Evolution contradicts Islam

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

Fahd, go and study evolution or attend a biology class before you criticise it.

[Alchemist]

MounTainGoat .....notice that he hides under shields of declaring people heretics and skeeting your question. Because he knows he's going to be laughed at

he's adopted Christian Aqidah of flat earth.

You are trying to create a strawman by saying that I believe that the planet is flat and not an orb so as to mock me as a fool. But do you honestly believe that this is what I said? When I explained to you in plain english that what we comprehend of the verse is actually not the same as what Allah has said. And the proof was given to you that ard is this dimension of existence . Surely there aren't fireballs chasing the shaiteen away at the fringes of this universe?

If anyone has adopted a heretical aqidah - it is you. Because you deny the virginity of Issa's mother and adopted the israelie aqida pertaining to her. And you adopted the western beleive that man evolved from prime apes.

So stop twisting what I said just because I have exposed you as a heretic.

ah because a fake Nationalist believes in evolution ....that means a person believing evolution is heretical.

I guess because Taliban murderers and and suicide bombers believe in Islam, Islam is an irrational corrupt religion according to your logic

so many logical fallacies in almost every argument you make.

No, actually you have lost all sense of logic my friend.
You are still flustered because your confusion has been exposed. All your rambling nonsense about a spiritual prototypical, archytypal "first man" to make up for your materialistic views have exposed you as one who has flipped the Qur'anic ayats on it's back.

He is an ultra nationalist what makes you think he is a fake? Where is the logic in calling him fake? You are just now shooting labels left and right like some hurt victim who needs to project his guilt on to others. If anyone is a fake nationalist, its you Scimitar.
An ultranationalist is a self deceived man who think he knows what is best in the interest of the nation. Like a hitler or a stalin, he will make enemies of the neighboring countries and turn inwards in search of the true "national character" where all else must be like minded like him or executed.
You are deceiving your self by thinking that you know more than the Ulama of deen and so reject all the mufasseeren and muhaditheen and crowning your self as the Know-it-All. When in fact you know very little.

No you're believing a tafsir ABOUT the Ayats and by such equating human words to Allah(swt). You're a fool for believing that someone's ta'wil is believing in the Qur'an. As for the ahadith, ahadith are ALSO metaphoric. It's symbolic of levels of reality. It has nothing to do with the Earth's shape.

That is what I said you moron. Go read my post over again.
Except I never said "symbolic" but it is actual. That Samawat are heavenly dimensions and "Asfalal Safeleen" is "Ard" and according to the ahadith, there are 7 ards, and each one is expanding and separate, extending down to hell, the highest level being Janatul Ferdows.

So if anyone is a moron, daft and a goof... its you buddy. Because you are trying too hard to mock me to redeem your self after getting exposed as a heretic. Nice try. But only you and mountain goat have to reinforce each others delusions now because you both share that pain.

Plus your own scholars totally shun your view.
read this fatwa on the issue; the verses you think mean the Earth is flat is actually saying the Earth is leveled.

http://en.islamtoday.net/node/667

Read and be enlightened

First of all Kid.
That is not a fatwa.
Secondly, if it was just about the earth being leveled, then all of the planets are leveled and flat.
Thirdly even the mufaseerin said that the earth is flat in the sense that it is leveled off...none of them made the claim that the shape of the planet is flat. But you are so duped and misguided that you wish to attribute a false assertion to them in order to reject them and claim your self as more rightly guided. Jalalalyn lived in the 15 Century, by then it was commonly accepted that the earth is a globe, so it wasn't that he lived before the days of Columbus and wasn't aware. Al Biruni had already calculated the radius of the Earth in the 10th Century! In the 9th Century Khalifa Al -Ma'mun's astronmers had already measured the CIRCUMFERENCE of the earth to 24,000 miles.
If anyone is a fool and ignoramus...it's you!

You are so full of yourself...so proud ... that you feel duped and cheated for getting exposed like this.

Cut the crap kid.

look to Nature, all the mysteries of the Qur'an are explained through it. Nature is the Ultimate Tafsir.

No power hungry desperate Shaikh needed.

Any fool with eyes can look.

