Muslims are not implementing Islam as it was intended to be applied; We're bogged down heavily by a cartel of Shaikhs, rather than Islam itself.

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      • #18
        Schimiter! Are you shia advocating for the provisional marriage in other words mauta ???
        I thought you have some constructive approach to religions but your thoughts are really destructive. It will no doubt destroy our social and family system.

        Comment


        • #19
          No, temporary marriage means the marriage is terminated after a certain time, Provsional marriage is permanent marriage but no cohabitation has begun yet because the parties are not yet reaching an age where they can live independently of their guardians.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View Post
            No, temporary marriage means the marriage is terminated after a certain time, Provsional marriage is permanent marriage but no cohabitation has begun yet because the parties are not yet reaching an age where they can live independently of their guardians.
            This is practically not possible.

            Comment


            • #21
              Hasanullah,
              How can you ask such a question with a name like yours ?!!

              Seriously, though, it should be obvious that secularism is the road to Hell,
              in very short order.

              Good comments by Haris, emkhan etc.

              What does the term waajibul qatal mentioned above mean ?

              Scimitar some of your ideas sound great.
              I especially like that section on intoxicating substances banned for
              everyone, sent to internment camps if indulge against the law.

              I haven't read all of the paragraphs yet -- but question stands out:
              why no Dawa ????

              How does that hurt anyone?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by emkhan View Post
                This is practically not possible.
                why not?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Catya Sher View Post
                  Hasanullah,
                  How can you ask such a question with a name like yours ?!!

                  Seriously, though, it should be obvious that secularism is the road to Hell,
                  in very short order.

                  Good comments by Haris, emkhan etc.

                  What does the term waajibul qatal mentioned above mean ?

                  Scimitar some of your ideas sound great.
                  I especially like that section on intoxicating substances banned for
                  everyone, sent to internment camps if indulge against the law.

                  I haven't read all of the paragraphs yet -- but question stands out:
                  why no Dawa ????

                  How does that hurt anyone?


                  wajibul qatal necessity to fight?


                  daw'ah produces stigma between peoples, especially if the other side can't "daw'ah" back.

                  so no daw'ah for anyone.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View Post
                    why not?
                    Who will stop them from being together once they get married ?
                    and your points on pornography are not in accordance with Islamic teachings, You are giving room for pornography to a certain age limit though Islam puts full ban on pornography in any form to anyone.
                    I have not read the full post though Lol.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View Post
                      wajibul qatal necessity to fight?


                      daw'ah produces stigma between peoples, especially if the other side can't "daw'ah" back.

                      so no daw'ah for anyone.
                      wajibul qatal means when it becomes obligatory to kill someone for something

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                      • #26
                        ^ Ah, I get it, thanks !

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I dont buy Scimitar's argument on the dawa.
                          I think it should not be a threat to anyone who

                          is secure in their belief systems.
                          I'm going to read the rest because he wrote interesting points to consider.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View Post
                            wajibul qatal necessity to fight?


                            daw'ah produces stigma between peoples, especially if the other side can't "daw'ah" back.

                            so no daw'ah for anyone.
                            Dawa is very important to spread the message and educate people

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by emkhan View Post
                              Who will stop them from being together once they get married ?
                              and your points on pornography are not in accordance with Islamic teachings, You are giving room for pornography to a certain age limit though Islam puts full ban on pornography in any form to anyone.
                              I have not read the full post though Lol.
                              This isn't true; There's a book called "The Perfumed Garden" which is an erotic literature which existed under the Andalusian Khilafah, it acted as a maritale aid.

                              That's exactly why they're allowed to get married, so they won't engage in extra marital activities.

                              It's not supposed to stop them, it's supposed to encourage them.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Catya Sher View Post
                                I dont buy Scimitar's argument on the dawa.
                                I think it should not be a threat to anyone who

                                is secure in their belief systems.
                                I'm going to read the rest because he wrote interesting points to consider.


                                Then we should allow Christians and Hindus and Jews to Daw'ah too then

                                Comment

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