Observation is a skill that requires years of training.
You are more of an expert at looking at your computer. Leave the Nature observation to those specialized to it. And leave the tafseer of the Quran to those specialized to it.
No alim has ever been "hungry" or desperate". You are the Ulama of our deen when the holy Prophet peace be upon him had instructed us to follow those who know... do you think you are the one who knows when you can't even interpret the muffaseeren...let alone the Qur'an?
Come back to reality. You are over estimating yourself. As usual. Mr. Nobel Laureate.

that's not entirely true; the Mu'taziliyeen were Muslim scholars who were open to science and they saw a relationship between natural knowledge and divine knowledge. The idea of visualizing Angels is not in the scope of logic, it's a super natural issue which has no current scientific opinion. Evolution of course is an issue science has a well supported opinion on and those who reject it are not doing so because the Qur'an itself denies evolution; but the dogma of CERTAIN scholars who were not favoring any reference to natural knowledge.


by the way , don't speak about logic; so many Logical Fallacies in your argument it's almost as if you have no understanding of what logic even is.

LOL

Just because you read some wikipedia pages on logic doesn't mean that you are now a logician!

Yet another Absurd argument from you!

"Angels can't be visualized" LOL

OK! First of all...what on God's green earth are you talking about?

You are just saying Mut'zali were this or that but you don't even know what Muslims were! You don't even know simple concepts in Islam which is why you shoot your mouth like that. What are you implying here anyway? That Sunni and Shia scholars were claiming to see Angels? Absurd! You have lost your mind.

The angels can show themselves to whom they want in special circumstances. It is written in the Qur'an that Angels have shown themselves to some in times before. In Babylon came Harut and Marut...just an example.

You are so materialistic! That for you it must be difficult to digest this as truth! Perhaps this is even the first time you are getting confronted with this information! And maybe this is too much to bear. So I predict more animosity towards the messenger.

here is my challenge to you, goat's uncle, produce for me ONE mut'azali source that backs up any of your HERETICAL claims!

Yeah I know that's why he didn't want to answer yes or no.

Hmm, I'm thinking he might be influenced by Mohammed_Yusuf and his Boko Haram group.

And who are you influenced by Goat?
Darwin?

As the Christian Bishop Burnet said many hundreds of years ago:

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

- Alexander Pope

[Alchemist]

Fahd, go and study evolution or attend a biology class before you criticise it.

take your own advice bud.

[ScimitarXEdge]

LOL Alchemist, who are you trying to convince here, you are us?

and yes it is a fatwa, this website is run by Salman Al Awdah.

[Alchemist]

LOL Alchemist, who are you trying to convince here, you are us?

and yes it is a fatwa, this website is run by Salman Al Awdah.

who is this "us"?

You have some following now? Who do you think you are? Sheikh Scimitar?

Go back to your link ..it says it was written by "The Scientific Research Committee".

Maybe that is why it is considered a Fatwa by you?

You should be more careful how you word your posts.

[ScimitarXEdge]

who is this "us"?

You have some following now? Who do you think you are? Sheikh Scimitar?

Go back to your link ..it says it was written by "The Scientific Research Committee".

Maybe that is why it is considered a Fatwa by you?

You should be more careful how you word your posts.

Do you know who overruns ALL questions on that website? Shaikh Salman Al-Awdah.

stop drawing straw, you know this is a fatwa, it was approved by Shaikh Al-Awdah as a fatwa on the issue. Meaning that he ratified this as a legitimate ruling.

a fatwa is scholarly ruling

You're so brainwashed you're in denial even when other Islamic Scholars are essentially calling you a moron.

[Alchemist]

Do you know who overruns ALL questions on that website? Shaikh Salman Al-Awdah.

stop drawing straw, you know this is a fatwa, it was approved by Shaikh Al-Awdah as a fatwa on the issue. Meaning that he ratified this as a legitimate ruling.

a fatwa is scholarly ruling

You're so brainwashed you're in denial even when other Islamic Scholars are essentially calling you a moron.

Yes, Fatwa is an Islamic scholarly ruling.

If all questions on the website are "overrun" by Salman Al-Awdah, why does it say "This question is answered by The Scientific Research Committee".

You are the moron because you are claiming that any answer to any question on Islamtoday.net is a Fatwa.

If you weren't a moron you would have checked other answers on the Web.
You will notice that other answers have the name of A Sheikh. For example,

Question

Are Christian and Jewish lay people the same as their clergy and religious scholars? Are they also unbelievers, even though they are People of the Book and do not have the knowledge that their religious leaders have? Are they condemned to Hell for their not believing in Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)?




Answered by

Sheikh Khâlid al-Sayf, professor at al-Imâm University




Ever since Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent with the Message, all people who do not believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is God's Messenger to all humanity are classified as unbelievers with respect how they a

The one you quoted for me:

Question

My question is about the Arabic word dahâ, which according to the translations I have read means "to spread out" or "a vast expanse". A prominent caller to Islam has recently suggested the meaning "egg" or "ostrich egg" for the same word. He says that the Qur'an teaches us the Earth is egg-shaped and goes further to say that this claim is supported by science. Is there a possibility that this word dahâ could mean "egg" or "shaped like an egg" based on its root? I would very much appreciate a response, as this caller to Islam is someone whom we regularly invite to our country to speak, and many have accepted Islam at his hands. Recently, he has been under attack by for translating the Arabic word dahâ to mean "egg-shaped". Also, please could you explain if there is any possibility that the word dahâ could mean "egg-shaped" or something similar?




Answered by

the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net




The word in question is the verb (dahâ). This verb comes from the tri-literal root d-h-w, and it appears in the Qur’ân in relation to the Earth in the following verse: “And the Earth, after that, He spread out (dahâhâ).” [Sûrah al-Nâzi`ât: 30]

This word conveys one concept in the Arabic language: that of “spreading, leveling, flattening, and smoothing out”. Allah mentions this to us in the verse to show us something of his providence to us. He explains what he means by stretching the Earth out and smoothing it out in the following verses: “He brought forth from it its water and its pasturage, and He made the mountains firmly fixed.” [Sûrah al-Nâzi`ât : 31-32]

Take some deep breaths. Relax.
And go review your beliefs with a real Alim of Deen.
And stop being in denial. OK?

Or go study for your test and stop grasping for straws.

[Alchemist]

No your brainwashed literalists say that

us More Enlightened True Defenders of Tawhid, the Mu'taziliyeen know better. Nabi(saw) was the living Qur'an, not the physical manifestation of the Qur'an. Meaning he lived according to the Qur'an; the Qur'an is inscribed in the way the Natural Order works, and hence Nature becomes the Physical Manifestation of the Qur'an since it physically embodies the hidden realities alluded to in the Qur'an about nature.


You're a little child "no I not, you are"l it's plain for all to see the reason you won't give Mountain Goat a straight reply is because you're in a catch 22.

If you believe the Earth is flat, you prove to be a deluded brainwashed ignoramus, there is undeniable verifiable undisputed evidence that it is spheroidal (or even ellipsoidal depending on what interpretation you use)

If you reject the Earth is flat, it opens the door for the Ulema' who you have taken to be God himself, and idoliize like an Hindu idolizes idols, are wrong and that means they could be wrong about other things, including the Ta'wil regarding whether or not Clay Adam is metaphoric or literal. Which thus unravels your entire platform.

I know the dilemma you're going through. I went through it too when I was a Literalist. But I realized God is Truth, so whatever is the Truth is from God. And thus I embraced truth and rejected people who spoke false ideas, even if they claimed to be servants of God.

maybe one day you'll wake up.

Look who is pulling the straw man. Our discussion was on evolution. You brought it up to Mujib that Mufaseern believed the world is flat. He and I tried to explain it to you that the verse can have several meanings and it was never meant as "the planet is not round". But you are making a strawman - "Oh alchemist is a moron, he thinks the globe is flat"...I am not in a catch 22. You two imbeciles are trying too hard with this strawman twist to our argument.

All this rubbish about "I used to be misguided and now I am Enlightened" is a delusion it self.

If anyone is in a catch 22 it is you.

Look at the stupid argument you are making:

Nabi(saw) was the living Qur'an, not the physical manifestation of the Qur'an. Meaning he lived according to the Qur'an;

vs

Nature becomes the Physical Manifestation of the Qur'an since it physically embodies the hidden realities alluded to in the Qur'an about nature.

Nabi embodies the Quran

Vs

Nature embodies the Qur'an.


It's ok. Like Mountain Goat. You will have a hard time adjusting to new information. First you will go into denial. Then Anger (like now). Then Bargaining (which you saw goat do). Then Depression (which he is going through right now). And if Allah wills...Acceptance.


Allah tells us in the Qur'an to look the creation and our selves and reflect on all the Na3ma that He has bestowed us with. The Holy Prophet peace be upon him was constantly in the Zikr of Allah. And what is the Qur'an? Zikr


You are putting "Nature" on the same rank of the Qur'an?


Produce one Source from any Mutazalee Scholar that backs this claim of yours up!

This is my challenge to you!

Because I assure you..that you are not even a Mutazali at this point!

You have adopted the language of the Westerners.
What would be the arabic of Nature?
"tabi3a"?
Natural?

LOL

Seriously?


You will fail at it!
I guarantee it!

You are the moron. Stop being one and come back to the RIGHT path.

Stop claiming that the Qur'an is "allegorical" and that nature is reality. Allah says: 2:26

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَسْتَحْيِي أَن يَضْرِبَ مَثَلاً مَّا بَعُوضَةً فَمَا فَوْقَهَا فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ فَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ فَيَقُولُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَـذَا مَثَلاً يُضِلُّ بِهِ كَثِيراً وَيَهْدِي بِهِ كَثِيراً وَمَا يُضِلُّ بِهِ إِلاَّ الْفَاسِقِينَ (2:26)

Mathalee Isa 3inadallahai Ka Mathalee Adam, khalaqahu min Turab Suma qala lahu fayakooon.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Yes, Fatwa is an Islamic scholarly ruling.

If all questions on the website are "overrun" by Salman Al-Awdah, why does it say "This question is answered by The Scientific Research Committee".

because ignoramus, it's more than one person who does compiles the material and Al-Awdah gives his stamp of approval that this is a ruling he endorses and is in line with his understanding.

You are the moron because you are claiming that any answer to any question on Islamtoday.net is a Fatwa.

It is...that's why it's there.

If you weren't a moron you would have checked other answers on the Web.
You will notice that other answers have the name of A Sheikh. For example,

The one you quoted for me:

Take some deep breaths. Relax.
And go review your beliefs with a real Alim of Deen.
And stop being in denial. OK?

Or go study for your test and stop grasping for straws.

So what? That doesn't mean that the name of a Shaikh indicates that Al-Awdah does not fact check other stuff and gives his stamp of approval. You're making false dichotomies again. You assume that something being a Conglomerate effort can't be a fatwa.

[Alchemist]

Stop trying to fool your self. It isn't a "fatwa" and don't assume that it is one just because it is on that website which I haven't even been on before. Put that Strawman down.

The more I think about this...the more clear it becomes that you have committed a great sin. But you have done this out of Jahiliya so it is not too late for you to drop this nonsensical statement "Nature is the Physical Manifestation of Qur'an". You are coming up with something that you have adopted from the culture that you are imbued in. It is common for a westerner to venerate and praise Nature...indeed they always say "Nature has blessed us with this or that"..."Mother Nature is in a bad mood" when describing bad weather. You have taken up that mentality and are trying to apply it to Islam.

If anything, Qur'an is the manifestation of Allah.
You won't be far from the Pantheist who, auzubillah, say that Nature is the Manifestation of Allah.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Look who is pulling the straw man. Our discussion was on evolution. You brought it up to Mujib that Mufaseern believed the world is flat. He and I tried to explain it to you that the verse can have several meanings and it was never meant as "the planet is not round". But you are making a strawman - "Oh alchemist is a moron, he thinks the globe is flat"...I am not in a catch 22. You two imbeciles are trying too hard with this strawman twist to our argument.

All this rubbish about "I used to be misguided and now I am Enlightened" is a delusion it self.

If anyone is in a catch 22 it is you.

Your counter responses are essentially the childish "no I am not , you are"

I have no contradictions in my beliefs, I have sufficiently verified them. Without using any man-made corruptions. Like scientifically ignorant individuals.

You're filled with the conflict of what to believe, something you can prove by evidence or something you have to follow to have membership of a man-made clique , which exploits the name of Islam for itself.

Look at the stupid argument you are making:

vs

Nabi embodies the Quran

Vs


Nature embodies the Qur'an.

What's stupid is your shallow understanding of Islam, brainwashed by Man-Made Ideas. Hence you make this false dichotomy

Nature is the Physical Embodiment of the Qur'an

Muhammad(saw) is the LIVING embodiment of the Qur'an; meaning in terms of his lifestyle his ways and actions conformed to Nature.




Allah tells us in the Qur'an to look the creation and our selves and reflect on all the Na3ma that He has bestowed us with. The Holy Prophet peace be upon him was constantly in the Zikr of Allah. And what is the Qur'an? Zikr

You are putting "Nature" on the same rank of the Qur'an?


Produce one Source from any Mutazalee Scholar that backs this claim of yours up!

This is my challenge to you!

Because I assure you..that you are not even a Mutazali at this point!

You have adopted the language of the Westerners.
What would be the arabic of Nature?
"tabi3a"?
Natural?

So you're saying Westerners created Nature? That Nature is not an expression of God?

Shirk!

na3zubillah you strive so hard to justify blind following.


Here's scholars who say that the Qur'an is created and hence a Natural Thing.

http://www.rationalist.com.au/archive/62/p27-34.pdf

LOL

Seriously?

You will fail at it!
I guarantee it!

You are the moron. Stop being one and come back to the RIGHT path.

Apparently to you, being brainwashed by man made ideas, is the right path.

Nature is uncontaminated by Man, and hence would logically be more reflective of Allah(swt) than your Ta'wil.

Stop claiming that the Qur'an is "allegorical" and that nature is reality. Allah says: 2:26

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَسْتَحْيِي أَن يَضْرِبَ مَثَلاً مَّا بَعُوضَةً فَمَا فَوْقَهَا فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ فَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ فَيَقُولُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَـذَا مَثَلاً يُضِلُّ بِهِ كَثِيراً وَيَهْدِي بِهِ كَثِيراً وَمَا يُضِلُّ بِهِ إِلاَّ الْفَاسِقِينَ (2:26)

Mathalee Isa 3inadallahai Ka Mathalee Adam, khalaqahu min Turab Suma qala lahu fayakooon.

I'm a Mu'tazilah, things which are not befitting of Tawhid we recognize as allegorical.

Oh NOOOOOW you want to focus on the evolution debate. You're so arbitrary; Switching Goal Posts whenever it's functional for you.


If you knew anything about Mu'taziliyeen, you're know that we don't believe the Qur'an is eternal, but it was created by Allah(swt) the same way Nature was

For the Qur'an to be eternal that means it co-existed with Allah(swt) which is shirk

The right path isnt the one made up by peoples arbitrary opinions. It's based on truth, if Nature isn't reality then how did it exist? Are you assuming something other than God authored Nature? How can Nature not be the same level as the Qur'an if God organized and "designed" nature the same way he did the Qur'an?

SHIRK! ...look who turned out to be the real heretic? Alchemist.

[ScimitarXEdge]

.

If anything, Qur'an is the manifestation of Allah.
You won't be far from the Pantheist who, auzubillah, say that Nature is the Manifestation of Allah.

Na2udhubillah so God is the words he created?

You've lost your mind, all out of pride of having to avoid admitting your errors.

[Alchemist]

enaa

running in circles brah...that's all you are doing.

Before I even respond to all your gibberish ..like how you verified everything ...against your self ..and how I am scientifically ignorant and you end up patting your self on the back for a job well done...


Just do me a favour


Define what you mean by this word "Nature"

[ScimitarXEdge]

enaa

running in circles brah...that's all you are doing.

Before I even respond to all your gibberish ..like how you verified everything ...against your self ..and how I am scientifically ignorant and you end up patting your self on the back for a job well done...


Just do me a favour


Define what you mean by this word "Nature"

The things which Allah(swt) has formed by the Dictates of Allah to Govern His Universe.

[ScimitarXEdge]

enaa

running in circles brah...that's all you are doing.

Before I even respond to all your gibberish ..like how you verified everything ...against your self ..and how I am scientifically ignorant and you end up patting your self on the back for a job well done...


Just do me a favour


Define what you mean by this word "Nature"

Nah "brah" your brain can only comprehend thinking in circles; .....I mean that's pretty much what the Tafsirs you base your opinion are ."the Earth is flat because the Mufassireen say so, how do they know that? because the Qur'an says so, how do they know the Qur'an says so? because the Mufasireen say so."

hahhaa